[WinTroll]

I am about to purchase my first Apple Laptop (already own an eMac). I am a "mixer" (still using both PC and MAC).

I put my palms on one at CompUSA today and that was frelling HOT!

I do not understand Apple Users accepting that intense level of heat, yet whining about the minor, minor noise of a fan (which, btw, would probably resolve the heat issue).

First, the heat is caused by the hard drive under the left palm rest.

Second, the hard drive is always spinning even when idle (no reads or writes) and therefore generates heat.

Third, the hard drive can be used extensively causing even more heat.

Fourth, you can put the hard drive to sleep when idle, which means the heat diminishes until the hard drive is brought back to life.

Fifth, deleting the .xml file (infamous hack on this website forum) probably resets the fan and hard drive power management settings to something that reduces the heat.

Updating to OSX 10.2.5 probably included some Apple changes to effect this.

Hard drives produce heat. No way around that now. But the fan can reduce that heat immeasurably.

I am all set to put the trigger on buying one this weekend. BUT, the heat thing (along with warping, paint chipping/peeling, etc) is bothering me.

Granted CompUSA leaves the PC's on forever but the place is mega air conditioned. I don't know what version of OSX it was running though. In fact, I may go back and play with the settings in the morning and return hours later to see if they really make a difference.

What are everyones experiences with the heat issue? Did the .xml deletion and/or OSX update to 10.2.5 relieve the heat issue? I know it will always be warm, I can live with that, but not HOT (such that placing my palms on it causes discomfort.....and I have a high-tolerance for pain, but that heat was ridiculous!).

Your thoughts?

[AssassyN]

You probably just got your hands on one of the really extreme heat-expelling 12" AlBooks. That's been a slightly common issue among the first batch of 12" AlBooks, and not all of them get that hot. Those that are so hot it hurts aren't normal, and most of them just get slightly warm to decently warm under hard usage. I wouldn't worry about it a bit...yeah, the 12" AlBooks do have some heat issues and some users have noted warping issues, but those problems are honestly far and few between in the midst of how many are sold that don't have these problems. I'd advise you to pick one up...the chances that yours will be extremely hot like that are slim, and I'm sure you'll love the machine.

[eevyl]

Well, I found that my G4 12" is more hot when these three situations happen at once:

1. The battery is rechargin.

2. A CD or DVD is in the drive and spinning.

3. The CPU and the GPU are working at full speed.

Usually this happens when playing games, where the fan kicks almost instantly after you start to play some 3D game like Jedi Knight 2.

Only then the machine gets hot, but then the fan is working so the thing gets cooler after a bit.

Only one time since I bought it the thing became dangerously hot, I think the fan started too late... BTW that was not with Mac OS X 10.2.5. No single heat problem since the last update.

[darren h]

I agree with eevyl on the situations when the powerbook is hot, my personal opinion is that it is not so much the harddrive but also the heat pipe for the GPU. I would also say that my 12" gets nowhere near as hot as an old dell inspiron I used to have and my girlfriends Compaq (new) also produces as much heat.

There should be no problems with paint chipping etc as the 12" (as mentioned many times before) is anodised aluminium - no piant to chip!

The warping does seem to be a very rare problem and we have no way of knowing if it is'nt a fault in individual units?

My advice would be to buy one, they are excellent machines.

D

[Camali]

I got a 12" and I'd like to know what .xml file should be deleted to reset the power management.

My machine will get hot and I'm usually doing work in iPhoto, Photoshop and just browsing and the left hand side gets a little too uncomfortable.

[Macola]

I've had my 12" for a couple of weeks now, tried deleting the prefs file, updating to 10.2.5, and resetting the PMU, but the heat issue is still pretty significant after an hour or so of average use. Since I mostly use an external keyboard and mouse, I don't really have a problem with comfort, but it still worries me. However, I would still recommend the 12" and the heat issue alone probably wouldn't keep me from buying the same model.

[Angus_D]

sudo rm /var/db/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.PowerManagement.xml

Then shut down and conduct the reset PMU procedure (see your manual). I did this, the fan seems to come on a lot more frequently but it's nowhere near as toasty.

[bbales]

First, to the first poster, I have a 12-in and really like it a lot. It does not replace my desktop, but it's great for being able to do work in two parts of the house. (My home office is in the basement; fine during the day but extremely inconvenient when also trying to cook dinner. I highlyh recommend it.

I've had two instances where the machine got extremely warm. During the first, I was copying about 250 MB of info from the desktop to the laptop, to keep files the same. It was followed by a kernal panic. I've had one other kernal panic, but I only suspect heat was also an issue there. (so that's 2 in 3 months -- I've only had one, ever, on my desktop in 15 months of using OSX.) My question -- has heat triggered panics for any other users? I'm still running 10.2.3, which came with the machine. I'm a little leery of going up to 10.2.5 because of the USB issues. But I'll probably do it one of these days. And I may try the deleting file fix.

But, in the final analysis, I'd recommend the 12-in. It's a great machine.

[cambro]

Originally posted by bbales:
I've had one other kernal panic, but I only suspect heat was also an issue there. (so that's 2 in 3 months -- I've only had one, ever, on my desktop in 15 months of using OSX.)

I've only had one kernel panic in X, and that was in way back in 10.0.0 on my Pismo with some classic sleep issues. What am I doing wrong?? Why can't I panic too??

Seriously, how do you get these panics? Heat surely isn't it...do you have USB devices galore?

Rearding the 12"...just remember that everyone was always noting the Ti's excessive heat when it first came out. I have a first gen Ti (well, my uncle has it now...I have a Ghz ), and it does get warm but it is totally acceptable. Unless you are really sensitive to heat, I'd say GO FOR IT!!

[bbales]

Originally posted by cambro:
I've only had one kernel panic in X, and that was in way back in 10.0.0 on my Pismo with some classic sleep issues. What am I doing wrong?? Why can't I panic too??

Seriously, how do you get these panics? Heat surely isn't it...do you have USB devices galore?

Rearding the 12"...just remember that everyone was always noting the Ti's excessive heat when it first came out. I have a first gen Ti (well, my uncle has it now...I have a Ghz ), and it does get warm but it is totally acceptable. Unless you are really sensitive to heat, I'd say GO FOR IT!!

Cambro (By the way, where in Chicago are you? I'm in Geneva -- western burbs) -- That's just it. I usually have NO USB devices. I'm using it as a laptop. I just remember with the first one, the machine got very, very hot. The rest of the time I'd say it sometimes gets warm, but nothing like this time. And the second time, I think I'd just upgraded something. One of my daughters was using it, but I'm not recalling at the moment, exactly what program it was (probably safari).

Overall, heat has not been a huge issue; I just wonder if it's responsible for the two kernal panics. They're so rare they sort of freak me out. In fact, on the first one, I didn't even know what it was because it was different than the sole attack I had on my desktop, which was in 10.1, not jaguar.

And I love the 12-in. It's a great machine.

[cambro]

bbales: I'm at the university of chicago...but not for too much longer!

Regarding your panics...were they full on panics where you get the panic panel in multiple languages telling you you have to restart? I had Safari totally bring down my system once. Nothing would respond, not even finder or force quit. Although it may not have been a kernel panic per se, I had to do a hard restart for the first time ever. I'm not sure what Safari did because the page I was on usually works just fine sometimes, locks Safari up sometimes, and, in that one instance, brought down the whole shebang.

Anyway, it would seem very unlikely that heat alone was causing a kernel panic. Maybe some process that was maxing out the system brought it down? Or maybe the case warped and shorted something out?

[bbales]

Yes, both full panics (with multiple languages). I didn't even realize it was one, b/c I'd never seen one in Jaguar! For now, I'm just keeping an eye on things. I do think the second one was Safari related, but i'd have to check with my daughter, who was using it at the time. Meant to write it down, but forgot...

Happy graduation to come.

[WinTroll]

I am typing this on my Compaq Presario 900.

The palm rest and keys never get hot or even warm. But the underside of this laptop is NUCLEAR. Just like the 12.1" PB I played with at 2 CompUSA's now. I pull CD's out that aren't even being used or spinning for hours and they are like hot bricks, just shy of burning my hand slightly.

I would rather the underside be hot than the top. Why? Because you will ALWAYS have your hands on the palmrest, but you might not have the laptop on your lap!

I have heard the PB fans. The noise is petty. Apple users are spoiled by not having any fans for years. High-tech produces high heat and you will eventually have to have fans to cool the laptop (especially the small and tight 12").

Only the fear of the HEAT holds me back from making the purchase....

[Lancer409]

wow .. just noticed the dates on this thread. =) .. i have a rev c pb .. and it does get warm .. sometimes .. very warm .. i may be being generous here ... but before this .. i had a subnotebook .. a 400 celeron fujitsu. it was only 3.2 pounds? .. magnesium case .. that thing goes nuclear .. the fan doesnt help .. lol .. and that thing is louder than the pbook .. no cd drive, and 2mb video ram. that's why i put up with the powerbook .. i love that laptop though ... touchscreen n everything =P