[sanford]

For iPhone owners, what could Apple introduce tomorrow exclusive to the full-sized touch iPod to make you snap up one right away even though you already have an iPhone? Don't count storage as most people with large collections already made the storage trade-off decision if they bought an iPhone.

Personally, beyond HDD type storage I don't think Apple will update anything in a touch iPod they don't immediately add to the iPhone since we' re talking about an expensive product that even requires monthly fees and is not even two months old. If people considering an iPhone see they already aren't keeping features at flagship level, I could see them losing a lot of future sales.

I thought I'd add, I think anyone expecting an iPod with all the features of the iPhone except the mobile phone/data are going to be very disappointed. No Wi-Fi is going in that thing. No additional features not available within a couple days on the iPhone via firmware update. Apple is not going to tell their iPhone customers, Hey, you know that outrageously expensive device you bought a month ago, the one with the two-year contract, well, you're going to have to get an iPod, too, to get all the iPod features you want. There's no market for buying both and Apple has zero incentive to try to talk you into buying an iPod *instead* of an iPhone. Believe me, they'd much rather have you buy the pricey iPhone with the continuous revenue stream for service contract residuals. For the no-phone iPhone, forget it. The new iPod will bring Mac OS X and touch-based interfaced to the iPod line, for people who do not want the phone or communications features and who want more storage -- although, frankly, with the way the overwhelming majority of people listen to music and watch video media and the robust content management system of iTunes, 8GB is plenty.* I'll be pretty surprised if this isn't the last iPod with a hard drive in it, too. Which means the 7G will actually have lower storage capacities than the 6G, but I expect they're hoping to be able to offer maybe around 20GB and maybe 30 or 40GB flash storage iPod before dropping the hard drive altogether.

*I kept my 30GB video iPod when I bought my iPhone because I thought that storage would be an issue for me. I never even carry the iPod anymore. It's pointless. I'm keeping it because my kids' names are engraved on it, but storage is not as big a deal as just providing an iPod that provides at least equal *iPod* features of the iPhone. It's going to be a cool iPod, but it's not going to best the iPhone in any way -- they just can't afford to do that. It would be like releasing a new MacBook Pro and then 40 days later introducing a new MacBook with twice the processor speed, and a four-times faster graphics card.

[stwain2003]

I'm not sure anything would. I'll probably buy one of the 5.5G models after the prices go down, just so I can have my music with me at all times. I already have multi-touch, so I don't need it on my iPod also...

[scaught]

I have a 5G 60GB ipod, a 2G shuffle and an iphone. They better sex something up FIERCE to make me notice. I'm over-podded as it is.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by stwain2003 

I'm not sure anything would. I'll probably buy one of the 5.5G models after the prices go down, just so I can have my music with me at all times. I already have multi-touch, so I don't need it on my iPod also...

Yeah, exactly. Storage. There are a handful of people that might just have to have their whole collection with them a lot, and after the 5.5Gs vanish, they might be stuck buying a multi-touch iPod just to get the storage. But there's no market. As I mentioned above, I don't even carry my video iPod anymore. If we go out of town or something, I'll probably take it, but otherwise, I just use my iPhone.

I think a lot of people are going to be upset here though. Not the mainstream iPod users who could care less about Wi-Fi and e-mail and Safari, but people here who really want what amounts to an iPod PDA without having to shell out for an iPhone or the mobile carrier contract.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by scaught 

I have a 5G 60GB ipod, a 2G shuffle and an iphone. They better sex something up FIERCE to make me notice. I'm over-podded as it is.

I just don't think they will. I mean they want you to buy an iPhone instead of an iPod, but they can't abandon the iPod line. But they also have to know there's very little market for people to buy both an iPhone and a new multi-touch iPod. Then, what, you just got this thing that consolidates really three devices into one really small one, and you're going to go back to carrying two devices around? And they have to add any new iPod features to the iPhone. Otherwise people set on an iPhone might choose an iPod instead and they don't want that, not change a confirmed future iPhone sale to an iPod sale.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by sanford 

I just don't think they will. I mean they want you to buy an iPhone instead of an iPod... But they also have to know there's very little market for people to buy both an iPhone and a new multi-touch iPod.

That strategy is only valid in one of Apple's markets, currently: the U.S.; and possibly a few European countries soon. What about the rest of the worldwide market? You think they'll purposefully stagnate the iPod in order to sell iPhones in the few countries they'll be able to set up provider deals? Imagine if they only sold iPods in countries where the iTMS was available...

Originally Posted by sanford 

And they have to add any new iPod features to the iPhone. Otherwise people set on an iPhone might choose an iPod instead and they don't want that, not change a confirmed future iPhone sale to an iPod sale.

I would imagine a hardware sale to Apple is a hardware sale to Apple. They make money either way. Sure, there's the potential loss of iPhone subscription revenue to some of the market. But really, if the phone functionality isn't enough to sway a user from buying an iPod with a similar interface to the iPhone, then they weren't a solid sale to begin with.

And one can safely assume that the surge in sales of a potential touch-screen iPod (as opposed to another flaccid update to the 5G iPod) would more than compensate for that perceived loss, especially abroad, where there is no competing iPhone option.

Not only that, but now that Apple has outdone themselves with the iPhone, makers of all sorts of handheld devices (phones as well as media players) are already trying to play catch-up. I'm quite sure Apple won't be sitting on its laurels while competitors eat their lunch in the PMP arena, just to push users to buy iPhones. Especially not in a market where certain music labels are hell-bent on breaking Apple's back by whatever means necessary.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Not only that, but now that Apple has outdone themselves with the iPhone, makers of all sorts of handheld devices (phones as well as media players) are already trying to play catch-up. I'm quite sure Apple won't be sitting on its laurels while competitors eat their lunch in the PMP arena, just to push users to buy iPhones. Especially not in a market where certain music labels are hell-bent on breaking Apple's back by whatever means necessary.

You'll still see feature parity with the iPhone; they're not going to add something extra to the iPod and not make it a feature on the iPhone's iPod. They're no more likely to spurn their 35-day-old iPhone customers -- with others planning to buy iPhones as soon as they can afford it or their current mobile carrier contract expires, people who don't want to see others buying the less expensive device and get enhanced features -- in favor of putting something extra in the iPod. If iPod gets it, iPhone will get it. I'm not saying iPhone will get *more* in the future, but they'll get "as good" -- barring storage that can be reached with an HDD, and perhaps video-out although I suspect the iPhone can do video-out at least through the dock connector -- as top-tier iPod features. (For example, I now that iPhone camera can record video, and they'll add that in a software update so it looks like you're getting this cool new feature for free.)

The only scenario in which iPod will get Wi-Fi is if they do some sort of purchase-via-iPod thing for the iTunes Store. And that's all you'll get. No e-mail, no browser, no maps, no widgets, nothing -- certainly no sync-via-Wi-Fi because that would just be awful. Because if you get those features, that's a PDA and Steve Jobs hates PDAs. In fact, he hates mobile phones, which was part of the push behind making iPhone: making a really good mobile phone. He'll make a smart-phone, but he will *not* make a PDA, because he sees, and he's stated this many, many times, as everything in portable devices moving to a *single* device that is also your phone.

Really, I don't see the purchase-from-iPod thing really making much sense. The concept being, hear a song on the radio, whip out your iPod and buy it. But it's really: hear a song on the radio, track down a free access point or one to which you are a subscriber, then buy it and oh what was the name of that song anyway? Makes more sense on iPhone where you have constant data connection.

Now if Wi-Fi were everywhere all the time, he might reconsider. But the idea behind iPhone is that *nothing ever changes for the user*; that's the whole thing about the required data plan. Believe me, iPhone owners are using the hell out of that unlimited data plan. It's certainly conceivable that considering cost-to-operate, ATT and Apple would make more money in mobile revenue *without* that $20 unlimited data plan. One, people are using it like crazy and that costs money to operate. And the other reason is that for a lot of us, with the iPhone on EDGE, when otherwise we would have made a mobile call or an expensive mobile directory call, 80% of the time there's no reason to call: look up the number to a store on the Web without directory assistance, but even further look up stock and pricing of what you're after at their Web site and never call them at all. Or want to let your spouse know when you'll be home? Zip off a no-surcharge e-mail rather than trying to track her down on the phone.

Barring what I think is an ill-fated purchase-via-Wi-Fi concept -- let's face it, if you're near an access point to which you actually have access you're probably near a computer you can sync with; and you'd have to block video purchase via Wi-Fi because of battery life issues -- no Wi-Fi in the new iPods. No way, no how.

Finally, you made your case because of the iPod market outside the States, which presently has no iPhone option. But Apple is planning to roll out the iPhone all over the first world, which is also the iPod market. Last thing you want to do 6 or 12 months before iPhone debuts in a market is give them an iPod that has almost everything they wanted in an iPhone, so much so they no longer will buy an iPhone.

p.s. For what it's worth, I hope you get Wi-Fi in the iPod if you want it. I have an iPhone; I already have an iPod with Wi-Fi. I wanted the whole package, phone, data and all, so I don't feel arm-twisted just to get an iPod with Wi-Fi. (I did, originally, until I really checked out the iPhone.) So why would I care, or want you not to get that feature? I just don't think they will do it.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by sanford 

You'll still see feature parity with the iPhone; they're not going to add something extra to the iPod and not make it a feature on the iPhone's iPod. They're no more likely to spurn their 35-day-old iPhone customers

I wouldn't imagine it being any other way. Apple has always been forthcoming about there being significant software updates to the iPhone, so I would expect nothing less than feature parity with the touch-screen iPod software. Except maybe with certain things such as video out, something clearly not a core part of the iPhone's intended functionality, and/or hardware actually physically capable of.

Originally Posted by sanford 

The only scenario in which iPod will get Wi-Fi is if they do some sort of purchase-via-iPod thing for the iTunes Store. And that's all you'll get. No e-mail, no browser, no maps, no widgets, nothing -- certainly no sync-via-Wi-Fi because that would just be awful.

No, certainly no syncing over WiFi. Apple clearly didn't go with this strategy for the iPhone, so it definitely wouldn't employ it with higher capacity drives on the iPhone.

No widgets? I dunno, you've got WiFi on there, it would be a simple feat of software and a major value-add to be able to look up simple information such as weather/stocks/sports info. I mean really, how much would that cut into iPhone sales? Widgets are nice-to-haves, not deal breakers.

No broswer or email? Yeah, I could see that going either way. Again, if you've got WiFi on there, the software is already developed, so it would be trivial for Apple to add, and clearly put it ahead of any other device in its category. But they might want to keep it differentiated enough from the iPhone of course. We'll find out soon enough...

Originally Posted by sanford 

Because if you get those features, that's a PDA and Steve Jobs hates PDAs. In fact, he hates mobile phones, which was part of the push behind making iPhone: making a really good mobile phone. He'll make a smart-phone, but he will *not* make a PDA, because he sees, and he's stated this many, many times, as everything in portable devices moving to a *single* device that is also your phone.

I hear you on the PDA thing. But really, with contacts, calendars, notes, and other PDA-like features already on the iPod, Apple would have to either take them away (unlikely) or neuter them to the point of not being able to edit them on a supposed touch-screen iPod.

Originally Posted by sanford 

Really, I don't see the purchase-from-iPod thing really making much sense. The concept being, hear a song on the radio, whip out your iPod and buy it. But it's really: hear a song on the radio, track down a free access point or one to which you are a subscriber, then buy it and oh what was the name of that song anyway? Makes more sense on iPhone where you have constant data connection.

Yeah, absolutely. So there's your differentiating factor between the iPhone and the iPod: the iPhone has nearly ubiquitous data access, whereas the iPod would only be in very limited areas.

Furthermore, if we are to believe the rumours regarding the iPod gaining digital radio tuning, it might be more feasible if listeners had the ability to tag songs they'd like to purchase as they listen to them, and the iPod would capture the current track information. If in the presence of a WiFi network, it could possibly take you the iTunes Store page for that track/album; if not within network range, it would queue songs in a "shopping cart" if you will, that will pull up, maybe even cache that info once you've crossed into an open hotspot. And then with another user prompt, allow the iPod to purchase the song at the next available opportunity.

But this all depends on digital radio tuning, something I'm not convinced Apple would go for after years of pushing the concept of using DAPs to circumvent the horrible programming on the airwaves today, and listening to what you want.

Originally Posted by sanford 

Barring what I think is an ill-fated purchase-via-Wi-Fi concept -- let's face it, if you're near an access point to which you actually have access you're probably near a computer you can sync with; and you'd have to block video purchase via Wi-Fi because of battery life issues -- no Wi-Fi in the new iPods. No way, no how.

You make several excellent points, but personally, I'm not ruling anything out just yet. If Apple knows how to do anything, it's surprising us.

Originally Posted by sanford 

Finally, you made your case because of the iPod market outside the States, which presently has no iPhone option. But Apple is planning to roll out the iPhone all over the first world, which is also the iPod market. Last thing you want to do 6 or 12 months before iPhone debuts in a market is give them an iPod that has almost everything they wanted in an iPhone, so much so they no longer will buy an iPhone.

This is nothing against the point you raise, but I severely doubt the iPhone will be available in all first-world countries within a year of its original launch. In the case of the iTMS, Japan and Australia got it well over a year after the original launch, and New Zealand's was only launched last November, almost a full 2.5 years after the original launch.

Originally Posted by sanford 

p.s. For what it's worth, I hope you get Wi-Fi in the iPod if you want it. I have an iPhone; I already have an iPod with Wi-Fi. I wanted the whole package, phone, data and all, so I don't feel arm-twisted just to get an iPod with Wi-Fi. (I did, originally, until I really checked out the iPhone.) So why would I care, or want you not to get that feature? I just don't think they will do it.

Fair enough, I'm sure we both see each others' viewpoints quite well, it's just our individual extrapolation of Apple's strategy which we differ on.

[theDreamer]

What would they have to put into a new iPod to get me to buy one along with my iPhone?
~A battery life that I can watch two days worth of movies. (No joke)
~Lots of storage. I know you said "duh" on this one, but just must repeat it.
~100% touch screen, no "home" style button. Not a huge deal, but something they would need.
~Best sounding iPod without any amps or anything of that nature. Be able to plug in my upper end headphones and be able to just go.

Features they should keep out:
~Wifi
~Any feature that needs internet access basically
~No camera

[sanford]

Excellent points. Yeah, no Wi-Fi sync! Somebody else agrees! Some people are so set this will able it will just *not* even with Wi-Fi in the iPod.

I say no on digital radio, for the same reasons you doubt it: the iPod *is* your radio according the Apple paradigm. The analog radio tuner in the remote was a tack-on that only came after years of competitor's having them, I suspect so Apple wouldn't lose the few customers who really care, who really listen to radio programs a lot -- sports, news, etc. -- not available via podcasts.

Which then again calls the whole "iTunes mobile" thing into question. I like your "caching" idea, but again it depends on digital radio to which I say no way. Also, it just makes sense on iPhone with constant connection. But I'll give you this: if they put Wi-Fi in the iPod for any reason, and they offer an iTunes mobile service on iPhone, they'll make it work in iPod, too, even if you can only buy at access points.

PDA functions. I'll go a long way in your direction on that. Contacts and calendar are already there, so taking them out is *removing* features, seldom a good idea. I say they'll update them to have the iPhone interface, but, as you say, neutered, no editing.

Widgets. Okay, presuming Wi-Fi, I'd go halfway in your direction on this. Weather, stocks, maybe maps, maybe even YouTube. But I say absolutely no on-screen keyboard or on-the-go data input for iPod, which troubles the idea of widgets. Weather, stock, some other things you could set location or company, you know what what I mean, from iTunes and it will set the widget when it syncs. But maps and YouTube, they'd be useless without a keyboard. But if Wi-Fi, I can still see a couple or three widgets that don't require mobile data input.

No Safari or Mail. No way, no how. I just think they'll leave that as a line distinction between iPhone communications device with full-service iPod onboard and just full-service iPod.

You didn't propose these ideas, but there have been some rumors about streaming your iTunes library or iTunes remote control via a Wi-Fi iPod. Even with Wi-Fi, no way. Streaming, obviously no, because the Apple concept is to carry your music or a subset thereof on the device. And an iTunes remote? These sound like jumbled on features they put it also-ran devices like the Archos models. They may seem like cool extra features but in reality they just junk up the device.

Here's what I wonder: We both agree iPhone will get via free software upgrade anything you'd want out of a new iPod -- save video out, which it's certainly powerful enough to do but they may have left out the connections for as they don't see it as an iPhone use; in fact I don't even know how many people really regularly use video out on iPods. But having seen images of what I believe to be the new Photos interface for nano, which I suspect is the new Photos interface for the touch iPod, I wonder if they'll update the iPhone Photos interface to mirror that. I almost doubt it as while the new iPod Photos interface is pretty, it's more for only viewing photos, whereas the iPhone photos interface is more conducive to selecting photos to upload to iPhoto '08 web galleries, or e-mail them, etc. So that I think iPhone might not get, but on the other hand I think they might want to reflect iPhoto's new Events feature, so this one is a toss up for me.

Bottom line, I think the most compelling "addition" -- I mean it's not new, it's always been HDD-based -- to the iPod line for iPhone owners will be more storage. I have a video iPod for bulk storage, and using iPhone as my go-anywhere-and-everywhere device I knew what I was getting into with 8GB of flash over larger HDD-based iPods. I find iTunes great for management, though. But If I'd broken my video iPod and decided to replace it with an iPhone instead, and had no large storage iPod, I could see myself getting interested in owning both for the extra storage. But I think that's going to be it as far as features you can get in iPod but not iPhone.

So, all in all, I don't think there will be much out of this iPod update to add to iPhone as it will mostly be adding iPhone features to iPod. I think the ringtone service thing will probably happen: basically Apple throwing iPhone owners a a bone since there's all this hoopla but nothing new for them and nothing that will require much if any update for their devices.

Oh, I think they might nix the chrome back and go for the brushed metal -- then again maybe not because they may want to leave enough difference so its obvious to others what you're carrying; a brand identity thing. But if they do it may mean the end of laser engraving, although I still think they engrave the nanos, so it might work.

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

I wouldn't imagine it being any other way. Apple has always been forthcoming about there being significant software updates to the iPhone, so I would expect nothing less than feature parity with the touch-screen iPod software. Except maybe with certain things such as video out, something clearly not a core part of the iPhone's intended functionality, and/or hardware actually physically capable of.



No, certainly no syncing over WiFi. Apple clearly didn't go with this strategy for the iPhone, so it definitely wouldn't employ it with higher capacity drives on the iPhone.

No widgets? I dunno, you've got WiFi on there, it would be a simple feat of software and a major value-add to be able to look up simple information such as weather/stocks/sports info. I mean really, how much would that cut into iPhone sales? Widgets are nice-to-haves, not deal breakers.

No broswer or email? Yeah, I could see that going either way. Again, if you've got WiFi on there, the software is already developed, so it would be trivial for Apple to add, and clearly put it ahead of any other device in its category. But they might want to keep it differentiated enough from the iPhone of course. We'll find out soon enough...



I hear you on the PDA thing. But really, with contacts, calendars, notes, and other PDA-like features already on the iPod, Apple would have to either take them away (unlikely) or neuter them to the point of not being able to edit them on a supposed touch-screen iPod.



Yeah, absolutely. So there's your differentiating factor between the iPhone and the iPod: the iPhone has nearly ubiquitous data access, whereas the iPod would only be in very limited areas.

Furthermore, if we are to believe the rumours regarding the iPod gaining digital radio tuning, it might be more feasible if listeners had the ability to tag songs they'd like to purchase as they listen to them, and the iPod would capture the current track information. If in the presence of a WiFi network, it could possibly take you the iTunes Store page for that track/album; if not within network range, it would queue songs in a "shopping cart" if you will, that will pull up, maybe even cache that info once you've crossed into an open hotspot. And then with another user prompt, allow the iPod to purchase the song at the next available opportunity.

But this all depends on digital radio tuning, something I'm not convinced Apple would go for after years of pushing the concept of using DAPs to circumvent the horrible programming on the airwaves today, and listening to what you want.



You make several excellent points, but personally, I'm not ruling anything out just yet. If Apple knows how to do anything, it's surprising us.



This is nothing against the point you raise, but I severely doubt the iPhone will be available in all first-world countries within a year of its original launch. In the case of the iTMS, Japan and Australia got it well over a year after the original launch, and New Zealand's was only launched last November, almost a full 2.5 years after the original launch.



Fair enough, I'm sure we both see each others' viewpoints quite well, it's just our individual extrapolation of Apple's strategy which we differ on.

[sanford]

Basically, nothing, right? Or nothing that will happen. Unless you just must have the storage and don't have a 5G to do a workhorse job for that. I actually think my iPhone iPod sounds better than my 5G. And it plays movies for approx. 7 hours, and it's flash, so I can't imagine they'll get more than that for an HDD-based device.

You don't like the home button? I'm rather glad they put iPhone hardware buttons in for lock, silent, home and volume in addition to the touch interface. Home I really like because you never get lost in the interface.

I think I'm so used to buying significant iPod revisions I want to find some reason to want one, but it would just be a waste of money for me. I have plenty of storage in my video iPod for the long vacation scenario when it matters to take *everything*; I have everything else in my iPhone. I carry my iPhone and if I just don't want any chance at all of disturbance I turn on airplane mode. I just wouldn't carry both, so I'd have an expensive nice iPod sitting on its charger, maybe using it twice a year.

Well, for me, unless they add iTunes mobile to the iPod, they can't get me this time. Except in those rare cases of being away from my Mac laptop for days, I've discovered that it's nice to be able to fit all of my media on one device, but I don't use it that way. I still listen to music like I did when I was 12 and had a Walkman I bought in Japan a couple months before you could even get them in the States: I buy a few new albums and listening to them over and over and over again; then it's onto the next new stuff. Of course I get in the mood to go back to things over the months or years, but it's not inconvenient to then copy these desired items to my iPhone. So if I kept absolute every bit of music I own and a few movies I own on my computer, which I don't keep everything in iTunes, I might need at least 60GB for the music alone, to leave some headroom for new stuff, 8GB is more than enough for what I actually will ever listen to in a portable situation. I think this is why the nano is so popular. Portable video doesn't appeal to a lot of people -- it didn't to me at all until I got the iPhone screen, which is fantastic, but still I'll watch an upscaled DVD or a Blu-ray disc on my HDTV a 100 times more than a movie or TV show on my iPhone -- nano battery life is great, flash is ultra-durable, it's tiny and light, and even though nano owners may have far more music than a nano can carry, they don't want or need to carry it all at once. Ringtones for the iPhone I expect, if not today, soon. But I went through my song-as-ringtone phase a while back; now I just generally use the "antique phone ring" on my iPhone, and use some of the other built-in tones as special ringers for my wife's numbers or other regular callers. Besides just getting bored with it, I'd not answer the phone when the music started because I'd think some song was playing somewhere, not that my phone was ringing.

Originally Posted by theDreamer 

What would they have to put into a new iPod to get me to buy one along with my iPhone?
~A battery life that I can watch two days worth of movies. (No joke)
~Lots of storage. I know you said "duh" on this one, but just must repeat it.
~100% touch screen, no "home" style button. Not a huge deal, but something they would need.
~Best sounding iPod without any amps or anything of that nature. Be able to plug in my upper end headphones and be able to just go.

Features they should keep out:
~Wifi
~Any feature that needs internet access basically
~No camera

[theDreamer]

I do not hate the home button, but I think taking out the home button and having a larger screen, or cutting down on space for the iPod would do it much better.
I love the home button on my phone, many times I will be going through things and just need to pop back to the main screen, simple press of a button.

My thing about battery life is, my phone should have less because I use it to call people mostly, without such features I should be able to get much better use. Also I always deem the iPod to need the most battery life so as to allow maximum away time from charger and such.

If they were to add wifi to the up coming iPod, my hope is that we get streaming music and video.
I always enjoy being on campus and looking up trailers on Apples website (they usually have a good selection of up coming), and just my few minutes between classes, if I get any, are for trailers. This is great time waster and still productive because I am a huge movie person and love watching this. If they were able to incorporate some video type system, kind of like youtube yet better quality, where we can watch TV shows we own (or can purchase for a days use) then just watch on my phone at my leisure.

[Visnaut]

A shorter reply this time, I promise.

Originally Posted by sanford 

PDA functions. I'll go a long way in your direction on that. Contacts and calendar are already there, so taking them out is *removing* features, seldom a good idea. I say they'll update them to have the iPhone interface, but, as you say, neutered, no editing.

Widgets. Okay, presuming Wi-Fi, I'd go halfway in your direction on this. Weather, stocks, maybe maps, maybe even YouTube. But I say absolutely no on-screen keyboard or on-the-go data input for iPod.

Again, that's something that could go either way. Your points are sound. But if there is no user input whatsoever on a touch-screen iPod, the touch screen becomes almost a novelty rather than a necessary update to it.

I think one good compelling reason for user input on the iPod is another feature that already exists on the iPods (even the nano now) which I don't think they'd take away: Search.

Right now it's done rather clumsily through the click wheel. But what would they do on a touch-screen iPod? Either take it away (again, unlikely, especially on higher capacity iPods), or allow full keyboard entry.

And if so, then that would open the door for user input for widgets, possibly even Calendars, Contacts, etc.

Originally Posted by sanford 

No Safari or Mail. No way, no how. I just think they'll leave that as a line distinction between iPhone communications device with full-service iPod onboard and just full-service iPod.

I see your point. It's perfectly valid, and hence, why I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed (well, maybe a little) if it didn't appear on the iPod.

But you know what would be an excellent business reason for Apple to put Safari on a WiFi iPod? Browser market share.

Apple has been more than clear that they wish to increase Safari's share of the browser market over the next few years; they already gave it a shot in the arm by releasing the Windows version and the one on the iPhone.

Now imagine it being available on one of the most widely used consumer devices in the world! The effect would be enormous, and would position Safari as a serious contender in the browser wars. That alone for me is a compelling reason for me to believe it will make it to the iPod, either in this revision or the next.

Originally Posted by sanford 

But having seen images of what I believe to be the new Photos interface for nano, which I suspect is the new Photos interface for the touch iPod, I wonder if they'll update the iPhone Photos interface to mirror that.

I don't see why not. If you're referring to the shots posted on ThinkSecret with the Events view and all, then I definitely think they'll come to the iPhone as a sort of coverflow view for the Albums listing.

And given the iLife update recently, it only makes sense that the iPhone's Photos app be updated with the functionality to view photos by Events. And if you've developed that software for the iPod (supposedly based on OSX, and similar hardware) then it would be trivial for them to add it to the iPhone, and make good on their promise to provide regular feature updates to the iPhone.

And seriously, if they couldn't bother to add that to the iPhone, then I would put into question any significant feature updates to the iPhone in the future.