[NeXTLoop]

Mozilla.org just announced the biggest change in their long-term roadmap since the 1.0 release. Basically, Mozilla 1.4 will be the last milestone of the "Mozilla suite" of programs, in favor of focusing on Phoenix, with Minotaur as a complimenting email program. Here's from Mozillazine.org...

"In the most radical change to the Mozilla project since the late 1998 decision to rewrite much of the code, mozilla.org today announced a major new roadmap proposal that will see Phoenix and Thunderbird (also known as Minotaur) becoming the focus of future development. According to the roadmap, 1.4 is likely to be the last milestone of the traditional Mozilla suite and the 1.4 branch will replace the 1.0 branch as the stable development path. mozilla.org is also proposing changes to the module ownership model including a move towards stronger leadership and the removal of mandatory super-review in some cases. Please click the Full Article link to read the full analysis."


If you want to read the roadmap, click here...


On advantage of this approach is that Mac OS X users will see daily and milestone builds of Phoenix, just as we've had daily and milestone builds of Mozilla.

[Adam Betts]

What is so special about Phoenix?

[decursive]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
What is so special about Phoenix?

It's a hundered times better (edit: than mozilla). It is more focused, and far more light, clean, and efficient. It was even coded by the people that helped create the laguage (XUL). And it has great features like pop-up white listing built in.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally posted by decursive:
It's a hundered times better (edit: than mozilla). It is more focused, and far more light, clean, and efficient. It was even coded by the people that helped create the laguage (XUL). And it has great features like pop-up white listing built in.

In other words it is trying to take out the bloated crap that Netscape 7 is and try to make is be as clean as safari some day.

Thanks, but I can use Safari today.

[derekn]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
What is so special about Phoenix?

http://www.kmgerich.com/misc.html

You can try that and see for yourself. Just keep in mind that that is NOT an official build or Mozilla project. It'll give you an idea of what to expect though.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by derekn:
http://www.kmgerich.com/misc.html

You can try that and see for yourself. Just keep in mind that that is NOT an official build or Mozilla project. It'll give you an idea of what to expect though.

Ok, another question: How is Phoenix better than Camino?

[Gul Banana]

The big difference, for people who aren't us: it's cross-platform.

[pliny]

This *is* good news. The Mozilla project will become more modular, which should allow for easier development. The apps will have a smaller footprint. Once the shift is made to Phoenix we'll see immediate improvements to the UI (not to mention we'll be able to use many good themes). The advantage of this for Mac users over, say, Safari, is having a lean, Gecko based browser that renders and accesses pages very reliably--an area where Safari still lags. The advantage over Camino is an accelerated development cycle, a rendering engine that is faster and more stable, and a superior UI.

Just as interesting perhaps is the changes made to the Mozilla development process itself. The organization is being streamlined, project managers will be responsible for modules and this will aid commercial use of the resources.

I think we can say we see an Apple/Safari influence on this new roadmap. (Dave Hyatt coauthored the new roadmap.) Perhaps we can even say that Apple is playing a good role in an important area of open source development.

This is good for open source software, good for Mozilla and good for browsing, esp. for browsing on the Mac.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by pliny:
...and a superior UI.

You think that Phoenix's fake/skinned/bloated GUI is superior over Camino's real GUI?

You gotta be kidding

[pliny]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
You think that Phoenix's fake/skinned/bloated GUI is superior over Camino's real GUI?

You gotta be kidding

Heh heh, no, I'm serious! One of the things I *don't* like about Camino is the UI. It's hard on the eyes (cpac convinced me the reason is because of the blue on bright white style) and is limited. Cookie management is not there. No search bar or integrated url search. The sidebar is there but is somewhat slow. The Phoenix sidebar is pretty good, it has a history/boookmark/download interface somewhat like Explorer's, so everything is easily read and available, and it's responsive.

The Phoenix browser is very slim (about 6 mgs, comparable to Safari) and is extensible, so new functions can be added easily and as you like, per user, keeping the code base small and light. And, it's very compliant and *fast*. Adapting all these things for Mozilla, is very good.

Phoenix has alot of themes which I guess will be available for Moz, once Moz becomes Phoenix/Phoenix becomes Moz.

I don't like the XP Phoenix theme but I do like the minimalist look of the Mac Phoenix port. The Phoenix people seem to enjoy the look and feel of the MacOS, there are several MacOS-like themes. Take a look at this Safari themed Phoenix window,the theme is called SS Graphite.




(There are many more at this place and Mozilla ).

For people who like to design UI stuff on and for the Mac, Phoenix/Moz will be just once more place where it can be done.

[Adam Betts]

The problem is that I very much dislike "MacOS-like theme". I prefer it to use real elements like Safari.

Mozilla is like Michael Jackson's face

[mitchell_pgh]

I think they saw what Apple was doing with Safari and knew that they couldn't continue releasing the same ugly old bloated piece of software.

Then again, Mozilla is a cross platform project... it's not like they think about OS X 24/7... I would love to see Mozilla become a great Windows/Linux/Mac application, but as it stands now, hardly anyone uses the application due to speed alone.

[gorickey]

So what bearing does this news have on Camino's roadmap, if any?

Thanks.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by gorickey:
So what bearing does this news have on Camino's roadmap, if any?

Thanks.

Since Camino & Phoenix used to be the same idea but stayed out of each others market (OS X vs everything else) I suppose this will kill Camino. Or it might just change out the guts again and use the phoenix guts and continue to keep a native front end.

I hope they keep going, I really love it even a little more then phoenix.

[pliny]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
The problem is that I very much dislike "MacOS-like theme". I prefer it to use real elements like Safari.

Mozilla is like Michael Jackson's face.

Oh I got you.
Yeah there's no comparison to a native element. This is why Omniweb is my default. (obligatory: where the hell is Omniweb 5?)

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:

I think they saw what Apple was doing with Safari and knew that they couldn't continue releasing the same ugly old bloated piece of software.

Yeah I agree. The new plan has Hyatt's fingerprints on it, which is good IMO.

Originally posted by gorickey:
So what bearing does this news have on Camino's roadmap, if any?

Thanks.

I wonder about this too, because (1) Camino has just absorbed the changes that produced 1.4 (and this is partly why the Camino nightlies are buggier), and now 1.4 will be frozen pretty soon, because the roadmap envisions the new Phoenix-ish Moz sometime in mid-May; and (2) Moz could have morphed into a Caminoish project, but it's morphing into a Phoenix-ish one.

[step]

i'm kinda interested what they'll do with composer and mail actually. As much as i adore apple mail it's still pretty basic, with deep features either elusive (bcc) or inaccessible ( choosing base64 over apple double)
and y'know free stuff is cool!

[cpac]

Originally posted by pliny:
Heh heh, no, I'm serious! One of the things I *don't* like about Camino is the UI. It's hard on the eyes (cpac convinced me the reason is because of the blue on bright white style)

It still bugs me, but the nightlies have been getting better.

OW still has the best UI in that respect, and I personally would still prefer that they just fix the Camino widgets rather than dealing with themes etc. in Phoenix.

[bmedina]

They explicitely mention in the road map that Camino development will continue. The two products (Camino and Phoenix) have different roles.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by bmedina:
They explicitely mention in the road map that Camino development will continue. The two products (Camino and Phoenix) have different roles.

Yep, I just saw that as well...that's GOOD news.

[voodoo]

Wow the Firebird is Windowsish.

I don't think it is faster than Safari or Mozilla. I'll stick to the Safari/Mozilla combo for my browsing needs for now. I just can't stand the look & feel of Firebird. <shudder>