[RobOnTheCape]

How is this a good idea for Apple. The gist of the article is that Cingular doesn't cover all or large portions of more than 18 states. When asked about coverage in Vermont they replied they don't plan on offering service there before 09.

Cingular might offer service in large metro areas and that's where the money is, however it seems to me to be just bad form to in affect cut out a large portion of the public from buying the iphone.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticke..._wont_wor.html

Wednesday, January 17, 2007

iPhone won't work in all of New England
Vermonters won’t be able to take advantage of Apple’s iPhone because it will be offered by a wireless carrier that doesn’t maintain a network in the state.

The iPhone, which combines an iPod music player, cellphone, and full-featured Internet browser, is goes on sale in June, but only in areas served by AT&T’s Cingular Wireless, with which Apple has an exclusive distribution deal.

The iPhone service won’t be available in all or large portions of Maine, New Hampshire, Alaska, Colorado, the Dakotas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, upstate New York, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming, among other places.

"It was a pretty big letdown," said Don Mayer, CEO of Small Dog Electronics, an Apple dealer in Waitsfield, Vt. "I would have much rather seen them come out with a variety of carriers so places like Vermont won’t be left out in the cold."

Cingular customers can roam on other networks or other carriers, but new customers must live in communities the company serves. A Cingular spokeswoman said the company has no plans to expand in Vermont, at least not before 2009.

The iPhone was unveiled this month during the annual Macworld Conference and Expo in San Francisco. The device is a cross between another of Apple’s industry-changing devices, the iPod, and a cellphone.
(AP)

Posted by Boston Globe Business Team at 03:53 PM

[f1000]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

How is this a good idea for Apple. The gist of the article is that Cingular doesn't cover all or large portions of more than 18 states. When asked about coverage in Vermont they replied they don't plan on offering service there before 09.

How large is a "large" portion of a state? Moreover, does that large physical portion actually encompass a similarly large population? I think you already know the answers to these questions.

No carrier offers compete digital coverage of the entire United States, so I don't see the point of this thread or article. I get 3.5G signals in Harvard Square for crying out loud.



Cingular Wireless




Population Density Graph of United States, 2000.




Patterns of human population density can be seen in this satellite image of United States cities at night. (Source: Defense Meteorological Satellite Program City Lights Program).

[Dark Helmet]

It's Apples fault, they should build more antennas and offer the services free with phone purchase.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

It's Apples fault, they should build more antennas and offer the services free with phone purchase.

It's just more whining from the I'm-not-on-Cingular-so-Apple-sucks-crowd.

[Gossamer]

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by f1000 

It's just more whining from the I'm-not-on-Cingular-so-Apple-sucks-crowd.

I'm not even in the US but you can bet i will have an iPhone one way or another.

I am really happy apple went with GSM and not CDMA as CDMA is crap.

[andi*pandi]

well, I'm in MA and could buy it, but if it doesn't work in NH, Maine, and VT that isn't good. New Englanders tend travel amongst the other states frequently for both work and play. Verizon wins again.

[Rumor]

Technically, I live outside of Cingulars coverage area.

However, I have Cingular service that works great.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I'm not even in the US but you can bet i will have an iPhone one way or another.

I am really happy apple went with GSM and not CDMA as CDMA is crap.

To me, the GSM versus CDMA debate is sort of like the VHS versus Beta one. I gave up on CDMA back in '02 when I started tethering via GPRS.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by f1000 

How large is a "large" portion of a state? Moreover, does that large physical portion actually encompass a similarly large population? I think you already know the answers to these questions.

No carrier offers compete digital coverage of the entire United States, so I don't see the point of this thread or article. I get 3.5G signals in Harvard Square for crying out loud.

That map includes all of the coverage provided by other companies that Cingular roams off of. So that's not only Cingular coverage, but T-Mobile, Dobson, and all the various rural providers Cingular roams on. All that coverage you see in the Dakotas and Montana for instance? Cingular doesn't own any of that - that's all roaming on the Western Wireless network, which is now owned by Alltel since their acquisition of WW. Now, you may notice that Alltel is a CDMA provider, as was Western Wireless before Alltel bought them. So why do they have a GSM network? Simple - to make money off of companies like Cingular that pay them roaming fees if their users use their cell phones in the Midwest. And since their own customers aren't using it, Alltel isn't particularly concerned with making it have very good coverage - in fact, the Western Wireless GSM network is horrible. It basically works on the interstates and major highways, and in big areas such as airports and major commercial centers. Anywhere else, forget about it - you might get one or two bars outside if you're lucky. And since it costs Cingular money every time you use your phone in one of these areas, there is no way Cingular will let you sign up for their service if you live in those areas! In fact, Cingular has a rule where if roaming makes up 50% of your usage or more, they'll terminate your account. So if you live in one of the 18 states mentioned in the original article, you can't get Cingular, and thus you can't get the iPhone.

BTW, here are some more accurate maps of the coverage that Cingular actually owns:

GSM 850:


GSM 1900:


Any area that appears on the big orange map but doesn't show up on either of those two is just roaming off someone else.

Since people are talking about Vermont, here are some close-ups of the New England area on Cingular's native network:

GSM 1900:


GSM 850:


For comparison, here's Verizon's native coverage (in dark red):



And in New England:

[Dark Helmet]

This thread needs more maps with little dots all over them.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

How is this a good idea for Apple. The gist of the article is that Cingular doesn't cover all or large portions of more than 18 states. When asked about coverage in Vermont they replied they don't plan on offering service there before 09.

How is it good for Apple? Because the entire world outside of those 18 stated uses GSM. I think if sacrifices of compatibility would have to be made it would be CDMA for GSM.

There *is* a world outside the USA.. true story.



V

[Dark Helmet]

CMDA phones have worse battery life and are usually bigger. Why would we want either on the iPhone?

[Eug]

Anyone who is the least bit interested in getting interesting phones should be on GSM or 3G, unless you live in the middle of nowhere.

That the iPhone would be GSM (or 3G or both) was a foregone conclusion long before it was ever announced.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

How is it good for Apple? Because the entire world outside of those 18 stated uses GSM. I think if sacrifices of compatibility would have to be made it would be CDMA for GSM.

There *is* a world outside the USA.. true story.



V

And Cingular, whom Apple has an exclusive agreement with, is also US-only. So guess what - you can't get Cingular either, and thus - no iPhone for you.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

CMDA phones have worse battery life and are usually bigger. Why would we want either on the iPhone?

You'd want it if you lived in an area exclusively serviced by CDMA providers. You'd also want it if you lived in an area which is serviced by GSM providers, but in which the CDMA phones are the only ones that'll actually work inside buildings.

Also, what are you talking about regarding them being bigger? The RAZR and KRZR and other tiny phones look pretty much exactly the same in their CDMA versions as in their GSM versions.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And Cingular, whom Apple has an exclusive agreement with, is also US-only. So guess what - you can't get Cingular either, and thus - no iPhone for you.

Rogers is getting the iPhone, according to Rogers. However they won't give us an actual date.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And Cingular, whom Apple has an exclusive agreement with, is also US-only. So guess what - you can't get Cingular either, and thus - no iPhone for you.

Ah yes, Apple intends to create Cingular in Europe for 4th quarter 2007.

V

[rickey939]

Interesting.

[pra9ab0y]

im sure you could get an iphone to work in the UK. same as if you come over here iwth any other phone rite?

[JoshuaZ]

The launch of the iPhone won`t have the greatest coverage. Wait a year and pick up a send gen 16 gig iPhone (with full video chat that turns into a robot car) off of some other carrior. I`m sure apple is in the works of getting everyone else caught up on the iPhone tech so that they too can sell it.

(I for one won`t be able to get an iPhone until the end of 2008 when I return to the US, or hit up Europe for a couple of years.)

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ashleyman 

im sure you could get an iphone to work in the UK. same as if you come over here iwth any other phone rite?

Yeah, but not with a UK carrier, as the iPhone will be locked to Cingular.

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

The launch of the iPhone won`t have the greatest coverage. Wait a year and pick up a send gen 16 gig iPhone (with full video chat that turns into a robot car) off of some other carrior. I`m sure apple is in the works of getting everyone else caught up on the iPhone tech so that they too can sell it.

(I for one won`t be able to get an iPhone until the end of 2008 when I return to the US, or hit up Europe for a couple of years.)

The iPhone in the US is a multi-year exclusive deal with Cingular.

[JoshuaZ]

I doubt it will be locked forever. Seriously. Its bad business to be locked to one company in the long run.

[GSixZero]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

well, I'm in MA and could buy it, but if it doesn't work in NH, Maine, and VT that isn't good. New Englanders tend travel amongst the other states frequently for both work and play. Verizon wins again.

Read the article again... people can use the device where ever there is service, but cingular won't sell service to people who live in places where they don't maintain towers.

Shouldn't be an issue.

[f1000]

Thanks for the clarification, Charles. Maybe the new AT&T Wireless will be able to improve the size of the network faster.

I still think it's a good move by Apple. It makes transitioning to an international market that much easier.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

You'd want it if you lived in an area exclusively serviced by CDMA providers.

If you lived in an area exclusively serviced by CDMA providers, chances are that you are a redneck and that you really don't need an iPhone

-t

[Eug]

Rednecks buy iPods too.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Rednecks buy iPods too.

Oooh teh nozzz...

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

If you lived in an area exclusively serviced by CDMA providers, chances are that you are a redneck and that you really don't need an iPhone

-t

And if you say a thing like that, chances are that you are a bigot and that you really don't need an iPhone.

BTW, I currently live in a suburb of a major US city, and the CDMA coverage here is significantly better than GSM, to the point where there are plenty of buildings around here where CDMA will work and GSM won't. It wasn't that way when I signed up with Cingular (well, Sprint worked in those buildings, but who wants Sprint), but Verizon has upgraded their network around here and as a result it's true now.

[goMac]

Why does the article say Oregon coverage is poor. Looks fine to me.

[CharlesS]

Cingular's Oregon coverage looks like this:



What the original article says is that the service "won't be available in all or large portions" of those areas. Considering that most of the landmass of Oregon isn't covered (yes, I know the major metro areas are), I think what they said qualifies. Yes, Verizon's native coverage looks even worse. If the phone were locked to Verizon only, that would suck too.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Cingular's Oregon coverage looks like this:

Maybe I'm being naive but that doesn't match Cingular's maps at all.

Edit: Ah, I read the explanation.

[Kenneth]

I don't think it's Apple's fault. We all know the network coverage is a YMMV thing. How about other phones/mobile devices that Cingular offer?

Just like DSL/Cable Internet, it's not available in some area.

[Moderator]

I have Cingular and it works pretty well....not great but pretty well...through out Vermont. VOIP would also help bridge the gap I really can't believe Stevie bent over and took a VOIP ban.

[Dark Helmet]

Isn't there some new US law that makes it illegal to NOT allow you to unlock a phone?

They don't have to unlock it for you but they can't forcefully try to stop you or something like that.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Isn't there some new US law that makes it illegal to NOT allow you to unlock a phone?

They don't have to unlock it for you but they can't forcefully try to stop you or something like that.

I read something similar over on wiki.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And if you say a thing like that, chances are that you are a bigot and that you really don't need an iPhone..

Oh no. To say != to mean.

---->

-t

[CharlesS]

I know. Statements like that just tend to get on my nerves a bit.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I know. Statements like that just tend to get on my nerves a bit.

That's ok. You have a good disclaimer in your sig

-t

[Zeeb]

How about this. If the iphone satisfies your needs when it comes out and you want it--GET IT. If not, buy another phone with another provider. I'm sure you wont hurt Apple's feelings.

Let Apple and Cingular worry about coverage area, GSM and CDMA etc etc. You guys act like your on the iphone marketing team.

[Eriamjh]

Clearly, there are places that one shouldn't live. Like Montana.

[Drakino]

This would all be resolved if the entire telecom industry would just use one standard. GSM coverage in Europe is amazing, since so many companies overlap and provide roaming between the services. I was in south Germany near the French and Swiss borders, and my GSM phone saw 9 networks it was happy to hop onto and use. Here, I'm lucky to see 2 with a single phone, even though many more companies offer wireless phone service here.

People would throw a fit if they had to buy a SBC compatible phone, or a Qwest compatible phone or something for their landline. Why people aren't making a bigger deal out of this with cell phones is puzzling.

[gargamel123]

Cingular sucks what do you expect. They leach off everyone else to provide coverage. Cingular is probably one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with.

[macrophyllum]

I've heard that you can signup for a Cingular account by giving them an address where you "say" you live that has coverage. The people at the Cingular stores really want to sign you up, they don't really care where you live, they probably get commissions or something. Then switch your billing address online. Then just make sure you don't roam for more than 50% of your time.