[sanford]

Am I the only indefatigable Apple fan who just doesn't give a flip about the iPhone? Would much rather have new, enhanced full-sized iPods at the current prices? Or am I just sick and crazy for not wanting an iPhone?

p.s. I'm serious. I'm not being facetious. Everyone is ga-ga over this thing, and this would usually include me -- but i just can't get motivated about it.

[selowitch]

Well, it's hard to get excited about a $500 gadget that will cost you about $400 a year or more to yak on. The touchscreen and OS are definitely cool, but I'd be much happier if the thing cost $300 and could be used without a contract as a non-phone ultracompact computer with Bluetooth and Wi-Fi -- sort of a Sony Mylo with an Apple vibe. That i would buy in a second.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

Well, it's hard to get excited about a $500 gadget that will cost you about $400 a year or more to yak on. The touchscreen and OS are definitely cool, but I'd be much happier if the thing cost $300 and could be used without a contract as a non-phone ultracompact computer with Bluetooth and Wi-Fi -- sort of a Sony Mylo with an Apple vibe. That i would buy in a second.

Yeah, with video iPod features, for US$300 - 350. Exactly. I started using iCal a lot to manage my and my family's schedule, so I bought a Palm because I tired of transcribing the iCal information to my paper datebook. The Palm is okay but just not quite an Apple experience. I'd love to have the calendaring features of the iPhone, with the video and music iPod features, the other stuff they throw in, the networking capability you mention, but just no phone component. I have a cell phone and a very good plan, the original contract long expired, from T-Mobile on which they'll never raise the price or change the service limits because that's their policy. I have a 1,000 "free" minutes a month, plus nights and weekends for about $40 a month. I use about 30 minutes a month. It's not something I'd get rid of -- with a largish family, a cell phone is a great convenience -- but it's hardly something I'd upgrade to greater expense.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[GSixZero]

If you use 30 minutes a month, why bother paying for a $40 plan? I know if you changed away you could never get it back, but paying over $1 a minute seems pretty steep. You could switch to pre-paid and spend $6 a month on service.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by GSixZero 

If you use 30 minutes a month, why bother paying for a $40 plan? I know if you changed away you could never get it back, but paying over $1 a minute seems pretty steep. You could switch to pre-paid and spend $6 a month on service.

It's the never get back thing. We don't get out much: two of our children are small, I work at home; within a year or two, although I'll always work from home, the situation with getting out will change as the boys get older and my usage could go up to an average of 500 minutes. And my wife is on the same plan package, too, and she does use a lot of her minutes. It is however right now a losing proposition for me. Probably one of the main reasons I just wouldn't possibly consider paying *more* for *less* -- less service, not less phone -- with an iPhone plan right now.

[Bunit]

I'm curious about it. I hope we have some choice on plans, and not some stupid "iphone plan" I guess I'd be okay with it as long as it isn't a rip off. If the price lowers a little bit, and the plan isn't anymore than $50.00, I might look into actually getting it. If there's some sweet kickbutt feature like a slingbox where you can get any of the music on your computer on the iPhone through internet I will kill to get one. I'd love the ability to sling with it too. Think of it, you could get TV and all your music on the device.

[imitchellg5]

I like the iPhone, but I'll probably never get one. I just can't justify the price. For the cost of the iPhone, I could get a new Mac every year.

[Big Mac]

A new Mac every year? Are you talking about the price of the phone w/ contract or the price of the phone + the full price of the contract?

The iPhone looks awesome. If it lives up to its promise, it will be terrifically successful. The iPod didn't look like much of a big deal when it debuted and look what it has done to the world. In comparison, the iPhone looks to be a much stronger initial release. I'll probably stay with Verizon for a while after my contract is finished and end up switching to AT&T for iPhone 2.0. Either that or I'll fall in love with the iPhone when it's released and buy it as soon as possible.

[buymeaniphone]

Originally Posted by sanford 

Am I the only indefatigable Apple fan who just doesn't give a flip about the iPhone?

Indefatigable: adjective (of a person or their efforts) persisting tirelessly

Sorry just had to put that up in case anyone else was confused on what that word meant. As far as Sanfords statement goes...yes, you are one of the few Apple fans that doesn't give a flip. I think as a whole, most Apple fans see the iPhone as a huge step into another market and would be willing to give up their 4 button mighty mouse for the G3 "hockey puck" to even touch the iPhone.

[sanford]

Indefatigable is that far afield these days? Sorry, didn't realize.

Anyway, as I alluded to above, give me an iPhone without the phone -- at least without the traditional cell phone; they could do an iChat sort of thing over Wi-Fi if they wished -- and you have in me a paying customer on the first day. An Apple designed digital datebook with iPod w/video features and other enhancements would be most welcome; certainly surpass in elegance of quality design my not half-bad Palm device. But something for which I have to switch carriers -- to one I don't like, by the way -- sign a contract, pay a monthly subscription fee, no, no way, not at all. Had I been required to sign a one-year subscription contract at $50 a month to iTunes to buy and use an iPod, I never would have owned one.

Making it easy and simple to align yourself with a a single turnkey program -- .mac, AppleCare, Mac OS X with Macs, iLife, iTunes Store for Mac, iPod and Apple TV -- seems very much how Apple has operated since the turn of the century. A "for the rest of us" sort of deal, well executed. But providing no alternative at all but for signing a contract of a year or more with one provider, that's not at all what I expect from Apple. I'm used to Apple wooing me to their fee-based service plans, stores and manner of doing things with ease of use, convenience and quality customer service, while still providing alternatives should I wish to dig a little deeper and go my own way. I'm not at all accustomed to having Apple ram a contractual obligation with a single provider down my throat if I wish to own and use one of their products. I'm just surprised more devoted Apple customers haven't said, Hey, this isn't like my Apple at all.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

A new Mac every year? Are you talking about the price of the phone w/ contract or the price of the phone + the full price of the contract?

The iPhone looks awesome. If it lives up to its promise, it will be terrifically successful. The iPod didn't look like much of a big deal when it debuted and look what it has done to the world. In comparison, the iPhone looks to be a much stronger initial release. I'll probably stay with Verizon for a while after my contract is finished and end up switching to AT&T for iPhone 2.0. Either that or I'll fall in love with the iPhone when it's released and buy it as soon as possible.

Phone with contract. By new Mac I mean new to me (like a portable).

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Phone with contract. By new Mac I mean new to me (like a portable).

You're going to be buying a new iPhone every year?

[imitchellg5]

No, but the contract would have to be renewed right, and no telling how much it would be. I meant phone and contract for the first year. By the time you pay for the iPhone and then a contract, I could have a much-needed iBook. I know this doesn't apply to everyone, it's just my own personal stance.

[Visnaut]

I doubt that Apple will reserve the technologies currently found in the iPhone to strictly just the iPhone.

As the price of those components come down, we will definitely see some of it migrated to the iPod, and possibly another class of devices that are basically what you describe, sanford: a phone-less iPhone.

The reason I suggest that there will be a separate product line is because Apple seems to like keeping devices focused and locked to specific functionality. They will probably keep the iPod as a dedicated video/audio player. Having a separate product ensures they won't dilute the brand image of the iPod, and also give power users the chance to use such amazing hand-held technologies.

I also have a feeling that by doing so, they'll manage to keep development for the iPhone and theoretical 6G iPod locked down, but make it fully open on this imaginary "phone-less iPhone" as an alternative to those who want custom apps in a hand-held device.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by sanford 

Indefatigable is that far afield these days? Sorry, didn't realize.

Its root is "fatigue", not "defeat".

[buymeaniphone]

Well if your able to get your hands on an iPhone withouth going through Cingular or Apple (ebay) then maybe theres a chance that you could run Skype on it and use the wifi for making phone calls. Its a stretch but might be possible.

[R0CK3TM4NN]

If you're not a heavy cell phone user, or not a current Cingular user, then I guess I understand why getting a new phone with a loaded contract makes no sense. But for the casual to heavy user, how much more money are we going to be paying for the iPhone?

Last phone I got was the Razr and plunked down $200 right around when it first came out. $44.99 a month for 450 anytime minutes w/ rollover plus 200 SMS/MMS texts. Have had the Razr for 2 years now, so $200 + $44.99 * 24 months = $1,280 or about $640 a year (not including tax).

iPhone will be $500 and my contract will be up in June so I'll be extending it (regardless of if I get an iPhone or not). So if I can get 2 years of usage out of the iPhone (seeing as most phones seem to be built to last 2 years if you're lucky - please prove me wrong, Apple) then I'll be paying $1,580 for two years or $720 a year (again, not including tax). So $80 more a year for iPhone.

I COULD get the free phone, and save myself some cash, but I'm willing to pay the money for a sexy phone because, to me, the extra cost is justified for the usage experience. I mean, if we all were in it for bargain basement deals would we have Macs? I could have gotten a POS Dell for $600 but I got the Macbook for double that because I believe the better user experience is worth the cost - and so far the extra money has been worth EVERY penny!

[::maroma::]

If you want to find people who aren't giddy about the iPhone, just peruse some other forums or blogs (like Engadget or Gizmodo). The users at those places are all about bashing the iPhone at every opportunity. They are obviously not Mac fans, so I suspect most of their opinions stem from their hate of all things Apple.

As for me, I'm still pretty giddy. I've been sticking with my current phone for a long time waiting for Apple to come out with a phone. My current phone is terrible. Its ugly, hard to use, not compatible with my Mac, reception is terrible, battery life sucks, etc etc. What I hope the iPhone brings is not so much the bells and whistles (although I love those), but more the use experience as a whole. Its what makes the Mac so much better. Its what makes the iPod so much better. The Mac and the iPod don't have anything that really sets it apart from its competitors other than the user experience (which is really hard to quantify).

Personally, I'm willing to pay a premium for this. I'm hoping for a great user experience, great features, and a whole lot of fun. I'm counting the days until its in my hands.

[ccZaphod]

I've been holding off upgrading my Nokia Phone (already with Cingular). I want an iPhone bad.

I'd also love to see this technology moving into iPods and the ultra-thin laptop rumors materialize into an update of the Newton. I'm tired of people teasing me about my Newton 2100 -- it IS NOT a flatbed scanner.

Web Pad/Newton integrated into iPhone and appleTV would be really slick.

[DigitalEl]

I wasn't happy with T-Mobile and switched to Sprint last November. God, I'm kicking myself now. The rumor at the time was that the iPhone was gonna be released on all carriers simultaneously. Should've frakkin' waited.

I'm an admitted sucker for the RDF though, so I'm sure I'll be shelling out the crazy bucks on Day One next month. And praying that version one of this device is worth it. I think it will be. I'm very excited to see the unannounced features... Hopefully something that blows us all away.

[NYK Ace]

as the day comes closer to launch i find myself justifying the $175 early termination fee from verizon, plus the $500 for the iPhone, and the possibility of raising my monthly plan from $50 to whatever it takes to have an iPhone more and more..

odds are ill try to stay away to save money but will end up getting one within the first month

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

If you want to find people who aren't giddy about the iPhone, just peruse some other forums or blogs (like Engadget or Gizmodo). The users at those places are all about bashing the iPhone at every opportunity. They are obviously not Mac fans, so I suspect most of their opinions stem from their hate of all things Apple.

That's just silly. My boyfriend's dad is one of the most die-hard Mac fanatics I've ever encountered. He still owns two classic Macintoshes, as well as a slew of G3-G5 iMacs and PowerMacs. He uses nothing but Macs in his medical research lab, aside from an HP laptop needed for a particular Windows-only application.

I was talking to him about the iPhone at dinner last night, and even he thinks it's an overpriced underfeatured gadget that he will likely never buy.

A lot of the negative points made about the iPhone have some merit. Look at it from an objective, logical standpoint. For instance:

People frequently cite the iPod's runaway success as evidence that the iPhone will similarly succeed. However, the iPod was released in a technological era that saw no useful digital music players. The Archos jukeboxes were clunky, unintuitive, and pretty much just toys for hardcore geeks. The release of the iPod showed us that digital audio players could be accessible to the masses. It revolutionized the industry, but the industry was shaky and fledgling. The iPhone is being released into a very solid, very well-established industry - cellular phones. Nokia and Motorola have been releasing amazing phones for years. Look at the Razr and the Krzr - two of the most successful, popular cell phones on the market. The smart phone market, of course, is already very well-established. The latest Windows Mobile PDA phones are awesome - the interfaces are great, and Microsoft's mobile OS keeps getting better. The iPhone will be up against some stiff competition.

The iPhone, as it stands, is a limited, closed system that will really only be useful with a Mac. Its "smart phone" abilities, as of now, are not going to be compatible with the two biggest communications applications in the computer world - Microsoft Outlook and IBM's Lotus Notes. Business people who can afford smartphones (and aren't provided them by their employers) are most definitely not going to purchase a phone that's incompatible with the application that basically contains their life - their schedules, contacts, emails, etc. You cannot deny any of this. It is not subjective, Mac-hating rhetoric. It's simple facts and logic.

The iPhone's price is not justified. Sure, it's got a decent amount of flash memory for a cell phone, but all the high-end phones and smartphones have SD, MicroSD, and/or CF slots, allowing you to expand your usable memory quite a bit. With 1GB flash cards being as cheap as $10 now, $400 for a phone with 4GB flash memory really doesn't cut it anymore. Times have changed. The first iPods were something like $400 for a 5GB hard drive. But when the iPod was released to the public, microdrives were very new and very expensive. Flash cards for digital cameras were available in 32MB and 64MB sizes, with 128MB and 256MB being too pricey for the average user. Now we have 80GB iPods and 4GB flash cards for our digital cameras, PDAs, and other devices - and the prices make them accessible to just about anyone. Again, this isn't subjective. This is just looking at it from a logical perspective.

It's possible to be a fan of something without blindly accepting anything it tells you or produces. Apple is not a cult. It's not Scientology. It's a computer company. It's possible to admit that something they do might not be perfect. Those who discredit the iPhones should not be automatically labeled as "obviously not Mac fans" - I would imagine the folks and Gizmodo love OS X and Apple's computer offerings - they just see the flaws in the iPhone that fanboys are consciously blinding themselves to.

[msuper69]

Totally OT but after reading your sig I had to say that I certainly don't hate you yet - nor would I ever based on your sig. How refreshing.

[krove]

After paying $200 to get a Moto Razr when it was released, I finally gave it away to a friend a month ago. I couldn't stand the user interface slowness any longer. The damn thing literally makes you wait to do anything after hanging up a call to watch it's dumb "hang-up-the-phone" animation. It's only a few seconds long, but i don't want to watch an animation when I have another call to make or a text message to send.

It is this kind of ridiculous UI design (or lack thereof) that drove Apple to make the iPhone. Of course, it's pros and cons will speak for themselves when I get my hands on one. Just from demonstrations, however, the UI and multi-touch alone will be worth every penny.

[murphy245]

iphone has its place in the market,if you want a cheapy phone with a crappy interface the world is your oyster,but just dont bash the iphone becouse you cant afford it.

[butterfly0fdoom]

The thing about the iPhone is that it seems, to me at least, more like a smartphone for casual people (if you ignore the pricing). It's more of a lifestyle smartphone than an enterprising smartphone.

That said, most cellphone interfaces drive me insane; the only cellphones (aside from the iPhone) I'd ever buy are Nokias (at least the Symbian ones) and Sony Ericssons just because their UI designs are great.

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by shifuimam

The latest Windows Mobile PDA phones are awesome - the interfaces are great...

All credibility lost when you got to that. Windows Mobile interface... Great?

And to answer your sig question... Um, yeah.

[GSixZero]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The latest Windows Mobile PDA phones are awesome - the interfaces are great, and Microsoft's mobile OS keeps getting better. The iPhone will be up against some stiff competition.

I grudgingly use a windows mobile 5 PocketPC that my work gave me and it has the worst user interface every. It's a joke. I've had it for 6 months and I still don't really feel comfortable working with it since it's such a mess.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The iPhone, as it stands, is a limited, closed system that will really only be useful with a Mac. Its "smart phone" abilities, as of now, are not going to be compatible with the two biggest communications applications in the computer world - Microsoft Outlook and IBM's Lotus Notes. Business people who can afford smartphones (and aren't provided them by their employers) are most definitely not going to purchase a phone that's incompatible with the application that basically contains their life - their schedules, contacts, emails, etc. You cannot deny any of this. It is not subjective, Mac-hating rhetoric. It's simple facts and logic.

I think I'm going to deny a lot of this. Blackberries don't run office, and we all know how popular they are with business people.

Regardless... You're right about one thing. The iPod became popular because it made the MP3 player accessible and easy to use, and I think tons of people have been waiting for a cellphone that does the same thing. Yeah the market is way more mature, but I don't think any company has made a really good handset yet.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Originally Posted by GSixZero 

Yeah the market is way more mature, but I don't think any company has made a really good handset yet.

I could argue against that, but "good" is pretty subjective.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

That's just silly. My boyfriend's dad is one of the most die-hard Mac fanatics I've ever encountered. He still owns two classic Macintoshes, as well as a slew of G3-G5 iMacs and PowerMacs. He uses nothing but Macs in his medical research lab, aside from an HP laptop needed for a particular Windows-only application.

I was talking to him about the iPhone at dinner last night, and even he thinks it's an overpriced underfeatured gadget that he will likely never buy.

A lot of the negative points made about the iPhone have some merit. Look at it from an objective, logical standpoint. For instance:

People frequently cite the iPod's runaway success as evidence that the iPhone will similarly succeed. However, the iPod was released in a technological era that saw no useful digital music players. The Archos jukeboxes were clunky, unintuitive, and pretty much just toys for hardcore geeks. The release of the iPod showed us that digital audio players could be accessible to the masses. It revolutionized the industry, but the industry was shaky and fledgling. The iPhone is being released into a very solid, very well-established industry - cellular phones. Nokia and Motorola have been releasing amazing phones for years. Look at the Razr and the Krzr - two of the most successful, popular cell phones on the market. The smart phone market, of course, is already very well-established. The latest Windows Mobile PDA phones are awesome - the interfaces are great, and Microsoft's mobile OS keeps getting better. The iPhone will be up against some stiff competition.

The iPhone, as it stands, is a limited, closed system that will really only be useful with a Mac. Its "smart phone" abilities, as of now, are not going to be compatible with the two biggest communications applications in the computer world - Microsoft Outlook and IBM's Lotus Notes. Business people who can afford smartphones (and aren't provided them by their employers) are most definitely not going to purchase a phone that's incompatible with the application that basically contains their life - their schedules, contacts, emails, etc. You cannot deny any of this. It is not subjective, Mac-hating rhetoric. It's simple facts and logic.

The iPhone's price is not justified. Sure, it's got a decent amount of flash memory for a cell phone, but all the high-end phones and smartphones have SD, MicroSD, and/or CF slots, allowing you to expand your usable memory quite a bit. With 1GB flash cards being as cheap as $10 now, $400 for a phone with 4GB flash memory really doesn't cut it anymore. Times have changed. The first iPods were something like $400 for a 5GB hard drive. But when the iPod was released to the public, microdrives were very new and very expensive. Flash cards for digital cameras were available in 32MB and 64MB sizes, with 128MB and 256MB being too pricey for the average user. Now we have 80GB iPods and 4GB flash cards for our digital cameras, PDAs, and other devices - and the prices make them accessible to just about anyone. Again, this isn't subjective. This is just looking at it from a logical perspective.

It's possible to be a fan of something without blindly accepting anything it tells you or produces. Apple is not a cult. It's not Scientology. It's a computer company. It's possible to admit that something they do might not be perfect. Those who discredit the iPhones should not be automatically labeled as "obviously not Mac fans" - I would imagine the folks and Gizmodo love OS X and Apple's computer offerings - they just see the flaws in the iPhone that fanboys are consciously blinding themselves to.

Woah there! I wasn't suggesting that you have to be a Mac fan in order to like the iPhone. Nor did I suggest the opposite. I was merely saying that at places unlike MacNN (a Mac specific forum) there are plenty of people who don't like the iPhone. And in my own observations, places like those are populated by people who will hate anything Apple puts out no matter what it is.

But I will say that all of these people (your boyfriend's dad included) who bash the iPhone (a product no one knows a whole lot about) isn't giving it a chance (and frankly, your boyfriend's dad should have his Mac Fan License taken away from him.. he obviously doesn't know Apple too well). And I will also say that people who blindly say it will be a success are jumping the gun quite a bit. People who discount the iPhone based on price and features are being ignorant, and will most likely change their tune (or revise it) when its finally released, and we get what will ACTUALLY be included in the feature set. What we know now is what Apple wanted us to know. Its definitely not the whole package.

So, that being said, I will say that my personal opinion on the iPhone is "wait and see". I will neither say it will be a success nor a failure. I have learned from my many many years of following Apple that to predict something such as this is foolish at best. I'm not saying the iPhone is the same beast as the iPod, but how quickly do people forget what went on shortly before the iPod was released. There were hordes of people crying out loud that the iPod would spell the end for Apple. It was overpriced, underfeatured, and had no real market other than the rich kids who's parents will buy them anything they want. It kinda feels like deja vu all over again.

And I also have to disagree on your statement that there are great cell phones out there already. The Razr is a popular phone, but its a bad phone. Every single person I know who has one (I'd say about 20 or so) dislikes it. They got it because of how it looks and the marketing behind it. Also, I hear nothing but complaints about any smart phone I have ever asked anyone about. I have yet to hear someone praise their smart phone.

Just because a market is saturated with products, does not make that market one in which someone can't come along and completely change it. The cell phone market is full of garbage today. There are thousands upon thousands of phones to choose from, yet none of them are any good. Sure some have their strong points, but they all fall short in major areas. And regardless of market research, polls, or anything else out there, I am going off of my own personal experience. I have owned about 8 different cell phones in my life so far, and not one of them was worth the money I spent on the plans. And based on the solutions Apple has offered for different problems in the past, I am extremely excited that finally someone has made a cell phone that I will enjoy using. Will it be the iPod of the mobile phone market? Probably not, but to discount it based on price and what we know about it today alone, is ridiculous.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by krove 

It is this kind of ridiculous UI design (or lack thereof) that drove Apple to make the iPhone. Of course, it's pros and cons will speak for themselves when I get my hands on one. Just from demonstrations, however, the UI and multi-touch alone will be worth every penny.

This is actually one of the things I like about my Verizon phones - I have a personal and a corporate cell, both with Verizon. They use Verizon's own firmware, which does limit some features (that are easy to modify via a seem editor and a USB cable), but enables a more fluid interface that requires no learning curve when upgrading your phone. I am not particularly impressed with Motorola's own interface on their phones, but Verizon's UI on my V325 and LG phone works great, is intuitive, and hasn't given me any performance problems.

Originally Posted by GSixZero 

I grudgingly use a windows mobile 5 PocketPC that my work gave me and it has the worst user interface every. It's a joke. I've had it for 6 months and I still don't really feel comfortable working with it since it's such a mess.

The Windows Mobile 5 interface isn't that bad. The only thing that frustrates me is that closing an application doesn't actually stop its process - but that is easily fixed by freeware plugins. Otherwise, it works just fine for what it is - a pocket data management device.

Which is the main turn-off for the iPhone, at least to me. I'm not dropping $400 on something that runs a closed system that, from reports I have seen, will not allow users to program their own apps for it.

I think I'm going to deny a lot of this. Blackberries don't run office, and we all know how popular they are with business people.

No, they don't, but they do sync with Exchange, Notes, and even Novell Groupwise. Apple is shooting themselves in the foot if they (a)don't make the iPhone compatible with other email/PIM apps out-of-the-box and (b)don't allow others to write the applications that would allow the iPhone to be compatible with other email/PIM apps.

If Apple does, however, provide compatibility with major communications applications (and other widely used email apps, like Outlook Express and Thunderbird), that would be a big plus in my book.

Regardless... You're right about one thing. The iPod became popular because it made the MP3 player accessible and easy to use, and I think tons of people have been waiting for a cellphone that does the same thing. Yeah the market is way more mature, but I don't think any company has made a really good handset yet.

I just don't know if I can agree with that. Nokia's got some pretty great interfaces on their phones. I've already mentioned that Verizon's UI is pretty damn good, all things considered.

One of the biggest points against the iPhone is that it's all touchscreen. What if you're wearing gloves? What if you're driving? The lack of tactile feedback when pressing buttons while trying to drive would really suck. Voice dialing is great, but sometimes you simply need to press a button or two.

If any of you want to buy an iPhone, that's peachy in my book. I, however, even if I was a Cingular customer, would hold off until (a)all of the inevtiable interface and hardware flaws are worked out in a later revision of the device and (b)my concerns with the UI, hardware, and software are laid to rest.

By (a) alone, I would caution any of you against rushing out to drop $400 or more on one of these. Apple's latest hardware offerings have been notorious for being buggy and flawed on intial releases (and yes, I'm sure that there are people here who have not had a single problem with their MacBooks or MacBook Pros, but there are enough reports out there of major flaws and issues that it's something to considere with the iPhone as well). There's no telling what kind of problems people are going to have with the UI, the OS, the firmware, the software, etc. Last thing you would want is a $400 paperweight.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

(and frankly, your boyfriend's dad should have his Mac Fan License taken away from him.. he obviously doesn't know Apple too well)

Okay, that's just silly - and relatively ignorant. All I said was that my boyfriend's dad is a long time Apple customer and simply has yet to see any merit in buying an iPhone himself. That doesn't mean that he is ignorant or doesn't know Apple well. It simply means that he is a prudent user of technology who isn't going to buy into the iPhone purely based on the fact that Apple made it. Being a fan or loyal customer of something does not mean being a blind cult follower of it.

I'm glad that at least you aren't blanketly saying that the iPhone is going to be a raging success. I don't believe it's going to be a raging failure, either. But I do think that some people are going to buy it and be sorely disappointed, and that it may not live up to the hype that the fanboys have put behind it. Others may be thrilled with it. Take the Apple TV - I think it's a waste of money and a silly device that doesn't have much real functionality. Others think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But it's good to look at it objectively - we DON'T know that much about it. What I know so far makes me want to avoid it for now. That opinion may very well change when it is released. I do, though, choose to not accept something that Apple announces or produces as "awesome" just because it's from Apple.

[krove]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

By (a) alone, I would caution any of you against rushing out to drop $400 or more on one of these. Apple's latest hardware offerings have been notorious for being buggy and flawed on intial releases (and yes, I'm sure that there are people here who have not had a single problem with their MacBooks or MacBook Pros, but there are enough reports out there of major flaws and issues that it's something to considere with the iPhone as well). There's no telling what kind of problems people are going to have with the UI, the OS, the firmware, the software, etc. Last thing you would want is a $400 paperweight.

My Apple TV works great, and I haven't so much as heard a peep from others about problems with it. It is rock solid. Any product will inevitably have some minor problems at the outset of a new manufacturing run, but with Q/A those problems really are limited. The problem is that the only people that come out to these forums are those with those problems, so the defect is magnified to the public. It might only affect 1% of buyers, but if these are the only people complaining, it sounds like Apple royally screwed up. That's not to say that missing these defects is excusably, it just explains this perception of never-buy-a-gen-1-apple-product mantra that so many espouse around here.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by krove 

My Apple TV works great, and I haven't so much as heard a peep from others about problems with it. It is rock solid. Any product will inevitably have some minor problems at the outset of a new manufacturing run, but with Q/A those problems really are limited. The problem is that the only people that come out to these forums are those with those problems, so the defect is magnified to the public. It might only affect 1% of buyers, but if these are the only people complaining, it sounds like Apple royally screwed up. That's not to say that missing these defects is excusably, it just explains this perception of never-buy-a-gen-1-apple-product mantra that so many espouse around here.

A good point. I also haven't heard of any problems with the Apple TV - I just think that it's a little too pricey for what it does, and it wouldn't fit into my own home theatre system at all, as far as functionality goes. I was referring more to the problems people have had with batteries and displays and cracked/stained plastics on the MB and MBP.

I'm never an early adopter when it comes to electronics - I like to see the bugs get worked out in a few revisions before I spend my hard-earned cash on something. It just seems to make more sense that way.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Okay, that's just silly - and relatively ignorant. All I said was that my boyfriend's dad is a long time Apple customer and simply has yet to see any merit in buying an iPhone himself. That doesn't mean that he is ignorant or doesn't know Apple well. It simply means that he is a prudent user of technology who isn't going to buy into the iPhone purely based on the fact that Apple made it. Being a fan or loyal customer of something does not mean being a blind cult follower of it.

First, I was saying that in jest. It was meant as a joke, but I realize it probably came across as not so funny. I merely made that statement in defense of my first statement in which you decided to compare me to your boyfriend's dad. Which to me said that you were insulting my Mac/Apple fandom (and I don't take kindly to that! ). And the way you worded it, it sounded like you were saying that since your boyfriend's dad isn't gah-gah over the iPhone, then it will be a failure (since your boyfriend's dad is a true Mac fan and we're all just zealots). I realize you didn't say that specifically, but that's what I got from it.

I think we are both on the same page here when it comes to the iPhone. I think that jumping to any conclusion either way is not a smart thing to do at this point. Maybe with other companies, one can predict things accurately, but with a company like Apple, its a much harder thing. With the way they keep secrets, and their penchant for surprises, I'm not one to put all my eggs in a particular basket. I've seen Apple surprise us as well as disappoint us with their releases. I'm definitely hoping for a pleasant surprise with the iPhone, but I'm not going to be betting my life savings on it.

[selowitch]

I still like Sanford's idea, basically an updated, horizontally oriented Apple Newton with Wi-Fi, maybe Bluetooth and awesome, intutive integration with AddressBook, iCal, Mail, and Safari, for about $350.00. Forget trying to replicate a stripped-down version of Mac OS X on the thing, just use some variant of Linux with special software aimed at Apple functionality. That's what I would do if my name were Steven Paul Jobs. Think of it as an accessory to the Macintosh, not a Macintosh in its own right.

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

I still like Sanford's idea, basically an updated, horizontally oriented Apple Newton with Wi-Fi, maybe Bluetooth and awesome, intutive integration with AddressBook, iCal, Mail, and Safari, for about $350.00. Forget trying to replicate a stripped-down version of Mac OS X on the thing, just use some variant of Linux with special software aimed at Apple functionality. That's what I would do if my name were Steven Paul Jobs. Think of it as an accessory to the Macintosh, not a Macintosh in its own right.

OS X would be perfect for a new Newton. Linux-no way in hell would Steve Jobs even think of such an abomination when he has a perfectly good OS.

God you people come up with the strangest ideas.

[david8776]

When will iPhone be released on earth? Some articles say the release date is June, 15th. But, we can not pre-order it from Apple.com now.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

Forget trying to replicate a stripped-down version of Mac OS X on the thing, just use some variant of Linux with special software aimed at Apple functionality.

Why would Apple waste time starting from scratch on a Linux OS when they already have a robust and mature unix based OS with familiar APIs, which they're now on the verge of releasing a mobile version of it? It makes no business sense.

Apple arguably now will have the best handheld OS on the market. I see no reason why they won't capitalize further on the investment they made in developing that OS by putting it in other handheld devices, like the iPod, eventually.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by david8776 

When will iPhone be released on earth? Some articles say the release date is June, 15th. But, we can not pre-order it from Apple.com now.

No one knows for sure at this point. All we know is June sometime. I presume that they'll start taking orders in mid June and start sending out units towards the end of June.