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AppleJockey · 06:50 PM

as much as I love apple; I found this article interesting
and pretty much on point in regards to the iphone and SOME of its issues

The Unfinished iPhone: iPhone vs. Windows Mobile > The Interface

BRussell · Jul 11, 2007, 03:36 PM

"Of all the places you would expect the iPhone to shine, it would be with its ability to play music and video. For what it is worth, Apple’s interface to its "iPod" application is nice — assuming you are a big purchaser of commercial RIAA-sanctioned music. If you personally despise such draconian oversight, then the nice way the screen shifts from text list to graphical album cover (i.e. Cover Flow) when your switch the iPhone to landscape position is pretty useless. Since I only listen to music well outside of the RIAA's reach, all of my Cover Flow icons are nothing but a simple music note in the middle of a square. Um…thanks for nothing Apple. In addition, the only way you can get music onto the device is via iTunes — a DRM loaded and bloated piece of malware (yes, this is an opinion). "

This sounds a lot like what people have said for years, that "the iPod only plays music that was purchased through iTunes." And of course it's total nonsense. You can get album art anywhere on the internet, and it doesn't need to have been purchased from iTunes. Yes, my friend, you can even put your stolen music and its album art on the iPhone.

icruise · Jul 11, 2007, 03:50 PM

Good lord. I've been adding cover art manually for my stuff for years.

I like this paragraph:

Third Party Applications
There are none for the iPhone — and this is why my iPhone will be returned. On a regular basis I review PPT presentations, chat via AIM and MSN, SSH into servers, use remote desktop, play games, do security related activities, and much more, all from my Windows Mobile phone. With a large developer base, Windows Mobile users have over 18,000 possible software titles they can install. Games, media apps, productivity tools, and much more are all available to the user, most of which you can download right to the phone and install. So, why would you want to pay more for a phone that does less?

Yep, fair and balanced right there (I particularly like the two "and much mores" right after one another). It reads like Microsoft PR. I do think that the iPhone could stand to imitate the "home screen" of Windows Mobile, though -- just tastefully.

::maroma:: · Jul 11, 2007, 03:50 PM

Yeah that is total crap. Another case of someone who is supposed to know what they are doing, absolutely dropping the ball and making themselves look like a total idiot. There are many many ways to get album art onto your personally ripped, or legally or illegally downloaded music. iTunes makes it super easy, if you know how to Copy/Paste.

This is why I stopped reading these so called "reviews" by so called "journalists". Every single review I've read complains about at least 1 thing that is completely wrong or misinformed. Whats worse is people believe this crap, simply because its in the guise of a reputable source.

The Internet has become a cesspool of horrid journalism. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "I read on the Internet that...." and then proceeds to say something completely false. I no longer correct them. I just sigh, nod and smile, and change the subject.

icruise · Jul 11, 2007, 03:59 PM

Or this:

In fact, the iPhone is really nothing more than a tease — it’s full of potential, but thanks to DRM and a very restrictive environment it is a disappointment.

I agree with the idea that it has a lot of potential, but what does DRM have to do with anything?

mdc · Jul 11, 2007, 04:05 PM

What bothers me are these journalists who are saying the iPhone is $500 or $600 and then $2,000 over two years for the device, then go on to bash it against their beloved cellphone, but neglect to mention that their beloved cellphone also has to have the same $2,000 fee on it.
They make it seem like only with the iPhone do you have to pay monthly fees.

Even ignoring the monthly fee issue, this person's article was a waste of 10 minutes of my life.

Once again my Windows Mobile phone outshines the iPhone’s picture taking abilities. While the camera is only 1.3 megapixel, the software on my Windows Mobile phone includes the ability to take a picture, send it via email or MMS, assign a picture to a contact, create cute dual picture themes, has adjustments for lighting/speed/zoom, does burst images, and…does video. Um, is it me or does the iPhone really fall short on this category?

While the iPhone doesn't do video or picture adjustments, it does let you email and assign photos as contact pictures. Unfortunately Apple did drop the ball on this one because cute dual picture themes are the future of cellphone photos, and I want in.

icruise · Jul 11, 2007, 04:09 PM

Exactly. Apparently all other phones are free to use.

Tomchu · Jul 11, 2007, 04:16 PM

He's got a point about applications. How is he unfairly bashing the iPhone there? Windows Mobile *is* a more flexible platform from that point of view.

::maroma:: · Jul 11, 2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Or this:

I agree with the idea that it has a lot of potential, but what does DRM have to do with anything?

It has to do with him being too ignorant to deal with DRM music. The iPhone isn't a tease, its too far out of his scope of understanding and problem solving.

And on his point about the "restrictive environment", I will quote the always eloquent Andy Inhatko and say [in reference to the iPhone's closed nature] "I don't mind living under a dictatorship, as long as that dictator gives me what I want and makes my life easier."

Its obvious that not everyone is the same. Some can't deal with restrictions, even when those restrictions bare no burden on them at all. They just can't stand the principle of it. Others, like me, don't mind as long as its not keeping me from getting my work done, or having fun. And personally, Apple's closed environment(s) make me happy. Not because of the restrictions, but because those restrictions make the experience of using Apple's devices a joy. Seamless, extremely well integrated, very secure experiences with my digital devices is something I need. And Apple delivers. Microsoft does not.

icruise · Jul 11, 2007, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

He's got a point about applications. How is he unfairly bashing the iPhone there? Windows Mobile *is* a more flexible platform from that point of view.

Actually, I agree that having third-party applications would be preferable (although for me it's not a dealbreaker because in general Apple makes such great first-party software). My quibble is with how he says what he's saying. The whole "review" had a forgone conclusion. He knew he wasn't going to like it from the beginning.

::maroma:: · Jul 11, 2007, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

He's got a point about applications. How is he unfairly bashing the iPhone there? Windows Mobile *is* a more flexible platform from that point of view.

He sure does have a point. But he chose to leave out that having access to untold amounts of 3rd party apps opens up the very device he claims to use as a serious business/productivity device to serious bugs/viruses/etc. Thereby rendering his device useless or at the least a royal pain in the arse to use until he gets it fixed or cleaned out.

People love to make these claims but never look at the bad side of those claims. In a perfect world, of course it would be great to have your smart phone opened up to the entire universe. But there are bad people out there, there are bad programmers, and there are lots of them. I prefer a closed, safe environment. And I realize there are those that do not, and I don't disagree with their preference. That's why there are Blackberrys, Treos, and a hundred other devices out there that they can choose from.

dpicardi · Jul 11, 2007, 06:58 PM

Would have loved to see this guys review after the FIRST WM device came out.

Remember how absolutely crappy those were?

Sheesh.

This guy clearly loves his WM device and he is welcome to it. Me, I'll take an iPhone with its -18,000 apps any day.

MaxwellsMac · Jul 12, 2007, 07:49 AM

As a previous owner of an HTC 8125 (the windows mobile SP he references) I can tell you that although it does several things fairly well it also crashes and freezes fairly often just like all smart phones running windows. Yes, you get a lot of choices for apps and customization of the UI but ultimately for me the headache's outweighed all of that. I'm currently using a Nokia N80 SP running Symbian and it's much more intuitive in the user interface as opposed to Windows Mobile IMHO. My iPhone is currently on order from Apple so I can't comment there although his review felt flat and unbalanced to me. I'm hoping I don't agree with him.

Max

vln2 · Jul 12, 2007, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by MaxwellsMac

As a previous owner of an HTC 8125 (the windows mobile SP he references) I can tell you that although it does several things fairly well it also crashes and freezes fairly often just like all smart phones running windows. Yes, you get a lot of choices for apps and customization of the UI but ultimately for me the headache's outweighed all of that. I'm currently using a Nokia N80 SP running Symbian and it's much more intuitive in the user interface as opposed to Windows Mobile IMHO. My iPhone is currently on order from Apple so I can't comment there although his review felt flat and unbalanced to me. I'm hoping I don't agree with him.

I don’t think you will be disappointed with the iPhone. I bought Nokia N75 (same Symbian S60) for my wife switching to AT&T and even though it has many, many choices it really does not compare to the iPhone.
Here is something interesting: Nokia Web Browser uses Apple software for main elements of its stack. You can find it on their website. That means that they used elements of mobile Safari before iPhone did. Problem is that really did not help them because total web pages do not look like they do on iPhone. Nokia Web Browser is little better then on the average smart phone but not what you see on iPhone. Yes, you have software Flash and a real flash but that one is good for few feet and I like pictures from iPhone better then those with flash on N75. Granted if you want pictures it is better to use a real camera.

I used WM on and off for 8 years. There are few features here and there I miss but I’d say that overall it is quality of available features on iPhone that separates it from WM devices. Yes, there are million of applications available (most of them junk) yet the author failed to mention how limited the memory is. Mine had 64 MB of running memory shared between applications and storage. Newer ones have 128 MB and that fills up very quickly. Yes, I had 2Gig SD card with pictures and movies but this is it unless you want a collection of SD cards. You have to go at least once a day and quit running applications to make memory available for others. Also almost daily you have to reboot your phone.
Screen quality is number one issue with WM devices, it is terrible. In fact newer screens were worse and dimmer then the one on my aging T-Mobile HP IPAQ. Screens break very easy and you can scratch them holding a pen with the phone in your pocket. I think T-Mobile replaced (for free) four of my Pocket PCs – two of each model all with broken screens. iPhone screen seems lot more durable.
I never liked sliding keyboards or buttons on Blueberry, virtual keyboard worked for me with the stylus. It took me about 5 days on iPone to get close to typing speed with stylus.
I think my Pocket PC WiFi was little more sensitive picking extra Access Points in range but once connected to WiFi it was much, much slower then iPhone is.
I believe that soon Apple will release Flash upgrade so it is a non-issue. One thing I miss is ability to use Bluetooth GPS antenna. I like Google Maps solution on iPhone though and I believe they will fix it either through software update or in the next version.
I was using DVD-To-PocketPC software to transfer movies now I will have to use something else. I am used to Outlook and I miss week view and little triangles for appointments. Dots are barely visible but that part could be fixed later. So far Contacts and Calendar are Syncing fine so I am happy. Visual Voicemail is great.

vln2 · Jul 12, 2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by MaxwellsMac

I'm currently using a Nokia N80 SP running Symbian and it's much more intuitive in the user interface as opposed to Windows Mobile IMHO. My iPhone is currently on order from Apple so I can't comment there although his review felt flat and unbalanced to me. I'm hoping I don't agree with him.

Wait, I just realized that your Nokia N80 has 3G. I would not buy current iPhone and instead wait until 3G version of iPhone - probably 6+ months. I think you can get by with what you have just fine unless you can afford $600 for half a year of play time. As you probably noticed Edge is OK for email but not for browsing. I used my wife's N75 in Tampa on 3G and it was a pleasant experience.

amazing · Jul 12, 2007, 06:11 PM

vin2: do you also go around trying to persuade people not to buy Champagne, on the proven fact that there's another harvest coming out soon--and that it's gonna taste better than the current crop? Or do you go around trying to persuade people to buy Coca-Cola instead of Champagne, on the theory that Colas also have bubbles? Or that Andre's Bubbly tastes exactly the same as Champagne?

'Cause that's exactly what you're trying to do here...

Give it over: people who have a taste for Champagne aren't gonna switch to Coca-Cola.

Big Mac · Jul 12, 2007, 06:27 PM

The coverflow critique is so stupid it defies explanation.

As for third party apps, it's outrageous to compare iPhone support to the Windows Mobile platform that has been around for at least a decade now, if not longer. I expect Apple to release a proper SDK at some point in the near future (it only makes sense to do so because the iPhone runs on OS X and is billed as being close to a real computer), but to expect full third party developer support at launch is just plain idiotic.

MaxwellsMac · Jul 12, 2007, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by vln2

Wait, I just realized that your Nokia N80 has 3G. I would not buy current iPhone and instead wait until 3G version of iPhone - probably 6+ months. I think you can get by with what you have just fine unless you can afford $600 for half a year of play time. As you probably noticed Edge is OK for email but not for browsing. I used my wife's N75 in Tampa on 3G and it was a pleasant experience.

I don't currently even use the N80 with AT&T's data plans so the 3G issue is moot for me right now. I do use the wi-fi capabilities but I have to admit that surfing the web on such a small screen is not exactly fun. I know that I'll be forced to add a data plan when I activate my iphone but I've heard that you can cancel that part of your plan should you so choose. Can anyone confirm this? I may just keep it though since I got hit for around 20 bucks last month anyway using sms to schedule my weekly poker night with my buddies. Shuffle up and deal!

vln2 · Jul 12, 2007, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Give it over: people who have a taste for Champagne aren't gonna switch to Coca-Cola.

If you have something to add to the discussion about WM or S60 go ahead. I suspect you don't and the post shows it.

icruise · Jul 12, 2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by MaxwellsMac

I know that I'll be forced to add a data plan when I activate my iphone but I've heard that you can cancel that part of your plan should you so choose. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I think it would be difficult to have an iPhone without a data plan. Visual Voicemail seems to download the voicemail files using EDGE, for example.

AppleJockey · Jul 12, 2007, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Its obvious that not everyone is the same. Some can't deal with restrictions, even when those restrictions bare no burden on them at all. They just can't stand the principle of it. Others, like me, don't mind as long as its not keeping me from getting my work done, or having fun. And personally, Apple's closed environment(s) make me happy. Not because of the restrictions, but because those restrictions make the experience of using Apple's devices a joy. Seamless, extremely well integrated, very secure experiences with my digital devices is something I need. And Apple delivers. Microsoft does not.

I agree 1000%

MaxwellsMac · Jul 12, 2007, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I think it would be difficult to have an iPhone without a data plan. Visual Voicemail seems to download the voicemail files using EDGE, for example.

Good Point. Didn't even think about this. Ah well, I would probably keep it anyway as I do find myself texting more often these days.

AppleJockey · Jul 12, 2007, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by MaxwellsMac

As a previous owner of an HTC 8125 (the windows mobile SP he references) I can tell you that although it does several things fairly well it also crashes and freezes fairly often just like all smart phones running windows. Yes, you get a lot of choices for apps and customization of the UI but ultimately for me the headache's outweighed all of that. I'm currently using a Nokia N80 SP running Symbian and it's much more intuitive in the user interface as opposed to Windows Mobile IMHO. My iPhone is currently on order from Apple so I can't comment there although his review felt flat and unbalanced to me. I'm hoping I don't agree with him.

Max

I am using an nokia on symbian
I have no issues
isyc is working fine with the device
however I am sure that the iphone is sure tohave a much more seamless sync

Originally Posted by vln2

I don’t think you will be disappointed with the iPhone. I bought Nokia N75 (same Symbian S60) for my wife switching to AT&T and even though it has many, many choices it really does not compare to the iPhone.
Here is something interesting: Nokia Web Browser uses Apple software for main elements of its stack. You can find it on their website. That means that they used elements of mobile Safari before iPhone did. Problem is that really did not help them because total web pages do not look like they do on iPhone. Nokia Web Browser is little better then on the average smart phone but not what you see on iPhone. Yes, you have software Flash and a real flash but that one is good for few feet and I like pictures from iPhone better then those with flash on N75. Granted if you want pictures it is better to use a real camera.

Screen quality is number one issue with WM devices, it is terrible. In fact newer screens were worse and dimmer then the one on my aging T-Mobile HP IPAQ. Screens break very easy and you can scratch them holding a pen with the phone in your pocket. I think T-Mobile replaced (for free) four of my Pocket PCs – two of each model all with broken screens. iPhone screen seems lot more durable.
I never liked sliding keyboards or buttons on Blueberry, virtual keyboard worked for me with the stylus. It took me about 5 days on iPone to get close to typing speed with stylus.
I think my Pocket PC WiFi was little more sensitive picking extra Access Points in range but once connected to WiFi it was much, much slower then iPhone is.
I believe that soon Apple will release Flash upgrade so it is a non-issue. One thing I miss is ability to use Bluetooth GPS antenna. I like Google Maps solution on iPhone though and I believe they will fix it either through software update or in the next version.
I was using DVD-To-PocketPC software to transfer movies now I will have to use something else. I am used to Outlook and I miss week view and little triangles for appointments. Dots are barely visible but that part could be fixed later. So far Contacts and Calendar are Syncing fine so I am happy. Visual Voicemail is great.

call me cheap
but one of the main reasons I love my phone is because it exploits tzones and I get full internet browsing

Originally Posted by Big Mac

The coverflow critique is so stupid it defies explanation.

As for third party apps, it's outrageous to compare iPhone support to the Windows Mobile platform that has been around for at least a decade now, if not longer. I expect Apple to release a proper SDK at some point in the near future (it only makes sense to do so because the iPhone runs on OS X and is billed as being close to a real computer), but to expect full third party developer support at launch is just plain idiotic.

quite so

Amorya · Jul 12, 2007, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

The coverflow critique is so stupid it defies explanation.

As for third party apps, it's outrageous to compare iPhone support to the Windows Mobile platform that has been around for at least a decade now, if not longer. I expect Apple to release a proper SDK at some point in the near future (it only makes sense to do so because the iPhone runs on OS X and is billed as being close to a real computer), but to expect full third party developer support at launch is just plain idiotic.

No, the third party apps thing is a fair point.

If Apple had informed developers that an SDK would be coming soon, or when they'd worked out the bugs, there would be none (or a lot less) of this bitching. But what they did was said "If you want to write apps, just write web pages instead! See, they're just as good!" That doesn't lead people to believe an SDK is coming.

I do think expecting third party app support from launch is appropriate. Other platforms manage. If that was not possible, then the only way of saving face would be to inform the devs that it was delayed rather than not happening. This they did not do.

Amorya

icruise · Jul 12, 2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Amorya

If Apple had informed developers that an SDK would be coming soon, or when they'd worked out the bugs, there would be none (or a lot less) of this bitching. But what they did was said "If you want to write apps, just write web pages instead! See, they're just as good!" That doesn't lead people to believe an SDK is coming.

I agree.

I do think expecting third party app support from launch is appropriate. Other platforms manage. If that was not possible, then the only way of saving face would be to inform the devs that it was delayed rather than not happening. This they did not do.

Which platforms in particular were you thinking of? Most are not made by companies developing both the hardware and the software from scratch at the same time. I think it's fair to give Apple a little leeway in this regard, but as you say, all they would have to do is tell people that an SDK is coming (even many months away) and most would be satisfied.

BRussell · Jul 13, 2007, 12:13 AM

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple never opened this up for anyone to install their own software. I can see them aggressively pushing software via iTunes, both free updates and paid games and things, while retaining complete control over what can be installed.