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Ryan1524 · 06:59 PM

i was eager to get a powerbook, but once the first rush of excitement from the prospect of getting a powerbook dies down, i begin to re-evaluate my decision. my decision to get a PB was first based on the idea that OS X is much much better than windows and it'll be computing heaven where nothing will ever go wrong, etc etc...you know, the usual sales pitch.

but as i read more and more on about 3-4 different mac forums, OS X is not without its own problems and sometimes it can just be as stubborn as windows (prove me wrong here....) on the other hand, i'll have to be confined by limited software...well, okay not really cause everything i want is also available for OS X. but games are limited.

i know there are other alternatives for a game...but it's just that it'd be nice to have something just for the sake of having it. and althou gaming is not priority on my list, it's nice to know i can play when i want to. especially after my old love for gaming hsa been re-kindled my my old friend. (damn you...)

so the options are: PB 15" or Thinkpad T41p
even based on price, beleive it or not, the PB will be around 2000$ cheaper than the Thinkpad. yea, i was quite shocked too, at first. but the PC option in this case is actually a lot more expensive than the PB. PB: 3249CDN VS. T41p: 5299CDN i know there are cheaper PC notebooks like the Toshiba M30 which is also quite nice with its PB-ish wide screen and silver tone all over its body (PB copy-cat really) and it's a bit cheaper than the PB, but it's also 1.4" and not really a real competitor to the PB in my eyes. (it's subjective i know...)

okay, now that i think OS X is not invulnerable, let's see what windows offers. i've always used windows, so i'm very familiar with it. and frankly, the only gripe i have about it is that is freezes every 2 days. other than that, it's great. that story about drivers not working, BSOD every few hours, viruses, etc etc they don't exist on my computer *knock wood. i'm smart enough to sit behind 3 firewalls and a reliable antivirus and wise enough to not downlaod every single crap that might have a virus in it. and so far, my computing experience with windows has been quite good. everything works as soon as i plug them in, none of that hours looking for drivers crap. except for the fact that windows' kernel is rotting into crap by day. it used to freeze or need restart every few months, but now it's every few days. a re-format would solve all that, i'm sure.

so...on top of this not so bad computing, i can play any games i want...but i'm still compelled to get a powerbook. or let me put it this way....i want a powerbook, despite the Thinkpad or the Tosh M30 seeming like a better deal overall. i'm beginning to think....should i get the thinkpad instead?? but i still want a PB...so yea...please help me stick with my original decision to get a PB.

thx for reading all this long crap....as you cans ee i'm quite confused now...any comments and advice are appreciated. thx.

Hamburglar · Dec 23, 2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Ryan1524:
and frankly, the only gripe i have about it is that is freezes every 2 days. other than that, it's great.

My advice for you is that, if the only thing that makes you want to switch to a Mac is that Windows freezes every two days or so, I wouldn't switch. (Although your case is different than most in that the PC is more expensive) Now, if the thing bothering you was that WinXP/etal isn't OS X - that would be a reason to switch.

On the other hand, you could pick up a PB, and use just a fraction of that extra 2 grand you'd be spending to update Vid Card, and/or RAM, CPU, Mobo in a desktop PC for gaming...

Just my .02.

-burglar

Luca Rescigno · Dec 23, 2003, 07:03 PM

Yeah, $2000 (even in Canadian dollars) is more than enough for a pretty good gaming PC. AMD Barton 2500+, name-brand motherboard with AGP 8x, 512MB PC3200, and a Radeon 9500 Pro would be a killer system for gaming, better than a Thinkpad OR a PowerBook. And you could probably build one for $1500 CDN or less.

If you don't want to bother with having a PC in addition to a PowerBook, then maybe you should just get the Thinkpad. The main advantage of the Mac is the OS, and if you prefer Windows then I don't see how getting a Mac would be beneficial (other than the lower price which is somewhat rare when comparing Macs and PCs). If you feel that Windows is "good enough" then you should at least try OS X. Yes, OS X has its own problems but in my opinion (and in the opinion of most Mac-heads here) they are minor compared to Windows.

Remember that software is more important than hardware. You could have the most powerful hardware in the world and if the software is bad, it will never be able to harness the power available. If you are constantly fighting with your machine, you won't be as productive.

So the point of all this is... heh... buy what you want

Ryan1524 · Dec 23, 2003, 07:12 PM

yes, i understand that. and i know that OS X is better. at least from what i've gathered from the many occasions i get to play with it. i like it and sincerely believe it's a better OS than what MS offers. but my problem is...is it worth switching to...especially when i don't really have that much problem or hate towards windows.

i guess what i'm trying to do is not to get convinced to get a PB..but to get convinced not to get a Thinkpad instead. i'm a cautious buyer who likes to get something that i know will benefit me most. and i know what i want, a PB. but suddenly...i look at what the Thinkpad is offering and it's quite tempting. so what i really need is a reason to reject the Thinkpad and stay with the PB. but don't have any right now...so i'm treading the fence.

Starry Night · Dec 23, 2003, 07:24 PM

Given what you've said, the main reason to get a PB instead of the Thinkpad is price. $2000 difference, even Canadian, is nothing to sneeze at. Is your main concern games? As you know, PC has more games, yet there are still plenty available on the Mac, just depends how hard core you are about gaming. Imho, the Thinkpad is not worth $2000 more, unless you just have to have windows and your company is paying for it

effgee · Dec 23, 2003, 07:33 PM

(...) especially when i don't really have that much problem or hate towards windows (...)

The question is not whether you love or hate Windows or OS X but how much either of the two will help you get your work done quicker and more efficiently. I too am using Win XP/2000 on a regular basis and am always surprised at how clumsy the entire Windows experience is.

As stated upthread - the most important factor is not the speed of your hardware but the software you're using. Even though Windows is catching up in this area as well, XP for example is still a far cry from the flexibility and ease of use offered by OS X. The old prerogative still remains - the software should adapt to the way you'd like to work and not vice versa - imho that is the single biggest advantage of the Mac platform.

Most people I know that have approached the Mac with an open mind and have used for a somewhat extended period of time were amazed by this.

And then there's there "fun factor" - it might sound insignificant, maybe even ridiculous - but even after working with Macs for over 15 years, I still enjoy sitting down at my computer every morning, hearing the friendly startup chime and looking at the thoughtfully designed interface. Yes, OS X still has its quirks but in my personal experience running/updating/operating 5 machines (2 G4's, a cube and 2 PB's) there aren't any major dealbreakers.

It's the usability and the fun that will make you much more productive - just ask some of the recent switchers here in the forum

HTH + cheers,

eff

Zatt · Dec 23, 2003, 07:58 PM

I'm going to throw my two cents in since I just switched to Mac from Windows.

There is no doubt that Mac OS X is much easier to use and more 'transparent' in application than Windows. I find myself actually using the computer, rather than manipulating it to do what I want it to do.

The operating system is more intuitive and has more readily available options for file manipulation. By 'readily available', I mean that I don't have to hunt through manuals or vague 'help' files to find out how to do something I want to.

I don't like having to fight with an OS to use it, nor do I like it when it freezes, locks up, or boots me out of an application with the infamous 'Illegal Operation' error.

jimf_81 · Dec 23, 2003, 07:58 PM

Well, I've had a 17" powerbook for only ~3 weeks or so now, and I can say that Mac OS X is far superior to any Windows software. You may be worried about some of the glitches, I've had a couple, but compared to the Windows 98/NT/2000/ME/XP that I have used for the past 7 or 8 years at school, work, and home, they are nothing.

bkb · Dec 23, 2003, 08:28 PM

Mac OS X is a wonderful. I couldn't imagine why you would want to be on Windows. The only logical reason is habit.

hardcat1970 · Dec 23, 2003, 09:13 PM

What do you really want to do with your notebook anyway? just for playing game? If so, why don't you have a playstation or xbox?

If you are using other office suite and is getting used to a window machine, Thinkpad is not a bad choice. As a matter of fact, it will be my only choice if i have to buy a windows laptop. My friend used to have a sexy sony vaio, but the performance will degrade from time to time, but the thinkpad holds up and it is light and expandable.

Of course nothing beats the apple's portable in terms of use and elegance. And if you are using it for others such as graphics, video or unix other stuff, you should really look into apple's offering.

Ryan1524 · Dec 23, 2003, 09:37 PM

no i'm not buying a notebook for games (heaven forbid). i'm gonna use it for univ. games are just that..games...occasional distractions. i'm sorry if i seem to focus too much on the gaming side of it. no it won't be used primarily for gaming. i'm hoping to major in biomedical computing. what kind of software that will involve, i'm still not sure. but i'm guessing there will be a fair bit of coding on top of the typical college use. this will also be my only machine. unless i can somehow scrounge up enough to get a desktop t accompany the notebook, but that's highly unlikely.

as i said...my friend has introduced me to some interesting new games and that might have temporarily got me into thinking that i need a machine that can do heavy gaming. but now that i think about it...i'm, not that big of a gamer..and i think i can get used to the idea that i can't expect to play any newly released games asap as on pc. heck i haven't even finished one game for the last year or so...
so yea...games are not the deciding factor.

@ho · Dec 23, 2003, 09:50 PM

I have done lots of great things with all pc I ever had, but since I bought a ibook and now with a new 15 Pb, i can tell you Mac os is more than you can see or hear in any review, It is fast, It displays great and personally I can do more in the same time.
I have to use a pc in my work to draw in Autocad but most of the time I carry my powerbook for other stuff specially for graphic design.
I was a little worried to switch, but now I am glad I did it.

jgcan · Dec 23, 2003, 09:58 PM

Ryan, I just switched myself and bought a PB 17" 1.33. I had been using Windows for more than 15 years and I did not have much problems with it. I was running XP on my desktop and did not have a lot of problems with it, my machine staying on for weeks without reboots.

BUT, the elegance of Apple hardware and OS was too much for me to resist and since I actually have used it now for more than 2 months, I will never go back to Windows (never used my wintel machine again yet).

You just fall in love with the whole Apple package (yes there are problems, but ....), never felt anything like that in all those years of wintel.

Come on, jump in the new adventure or you will never know which one suits you the best unless you make that move.

Bye, from a fellow Canadian (humm, let's say Quebecer

KraziKid · Dec 23, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by jgcan:
Ryan, I just switched myself and bought a PB 17" 1.33. I had been using Windows for more than 15 years and I did not have much problems with it. I was running XP on my desktop and did not have a lot of problems with it, my machine staying on for weeks without reboots.

Come on, jump in the new adventure or you will never know which one suits you the best unless you make that move.

I agree with you on these comments. I fall into that same category. Got the 17 inch powerbook, even though I have had zero problems with Windows XP. I personally enjoy using both Windows XP and Mac OS X. Mac OS X is without a doubt a better OS because it is user-centric. I enjoy the OS and the GUI, but the BSD core satisfies my inner geek. I use Windows on my desktop for software I need. If I had the money, I would without a doubt get a dual 2.0 GHz PowerMac G5, and 23 Inch Cinema Display, but at the moment, I don't have that kind of money.

phantomo · Dec 23, 2003, 10:28 PM

I agree with hardcat1970.

So better ask yourself what do you want to with the notebook?

Other than games, Mac and PC pretty much can do the same thing. Only that Mac can do it in a simple and logical way.

I don't mind playing games on my home desktop Athlon Xp machine but for doing media stuff (video editing, music and photos), the Mac offer better solution.

CeRtiFiedSkitZo · Dec 23, 2003, 11:11 PM

If you want to compare the 2 OSs, here's a good site for you to look at and you can make your own choice. By the way I'm a recent switcher and I have yet to run into any problems using OSX.

http://www.xvsxp.com/

Vi0 · 11:21 PM

Forget both, buy a Sager NP4780 17" 3.2 GHz for CAD $3032. Best bang for your buck, and they last practically forever.

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...4780&SubType=V

hardcat1970 · 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Vi0:
Forget both, buy a Sager NP4780 17" 3.2 GHz for CAD $3032. Best bang for your buck, and they last practically forever.

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...4780&SubType=V

1.7" inch thick and 9.8lbs?

this is not a laptop, this is a freaking brick. If you really want a true powerful and mobile machine, apple is the place to go. Although new Dell machines look nice and listed light but i could only see them in the catalog.

I went shopping for a pc laptop for my company a month ago, and after seeing all pc machines, i find the IBM thinkpad is really a bang for the money type machine and it is really light and powerful.

If you suggest a powerful pc machine, you better go for a desktop.

Vi0 · 12:56 AM

Originally posted by hardcat1970:
1.7" inch thick and 9.8lbs?

this is not a laptop, this is a freaking brick. If you really want a true powerful and mobile machine, apple is the place to go. Although new Dell machines look nice and listed light but i could only see them in the catalog.

I went shopping for a pc laptop for my company a month ago, and after seeing all pc machines, i find the IBM thinkpad is really not bang for the money type machine and it is really light and powerful.

If you suggest a powerful pc machine, you better go for a desktop.

.7" and 2.25 lbs makes almost no difference. Besides at 1" thickness, the PowerBooks get dented easily and they're pretty much toast if you drop them since there's really not much of a case.

The 3.2 GHz processor and 7200 rpm hard drive are killer in addition to the huge list of other features over the PowerBook. $2999 for the PowerBook and all you get is 1.33 GHz and a 4200 rpm hard drive? You gotta be kidding.

KraziKid · Dec 24, 2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Vi0:
.7" and 2.25 lbs makes almost no difference. Besides at 1" thickness, the PowerBooks get dented easily and they're pretty much toast if you drop them since there's really not much of a case.

The 3.2 GHz processor and 7200 rpm hard drive are killer in addition to the huge list of other features over the PowerBook. $2999 for the PowerBook and all you get is 1.33 GHz and a 4200 rpm hard drive? You gotta be kidding.

1 inch and 2.25 pounds does make a huge difference. I find my PowerBook completely portable, but anything that much larger would completely inhibit its portability. The Sager also has a tested 1:18 battery life. My apple can best that by about 3 hours. Also, I bet you if that Sager was dropped it would sustain just as much damage as a PowerBook. Also, our 17 Inch PowerBook's come standard with a DVD-Burner and 512 GB of RAM. That Sager is meant to sit on a desk, not to travel with you.