[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

This is a similar argument that existed before the iPod mini came out. Why make a smaller, sleeker iPod for less money?

The difference is that the iPod mini had a clear advantage over regular iPods in one area -- size. Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

[analogika]

Whatever happens, I expect the first major iPhone software update at the same time as the next generation of iPods are released.

Apple will re-arrange the playing-field a bit by padding out the iPhone's offerings a bit, I'd bet.

[Dakarʒ]

That's a good thought.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I hope WiFi stays an iPhone feature. I want a slim iPod with no additional 802.11 circuitry, no OS X, no web/email, and all the battery juice used just for playing my movies and audio. Right now the iPod is a media device and the iPhone is the communication device. I hope it stays that way. With time iPhone memory capacity will increase and iPod prices will come further down. And that's perfectly ok.

I'd like to see a widescreen Coverflow iPod with about 80 GB capacity in a 8 mm thick package. Battery life should be enough for 5h of video. Lose the scroll wheel so the iPod doesn't have to be substantially bigger than its screen. Use touchscreen controls similar to the iPhone.

WiFi doesn't take up much space these days. Battery juice can be identical, if one should choose to turn off WiFi searching. OS X is a natural progression of the technology, considering that Apple probably wants to move away from licencing the iPods' OS. And of course CoverFlow would probably be much harder to implement without OS X support.

I personally think that CoverFlow and OS X will be in the new iPod (eventually). I'm not so sure that WiFi will be, but I think it's a definite possibility. It's also possible that Apple will release two types of video iPods, one without WiFi/Safari and one with it.

The latter would be necessary for iTunes/Airport Express remote functionality.

Originally Posted by icruise 

The difference is that the iPod mini had a clear advantage over regular iPods in one area -- size. Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

Yes. And that "a lot" of people would be far more people than iPhone buyers. In other words, Apple would do very well to get that customer base. Sure, it'd hurt AT&T, but I'm sure Apple doesn't give a crap if AT&T suffers as long as Apple itself is doing well.

Indeed, I wonder if AT&T worked into the contract a specified delay time before a widescreen touchscreen iPod were released.

P.S. I sold my 3G iPod and bought an iPod mini when it came out.

[icruise]

I don't think Apple is very concerned about AT&T doing well per se, but since they reportedly get a share of the wireless proceeds and want the iPhone to succeed as a product and as a platform (to the extent that you can call web apps a platform), it's not in their best interest to undermine the iPhone. Again, a widescreen iPod with just the iPhone's music and video features would still sell like hotcakes.

[icruise]

On the other hand, if they could make an iPod like you describe, it would totally destroy any other MP3 player on the market. Who would buy a Zune in preference to one of those? And you can certainly argue that the iPod is more important to Apple than the iPhone, and that cementing their hold on the MP3 player market would be worth possibly losing some iPhone sales. So I suppose it could go either way.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I don't think Apple is very concerned about AT&T doing well per se, but since they reportedly get a share of the wireless proceeds and want the iPhone to succeed as a product and as a platform (to the extent that you can call web apps a platform), it's not in their best interest to undermine the iPhone. Again, a widescreen iPod with just the iPhone's music and video features would still sell like hotcakes.

Originally Posted by icruise 

On the other hand, if they could make an iPod like you describe, it would totally destroy any other MP3 player on the market. Who would buy a Zune in preference to one of those? And you can certainly argue that the iPod is more important to Apple than the iPhone, and that cementing their hold on the MP3 player market would be worth possibly losing some iPhone sales. So I suppose it could go either way.

I think both views are true to an extent.

An iPhone-like iPod doesn't undermine the iPhone. An iPhone-like iPod further solidifies the iPod/iPhone platform. As a music player, the tarted-up iPod blows anything else out of the water. As a phone, the iPhone blows most other stuff out of the water. The iPhone makes the sister iPod look good. The tarted-up iPod makes the sister iPhone look good. And they both make lots of money for Apple going forward.

Note though, in my view, ultimately the iPhone market IS the iPod market. Just as PDAs started to die as phones got more sophisticated, I think the iPod market will start to die as phones get more sophisticated.

As of 2007, it actually makes sense to have 8 GB of storage in a freakin' phone, and by 2009, 16 GB will actually be cheap. (My very first hard drive was 25 MB or something ridiculously low like that.) It would be stupid not to try to be the king of this market. Dominating the iPod market and making a killer device in the phone market draws in both groups of people to when the iPhone becomes the dominant portable media player in Apple's lineup. It's of note that Sony has already tried this. However, they have failed because their portable media player functionality of their phones kinda sucks, and their devices aren't backed up by killer software like iTunes.

However, that time when the iPhone takes over from the iPod is years off, and in the meantime Apple needs to satisfy the rest of the world's mere mortals with a cheaper non-phone device.

P.S. The iPhone and iPod could share most accessories, and in fact they already do to an extent now.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

Exactly. The "iPhone minus phone" iPod would be more expensive than the current iPod and at the same time reduce iPhone revenue. If anything Apple wants to lure people from cheaper iPods to the more expensive iPhone. Making an iPod become more like an iPhone is going against that.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Exactly. The "iPhone minus phone" iPod would be more expensive than the current iPod and at the same time reduce iPhone revenue. If anything Apple wants to lure people from cheaper iPods to the more expensive iPhone. Making an iPod become more like an iPhone is going against that.

Which is why I assume Apple will differentiate the iPhone further through software updates.

[kentuckyfried]

It's coming, eventually. The ipod+laptop promotion's typically to clear out the old inventory. That's exactly what happened with the release of the first nano. It was timed pretty much right after that promo ended.

They'd be stupid not to release for the rest of us. Main point in contention is that Apple needs to stay competitive in the mp3 player business. The next logical step is video, which they do already have. But currently aside from the iPhone, the reigning champ for portable video playback is the PSP in regards to real estate. It's relatively easy for Apple to usurp them though if they can match or exceed the display size, and ALSO provide a much better UI than the PSP can currently offer. I'm not saying that PSP's is bad, but the fact that a person has to jump through so many hoops to convert a DVD into an MP4, or even an AVI into an MP4, is an issue begging for an simplified, integrated solution. As it stands right now, even though FFMPEGX is available to do all the video conversion, it's too complicated for the average lazy non-geeky person to delve into.

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm selling my iPod. I want more. (I'll use my iPod mini for the time being.)

However, I don't want the current iPhone. It's moot anyway, since I'm not in the US (and don't want a 2-year contract either).

I wish Apple would release a widescreen video iPod already. It's been a long time coming. It'd be cool with the WiFi and PDA-like features utilizing a touch screen, but not a requirement, especially if I could get one for US$249.

And don't tell me the iPhone IS the widescreen video iPod, cuz it isn't. Not when it costs $600 or 8 GB anyway.

Here's hoping for an August release. BTW, it's been 39 weeks since the last significant iPod update.

[icruise]

Do normal people really use the PSP as a video player? Maybe for UMD movies to some extent, but it's so difficult to convert and transfer video that I seriously doubt a very large percentage of PSP owners do it. I certainly wouldn't expect a new iPod to exceed the PSP in terms of screen size (after all, it needs to remain more or less the same physical size), and I also don't think it has to. The iPhone's screen is nearly as big in a product only a fraction of the PSP's size and weight. I love my PSP for games, but as an iPod replacement it's terrible.

[Eug]

It shouldn't be hard to convert video to the PSP. Software like Handbrake already has presets for it. I was thinking about getting the PSP. The main problem is that its H.264 bitrate support isn't the greatest, and the unit is too big. The price is quite reasonable though.

As for the video size on a widescreen iPod, I think it would be fine. I've watched video on the 5G iPod, and that really is too small (esp. considering it's a 4:3 screen, so there's a lot of wasted space with 16:9 material), but I don't need a 6" screen either.

The iPod is 4:3 at 2.5". The iPhone is also still only 4:3, but it's 3.5". That means their dimensions are 1.5x2 and 2.1x3.2 respectively. That's an enormous difference - The iPhone has over twice as much screen real estate:

(3.2x2.1) / (2.0x1.5) = 2.24X

Both would still use 640x480 H.264. It's too bad that the iPhone couldn't use higher quality H.264, since Baseline-LC profile leaves a little something to be desired. At the same bitrate, 640x480 Main profile would rock (for TV output), but I wouldn't expect that any time soon in a portable device like the iPod.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It shouldn't be hard to convert video to the PSP. Software like Handbrake already has presets for it.

I'm sure you and I can figure it out, but we're not exactly the average consumer. (That said, when I tried to watch some video on my PSP the other day i couldn't remember where to put it on the memory stick or what the file naming conventions were, so it's not exactly a snap.) I would imagine that most people who watch video on their iPods are watching premade content like videos purchased from the iTunes Store, video podcasts and the like. That's difficult to do with the PSP. And of course, you're limited to 4GB (or possibly 8GB, if the 8GB MS Duo has finally come out) and getting that storage requires an additional purchase which could cost more than than the PSP itself.

The other problem is that there isn't really an "iTunes" equivalent for the PSP, so managing and transferring media is much harder than it should be. Sony does have a software package that they sell separately, which I haven't tried, but my experience with Sony software hasn't been stellar.

When you combine the PSP's huge (for a PMP) size and weight, it's not surprising that few people use its non-gaming features.

[Eug]

MR: 6G iPod User Interface Redesign and Videos



World Clock
Now Playing
Cover art thumbnails

This is all strictly rumour of course, I but I have wondered if they would attempt revamping the OS while keeping the clickwheel.

That in itself doesn't bother me, as I like the clickwheel. What would annoy me is if the thing had the same size screen as before, and I note that the screengrab has the same rez as the current iPod 5.5G.

Also, something like this would likely mean no WiFi.

[cmoney]

Yeah those screen videos have mostly been debunked. Look frame by frame for:

ipodnp.mp4: battery level going up when going from menu selection to now playing
ipodwc.mp4: time in addis ababa changing from 10:55 to 5:55 when it's selected

[icruise]

Well, don't forget that the official iPhone video listed a capacity of 80GB for a while there. It's not inconceivable that those mistakes are just the result of sloppy editing.

[kentuckyfried]

damnit man, are you implying that I'm abnormal?

When I was on travel, or working out in the gym, I used the PSP heavily as a video player. What I'd do is grab the files online as AVI's and then convert them at night while I was sleeping.
So it was in this way that I was able to watch entire t.v. series like Arrested Development and Firefly. It was a great system and it saved me the agony of having to watch soundless playback of Farscape or boring sports events.

It it's a touchscreen iPod that has comparable dimensions to the existing video iPod, it will end up having the advantage over the PSP b/c the surface area of the top face exceeds the viewing area of the PSP (just by a little).

Originally Posted by icruise 

Do normal people really use the PSP as a video player? Maybe for UMD movies to some extent, but it's so difficult to convert and transfer video that I seriously doubt a very large percentage of PSP owners do it. I certainly wouldn't expect a new iPod to exceed the PSP in terms of screen size (after all, it needs to remain more or less the same physical size), and I also don't think it has to. The iPhone's screen is nearly as big in a product only a fraction of the PSP's size and weight. I love my PSP for games, but as an iPod replacement it's terrible.

[icruise]

I wouldn't expect the iPod to have a bigger screen than the iPhone, which is a bit smaller than the PSP's. And yes, you're abnormal!

[Eug]

In truth, anyone who uses the iPod heavily for video playback is abnormal. Welcome to the club.