Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > Firmware 2.1 out

Firmware 2.1 out
Thread Tools
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:19 AM
 
You heard it here first.

Originally Posted by Apple
The iPhone 2.1 software update contains many bug fixes and improvements. To get it, connect your iPhone to your computer using iTunes 8 and click Check for Update.

Update includes:

Decrease in call set-up failures and dropped calls
Significantly better battery life for most users
Dramatically reduced time to backup to iTunes
Improved email reliability, notably fetching email from POP and Exchange accounts
Faster installation of 3rd party applications
Fixed bugs causing hangs and crashes for users with lots of third party applications
Improved performance in text messaging
Faster loading and searching of contacts
Improved accuracy of the 3G signal strength display
Repeat alert up to two additional times for incoming text messages
Option to wipe data after ten failed passcode attempts
Genius playlist creation

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:21 AM
 
I'm gonna wait for a week or so.

Let others be the guinea pigs

-t
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:22 AM
 
Seriously. Can it get any worse?

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Akiba alleyway
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:38 AM
 
WIth Mac OS X, I normally wait a while to see what issues arise with third party software I need for work and "heavy lifting". But in this case, I'm more than happy to play guinea pig. Updating this very moment.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:46 AM
 
Mine's finished.

So far backing up was at least cut in half. Installing/updating apps from the computer also seems faster.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:49 AM
 
My 200+ contacts now load close to instantly. Slight lag the first time, but they appear to be cached now. Nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:54 AM
 
Obviously too early to tell, but everything seems more responsive and I have yet to have it crash. Even on such surefire scenarios as playing the iPod (now with Genius) and loading web pages through NetNewsWire and typing fast

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:57 AM
 
I didn't have the 1.x software, and I've been mostly happy with the 2.0.x stuff... so from everyone else out there, it really can't get worse IMHO. Bla... it's Friday and I have a few Genius bars in the neighborhood, so I'm not freaking out.

2.1, here I come!
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:06 AM
 
FWIW, I now get full 3G reception from within my apartment (sadly no GPS still ), and speedtest gives me 228 Kb/s down / 200.36 Kb/s up.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manhattan, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:15 AM
 
I also have full 3G reception now in my apartment in Brooklyn--393kps. Wow, an update that has actually *improved* the performance of my phone!
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brooklyn, yo...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:20 AM
 
I guess no copy/paste eh?

Also, I wonder if apple's remote app will be updated to support genius playlist creation, which to me is one of the best surprises to come out of the new itunes. I was fan of MusicIP Mixer, until it corrupted a lot of my music that is... Apple's implementation is much more elegant.

Well, here goes.. I'll be happy not to wait 2 hours for the iphone to backup, that's for sure.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:27 AM
 
I was hoping push notification would have made it.
MacBook Pro 13" 2.8GHz Core i7/8GB RAM/750GB Hard Drive - Mac OS X 10.7.3
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Akiba alleyway
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Here are my initial observations of the obvious differences in the first few minutes of tinkering.

My iPhone now displays five bars (full 3G reception) at my desk. I previously got *none*. To what degree this represents a truly stronger signal as opposed to "display adjustments" is left to be seen. Then again, I never had problems with dropped calls or reception in the past. (That's here in Tokyo.)

As with - - e r i k - -, my contacts can be accessed much more quickly. (That's about 200 contacts with quite a few data fields filled for each.) There is a slight lag when selecting the app right from the Home screen the first time. But it's quick afterwards, and available right away when I access it from within the phone app.

I find movement around the Home Screen and the launching of apps noticeably lighter and quicker. Hope that lasts.

So far, I've incurred no problems using the slew of installed apps as a result of the upgrade, or with data contained within those third-party apps.

Only two things have caught my eye that I don't quite understand. Neither pose problems, but it would be nice to have reference information to determine why they appear(ed).

The first was a message showing the first time the iPhone rebooted after the update. A translucent blue message box appeared before unlocking (swiping) the phone, such as when an SMS message has been received. It read (in Japanese), "Your iPhone has been activated". Odd, and here I thought it was activated over a month ago... The same message appeared when I reached the Home screen as well.

The second is a small thing that will become clear soon. When I launched the iPod app, it opened to the video tab (screen), just as I had left it. However, there were solid blue dots to the left of a few videos that I've viewed before. I thought the blue dot was for material that hadn't yet been viewed. But what was really new was a few clips with for which a blue and white dot appeared. That's essentially a blue ring half filled in blue, with the other half left white. Not sure what that one means, and hadn't seen it before. A partially viewed video, perhaps? (Note that it now appears on a couple of videos that I know I have watched to the end.)

That's about it. Here's hoping I witness the dramatic increase in battery run-time per charge! (Battery life per charge was maybe the greatest incentive in installing the firmware update right away.)
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:48 AM
 
Now to wait for applications to take advantage. Especially Facebook 2.0

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brooklyn, yo...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by issa View Post
The first was a message showing the first time the iPhone rebooted after the update. A translucent blue message box appeared before unlocking (swiping) the phone, such as when an SMS message has been received. It read (in Japanese), "Your iPhone has been activated". Odd, and here I thought it was activated over a month ago... The same message appeared when I reached the Home screen as well.

The second is a small thing that will become clear soon. When I launched the iPod app, it opened to the video tab (screen), just as I had left it. However, there were solid blue dots to the left of a few videos that I've viewed before. I thought the blue dot was for material that hadn't yet been viewed. But what was really new was a few clips with for which a blue and white dot appeared. That's essentially a blue ring half filled in blue, with the other half left white. Not sure what that one means, and hadn't seen it before. A partially viewed video, perhaps? (Note that it now appears on a couple of videos that I know I have watched to the end.))
The activation thing happens every time one updates the iphone, completely normal. The half-dot thing is new and from what I've read, it signal that the video has been partially watched, but not finished. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 12:06 PM
 
Seems "snappier".
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

MacBook Pro 17" 2.33 GHz - (mine)
MacBook Pro 15" 1.83 GHz - (wife)
Pair of iPhones
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I'm gonna wait for a week or so.

Let others be the guinea pigs

-t
I'm with Turtle. I'm still at 1.1.3 and will be staying there until Apple can convince me that they remember how to write stable code.
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Akiba alleyway
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ccrider View Post
The activation thing happens every time one updates the iphone, completely normal.
Thanks. I didn't think it that odd. Still, I don't recall seeing this message when I updated from 2.0 to 2.0.1, or from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2. And I'm pretty sure that I would have noticed had it appeared, so shared the observation. It's true that I started out with 2.0; maybe it was something omitted in those incremental updates?

Originally Posted by ccrider View Post
The half-dot thing is new and from what I've read, it signal that the video has been partially watched, but not finished. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.
That was my assumption, as I wrote. The oddity I intended to point out is that the half-dot appears beside videos that I have watched through to the end on more than one occasion.
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 12:57 PM
 
Wow. This is one of the best updates yet.

For once, "snappier" isn't just a joke....

It makes this thing a lot more usable.... especially the contacts.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

MacBook Pro 17" 2.33 GHz - (mine)
MacBook Pro 15" 1.83 GHz - (wife)
Pair of iPhones
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 01:20 PM
 
I'll also let others be the guinea pigs. At least for as long as I can resist the temptation. Maybe another six to twelve hours.
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 01:35 PM
 
@issa
Nice write-up. Thanks for the details. I too saw the Now Activated message when I upgraded a first gen iPhone from 1.1.3 to 2.0.2.

@Wiskedjak
Assuming 2.1 still looks good over the next few days, I would recommend the upgrade from 1.1.3. I was on v1.1.3 until about two weeks ago. Avoided the 2.0 and 2.0.1 upgrades like the plague. I had been waiting patiently for v2 to get better because I really wanted an easy connect to the company's Exchange server. That was a snap to set-up after I upgraded and has worked fine since.

In 2.0.2, I've noticed the lag when accessing Contacts that has been commented on all over the place (only slightly annoying to me). If that's fixed in 2.1, great. The one problem I've had that I have not seen documented is incoming calls getting shuttled automatically to voice-mail when browsing email. I understand the limits of EDGE but it's happened 2-3 times in the last two weeks, which is more frequently than I remember with 1.1.x.

I'll sit back for a day or two and watch the reports roll in. Remember, even with a "good" upgrade, the problems will probably outweigh the kudos.

QS

[edited to add to add a thought I had overlooked.]
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:07 PM
 
I upgraded, and don't notice anything different. I hope battery life is better.
So far though, I still have only Edge in my apartment - it goes to G then back to E. Granted, I live in a steel & concrete building that I couldn't even make calls from using Tmobile.

I have to put it through a better test to see what's improved. The actual updating was a snap and took about 15 minutes.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:08 PM
 
I'm going for 2.1 now. I recall how nice 1.1.4 was and honestly, I wouldn't have minded sticking with that, although the applications are a good addition.

Here's hoping 2.1 is as good as the people here lead me to believe.
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I upgraded, and don't notice anything different. I hope battery life is better.
So far though, I still have only Edge in my apartment - it goes to G then back to E. Granted, I live in a steel & concrete building that I couldn't even make calls from using Tmobile.

I have to put it through a better test to see what's improved. The actual updating was a snap and took about 15 minutes.
In many places, 3G is at 1900 MHz, whereas EDGE is @ 850 MHz. This is not the case everywhere, of course, but it makes sense in your case. RF penetrates well at lower frequencies just like sound does. This is why you hear "thump, thump, thump" from your neighbor's stereo but none of the high noises.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

MacBook Pro 17" 2.33 GHz - (mine)
MacBook Pro 15" 1.83 GHz - (wife)
Pair of iPhones
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:19 PM
 
seems like a 2.0.3 update rather than a 2.1...

sure, they fixed a few bugs like delayed text, sluggish contacts, better 3g reception (which should have been there from the start), but where is the cut-paste, GPS improvements, etc. that were rumored about??
( Last edited by smoak5; Sep 12, 2008 at 02:20 PM. Reason: missing text.)
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by CorpITGuy View Post
In many places, 3G is at 1900 MHz, whereas EDGE is @ 850 MHz. This is not the case everywhere, of course, but it makes sense in your case. RF penetrates well at lower frequencies just like sound does. This is why you hear "thump, thump, thump" from your neighbor's stereo but none of the high noises.
Interesting assessment. The irony of this is that I receive 3G in my elevator, and lose it once I'm home. Fortunately the neighbor's stereo is silent.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by smoak5 View Post
seems like a 2.0.3 update rather than a 2.1...

sure, they fixed a few bugs like delayed text, sluggish contacts, better 3g reception (which should have been there from the start), but where is the cut-paste, GPS improvements, etc. that were rumored about??
Cut and paste was something I was hoping for. Maybe Christmas?

edit: I mean COPY and paste... it wouldn't do much good to cut and paste, now would it?
( Last edited by osiris; Sep 12, 2008 at 02:44 PM. )
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WI, United States
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:40 PM
 
No push notification? Okay.....

At least its got a lot of great bug fixes and speed improvements. I have yet to update my touch yet, but I'll get to it tonight.
I'm on MacNN forums, but no longer have a Mac...
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 02:41 PM
 
does anyone know if the 1st gen iphone will get better reception?
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 03:30 PM
 
I don't like the way the new 3G icon looks, looked better in the block.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 03:53 PM
 
Overall, I'm very happy.

Pros:
- The reception seems to be better at work, can't wait to get home (maybe I'll have 3g in my apt!)
- The battery is noticeably better. Maybe now, I'll get a few days out of it as compared to one full day (granted, I'm NOT a normal user)
- Speed, speed, speed...
- I now consider address book usable. Sure, I COULD use it before, but it was a pain.

Cons:;
- I liked the Edge and 3G icons at the top...
- I'm like most... wanted cut/paste in some basic form... if you text me a piece of information, I should never have to memorize it. That's old world.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 03:57 PM
 
So what's the deal with the new badges? Apple's PR image doesn't show any difference. Any screenshots?

     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 05:03 PM
 
What new badges?
     
Forum Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
What new badges?
I think Simon is talking about the new 3G and EDGE badges in the upper left corner on the iPhone screen. In the press image he attached, the 3G icon appears as it did before the 2.1 update (mine is updating now so I can't see the difference on my own phone).

-Brian
15" MacBook Pro 2.33 GHz/320GB/2GB RAM
iPod classic (160 GB)
iPod nano (4 GB)
iPod shuffle (1 GB)
     
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 05:37 PM
 
FWIW in this area, we do not have 850mHz, only 1900. I determined this when testing the Griffin ClearBoost case, which is engineered to boost the 850 frequency, but actually has a negligible-to-diminishing effect on the 1900 band.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by higuy83 View Post
I think Simon is talking about the new 3G and EDGE badges in the upper left corner on the iPhone screen. In the press image he attached, the 3G icon appears as it did before the 2.1 update (mine is updating now so I can't see the difference on my own phone).

-Brian
Looks like the photoshop wiz's forgot about that part.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 07:23 PM
 
Does the iPhone iPod application record play counts and add them to the iTunes library play count on sync?

I don't think it did this before. It is important for some smart playlists that update based on play count. Since I use my iPhone for music more than itunes, some songs never drop off these playlists because it didn't think they were being played. I think it's also important now for Genius recommendations.

I'll check myself, but I though I would ask in case someone knew.

How did it come to this? Goodbye PowerPC. | sensory output
     
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the verge of insanity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 07:55 PM
 
My 3G reception at home went from 1 or 2 bars to 5.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:13 PM
 
Not to be picky, but 2.1 is a software update, not firmware.
     
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:25 PM
 
Software, and Firmware. Clearly identified during each part of the upgrade process. Will check 3G -db tomorrow. In my living room on Edge I now show -71db. Used to always be -91db. -110 to -115 is where calls start to drop.

Bars mean nothing. Put your phone in field test mode to check your -db signal. -51 is the best possible.

Love 2.1. Thanks Apple. Now slow down for a while and beta test better.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
Sun Tzu
     
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Polwaristan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:30 PM
 
from -91 to -71 dB is quite a gain (pun intended). I wonder what under-the-hood changes were made to affect the improvement, as that sort of increase often involves hardware.
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:39 PM
 
Just upgraded. First thing I saw was that my address book of more than 2,000 contacts now is very responsive both in opening and in searching.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Not to be picky, but 2.1 is a software update, not firmware.
Good thing you prefaced that with "Not to be picky", because that sure sounded picky to me.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 09:54 PM
 
Sorry. I just wanted to point it out for future reference.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:10 PM
 
Yes, iPod app tracks play counts. Not sure if this is new with 2.1 or 2.0, but I know the 1.x series iPhone OS didn't track play counts.

How did it come to this? Goodbye PowerPC. | sensory output
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mil Wau Kee
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:24 PM
 
Just updated to 2.1 and I see NO genious playlist on my iPod app. I don't see the genious icon on the bar that comes up where the shuffel icon is at !! Am I missing something ?

I was really looking forward to that feature on my iPhone !
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:27 PM
 
It's big and in the middle, has a nucleus symbol.
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mil Wau Kee
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 10:57 PM
 
Yeah I know what it should look like but I don't see the symbol or icon ! Anyone else with this issue ?
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:13 PM
 
Well that is very weird. I guess you should restore. That sucks. Are you sure it actually installed? Look under About in Settings. I've heard that a few people have downloaded the update but it didn't actually install 2.1, just the last version of 2.0.
     
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 12, 2008, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
from -91 to -71 dB is quite a gain (pun intended). I wonder what under-the-hood changes were made to affect the improvement, as that sort of increase often involves hardware.
Not sure about that. There was some serious Firmware changes coordinated with at&t me thinks. You'll notice there is now a Carrier Version under settings/about. I'm wondering if iPhones may have their own nodes on the towers now? The big test will be the 3G check tomorrow, and a weeks worth of use. Many people report no change in their -db, others an increase.

Most likely serious hardware tweaking with firmware closely coordinated with at&t?

Will report in 1 week.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
Sun Tzu
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:57 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2