[Big Mac]

Apple Developing Custom Built-In SIM Card for iPhone? - Mac Forums

This sounds like a very likely rumor. Apple probably a) wants to save space that the sim card currently occupies and b) further protect its chosen carriers by preventing unofficial carrier unlocking. Of course, there are claims that it may be a move toward greater carrier flexibility, but I don't think that's too likely.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Apple Developing Custom Built-In SIM Card for iPhone? - Mac Forums

This sounds like a very likely rumor. Apple probably a) wants to save space that the sim card currently occupies and b) further protect its chosen carriers by preventing unofficial carrier unlocking. Of course, there are claims that it may be a move toward greater carrier flexibility, but I don't think that's too likely.

If it's yet another form of carrier placation, that might be the nail in the coffin that drives me to another platform. I had hoped the iPhone would do to the cellular industry that the iPod did to the music industry, but that's been looking unlikely for the last few years.

[auto_immune]

The main reason I do not yet have an iphone is my refusal to deal with AT&T and its BS.

Is it true that in many european countries it is illegal for a carrier to lock a phone to its service?

[Big Mac]

Yes, in some countries it is illegal to lock a phone to a particular carrier. I think Germany and the UK are two; Canada and Australia also require that handsets be sold unlocked, to my knowledge.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by auto_immune 

The main reason I do not yet have an iphone is my refusal to deal with AT&T and its BS.

So then jailbreak and live with T-Mobile EDGE, I'm sure that'll really prove your point

[Big Mac]

I've actually been very happy with my other AT&T services and now with my iPhone, although I'm only a month in with it. It's not like Verizon would be much better.

In any case, more competition between carriers is better. If they're going to this software SIM scheme it sounds like it's going to reduce competition and lock us in more, unless Apple gets really creative with online carrier choice and configurations on the fly like some are speculating about.

[auto_immune]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

So then jailbreak and live with T-Mobile EDGE.

The thought did cross my mind. (16 gig 3G iphones are selling dirt cheap on ebay now)
I do not want or need a data plan...the wifi functionality is good enough for my purposes.
I would probably go for it, but money is tight right now and I have a 32 gig 2G ipod touch.

I'm sure that'll really prove your point

The last time I did something solely to prove a point, I was still a teenager.

[ghporter]

I can't see the point in embedding what is intended (in the specs for GSM) to be a removable, portable storage medium. That means that if a phone fails for whatever reason, personal data will be completely lost. It means that people who want to unlock a phone with an embedded SIM will just find ways to access that data via the phone-the same way the carriers would have to access it-with very unpredictable results. I don't see it as a positive for anyone, including Apple and AT&T.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Yes, in some countries it is illegal to lock a phone to a particular carrier. I think Germany and the UK are two; Canada and Australia also require that handsets be sold unlocked, to my knowledge.

I don’t think it’s illegal to lock the phone to a single carrier, but some countries require by law that an unlocked version must also be available. France and Belgium do this as well, if I recall correctly.

And I’m fairly sure pretty much the entire EU would consider a non-removable SIM card illegal—even in countries where locked phones are allowed, and unlocked versions not required by law, they’re only allowed to be locked up to a certain maximum period of time (I think, but am not sure, that the EU limit is 24 months; many countries further restricts this to 12 months). Making the SIM card non-removable would tie the phone to a single carrier eternally (unless the different carriers found ways of all using the same, Apple-provided SIM card, of course), which would not be allowed.

[Big Mac]

Thank you for the clarification, Oisin, on carrier lock-ins. I hope that if there is truth to this rumor it works in favor of consumer choice, but if not it will make my purchase of a 3GS look all the smarter. After all, Apple already went to a non-standard SIM interface with the iPhone 4 (yes, I know standard SIMs can be cut down, but I didn't want to deal with that), so the next design may have an even more radical departure from the accepted GSM standard.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by some eejit who didn’t bother reading the article

Making the SIM card non-removable would tie the phone to a single carrier eternally (unless the different carriers found ways of all using the same, Apple-provided SIM card, of course), which would not be allowed.

Uh, seems this is exactly what it’s about: a fixed SIM card that works with any carrier, rather than each carrier bringing along its own SIM card.

In that case, this would appear to be a good thing.

Originally Posted by ghporter

I can't see the point in embedding what is intended (in the specs for GSM) to be a removable, portable storage medium. That means that if a phone fails for whatever reason, personal data will be completely lost.

Shouldn’t all data present on the SIM card also be present on the computer the iPhone is synced to? I guess if you don’t sync your iPhone at all, it won’t be; but who has an iPhone and doesn’t sync it?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Uh, seems this is exactly what it’s about: a fixed SIM card that works with any carrier, rather than each carrier bringing along its own SIM card.

Or, rather, that's the *wishful thinking* that this is about.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Or, rather, that's the *wishful thinking* that this is about.

True.

Also, “Peel” on the MacRumors thread brings up a good point: what do you do if you go travelling and would usually just switch out your SIM card for a temporary PAYG card, and then switch back to your regular contract when you’re back home?

If this were to be some kind of ‘open standard’-ish thing, they’d have to address that, too, somehow.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Uh, seems this is exactly what it’s about: a fixed SIM card that works with any carrier, rather than each carrier bringing along its own SIM card.

But how could that possibly be facilitated on a consistent international basis?

Could one read the IMEI off of a regular SIM card and input it into this theoretical software SIM, just the same as inserting the card into a physical slot? Because if that's the aim then it makes sense. Apple can remove the hardware SIM card entirely and still maintain the underlying functionality associated with them.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I had hoped the iPhone would do to the cellular industry that the iPod did to the music industry, but that's been looking unlikely for the last few years.

It did: shift profits from other companies to Apple.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Shouldn’t all data present on the SIM card also be present on the computer the iPhone is synced to? I guess if you don’t sync your iPhone at all, it won’t be; but who has an iPhone and doesn’t sync it?

How often do users sync their iPhones? I do it maybe once a week at most. That's 7 days worth of data to be lost. Use the iPhone for business? Uh oh! Maybe the last three entries in your address book of great new clients is not as safe as it might be with a standard SIM.

[subego]

Yeah. Syncing is sort of a pain in the ass. It's slow, and if you have any pictures in your Photo app, it launches iPhoto. Which is a pain too. Why can't iPhoto stay open with the window closed? Also, unless you're going to charge it up to full, you burn a charge cycle.

You get programmed to avoid it.

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by subego 

Yeah. Syncing is sort of a pain in the ass. It's slow, and if you have any pictures in your Photo app, it launches iPhoto. Which is a pain too. Why can't iPhoto stay open with the window closed? Also, unless you're going to charge it up to full, you burn a charge cycle.

Syncing is definitely slow, but you can control the behavior of iPhoto so it doesn't open.

And you do not burn a charge cycle just syncing your phone. For example, if your phone is down to 80% battery and you charge it back to 100%, you are using 20% of the charge cycle. (not a full one) So for example you would have to do this method 5 times (charging it 20% at a time) to reach 1 full charge cycle.

And Glenn's concern is why I use MobileMe and gmail. When I add a new contact/calendar item etc., it's automatically synced to the cloud. I've never stored anything on a SIM that wasn't put there by the carrier.

[subego]

Yup. My bad.

With the iPhoto thing, about half the time I want it to open, so killing the function isn't all that great either.

Still, it would be nice if iPhoto could just stay open without a window.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

And Glenn's concern is why I use MobileMe and gmail. When I add a new contact/calendar item etc., it's automatically synced to the cloud. I've never stored anything on a SIM that wasn't put there by the carrier.

Is MobileMe any faster than syncing to your Mac? Probably not.

In the pre-smart phone days, it was simply "the" procedure when upgrading from an old phone to a new one to put all your contacts on your SIM, then pop it into the new phone. In fact, my iPhone is running on the SIM that was in my old RAZR-the AT&T store lady just popped it out of one phone and into the other, and with a few keystrokes she'd activated my new iPhone and I walked out the door. If subscriber information is no longer portable, how long will a phone upgrade take?

The whole idea sounds very counter-intuitive, and very much "let's add a lot of complexity to something that's simple." If the "SIM" is embedded, someone's just going to find a way to alter the subscriber data on it through the phone. The "mini-SIM" in an iPhone 3Gs takes up a very tiny amount of space, and the micro card in the 4 takes up even less. I just can't see a real, practical application of embedding the logic/memory in the phone that passes Occam's Razor.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Is MobileMe any faster than syncing to your Mac? Probably not.

I may be misunderstanding you here, but MobileMe uses a pseudo-push type thing, so it's more or less syncing as you add stuff.

[Spheric Harlot]

FWIW, making a phone carrier-exclusive is NOT illegal in Germany. The iPhone was T-Mobile-exclusive here until last Tuesday, though T-Mobile would unlock it after your contract expired.

France, Belgium, Luxemburg, and Italy, I believe, have laws requiring an unlocked version to be sold alongside any carrier-locked versions. (France initially had carrier exclusivity, but a lawsuit broke the iPhone monopoly.)

As of October 27th, Apple sells unlocked iPhones via their German website, and it's offered on Vodafone (SIM-locked) and O2 (no SIM-lock) as well.

[Oisín]

FWIW, making a phone carrier-exclusive is NOT illegal in Germany. The iPhone was T-Mobile-exclusive here until last Tuesday, though T-Mobile would unlock it after your contract expired.

But making it indefinitely locked is, isn’t it?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by subego 

I may be misunderstanding you here, but MobileMe uses a pseudo-push type thing, so it's more or less syncing as you add stuff.

No, I was not aware about the "sync as you go" aspect. It sounds like MM is faster, at least functionally. (Obviously I don't have MobileMe...)

[chabig]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

That means that if a phone fails for whatever reason, personal data will be completely lost.

iPhone doesn't store any data on the SIM card.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

But making it indefinitely locked is, isn’t it?

AFAIK, German law requires that telcos unlock your phone free of charge upon request once your contract has expired.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

AFAIK, German law requires that telcos unlock your phone free of charge upon request once your contract has expired.

That’s what I thought. The 24 months would be the maximum period of time the telco would be allowed to bind you to such a contract before they have to give you the option of letting the contract expire and/or unlocking the phone.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

Yeah. Syncing is sort of a pain in the ass. It's slow, and if you have any pictures in your Photo app, it launches iPhoto. Which is a pain too. Why can't iPhoto stay open with the window closed? Also, unless you're going to charge it up to full, you burn a charge cycle.

That's not how charge cycles work.

Apple - Batteries

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That's not how charge cycles work.

Apple - Batteries

Hence the "yup, my bad" after -Q- pointed it out.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by chabig 

iPhone doesn't store any data on the SIM card.

My point was intended to be more general, but point noted. However the iPhone DOES have ALL the subscriber information on the SIM-it's part of the GSM standard.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

True.

Also, “Peel” on the MacRumors thread brings up a good point: what do you do if you go travelling and would usually just switch out your SIM card for a temporary PAYG card, and then switch back to your regular contract when you’re back home?.

This is pretty interesting. Some phone manufacturers are building models with 2/3/4-SIM support.

Apple could be adding a flashable SIM while keeping physical SIM support. Then they allow providers to sell roaming, prepaid, or international service all in the App Store. If your iPhone is on contract with at&t, the Store would know not to sell you tmobile service. But if you're going to Germany and decide to purchase service, it allows it. Turn off at&t, get off the plane, and you're live on local Germany service.

Lots of neat options with this.

[Oisín]

Apple could be adding a flashable SIM while keeping physical SIM support.

But what would then be the space-saving point of removing the SIM slot?

I guess they’d have to make deals with telcos in pretty much every country in the world, and then allow you to buy ‘PAYG time’ in the App Store, so that you still have your own (built-in) SIM card when you go abroad, but you’ve bought some ‘rented time’ with a local carrier.

My carrier, 3, have a similar thing going between Denmark and Sweden. 3 exist in both countries, though they’re separate companies, but they have an agreement so that whenever I go to Sweden (as long as I’m on the 3 network), I can call, text, and use data at the same rates as I have at home, even though I’m technically on another (foreign) carrier’s network. A similar thing could be done here, except you’d be bying a specific amount of speech time/texts/data for a specific carrier in the country you’re going to.

Would be doable, definitely, but it does require that people plan ahead of time and think of buying their time before leaving home.