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mindwaves · Oct 12, 2011, 06:28 AM

I want to buy an unlocked iPhone since I currently work overseas.

I had some questions based on this MacNN article and this passage found on Apple's site but cannot be linked:

Code:
The unlocked iPhone includes all the features of iPhone but without a contract commitment. You can activate and use it on the supported GSM wireless network of your choice, such as AT&T in the United States.* The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint.

That is, according to the above passage, the unlocked iPhone, as sold by Apple, cannot work with Sprint/Verizon. However, according to the MacNN article, the iPhone 4S, as sold by Sprint, can work with CDMA (Sprint/Verizon) and overseas (GSM). Are these articles contradictory? Are there two different unlocked iPhone 4Ss?

I may eventually go back to US next year so I may want to choose Sprint as my carrier, but in the meantime, I want to use an unlock iPhone 4S overseas (GSM network).

Furthermore, this passage on MacNN is confusing:

Code:
The unlocking has no effect within the U.S.; Sprint customers would be unable to switch to T-Mobile by replacing the SIM, for example, as the GSM roaming only works with non-U.S. GSM frequencies.

because I thought that the iPhone 4 can be unlocked (or sold unlocked) to work with AT&T and/or T-Mobile (although T-Mobile will be GSM only).

I'm confused.

amazing · Oct 12, 2011, 07:50 AM

Jailbreaking the iPhone can perhaps void the warranty and also tech support. It's a cat and mouse game, where Apple seeks to prevent jailbreaking and Apple has now hired one of the premier jailbreakers...

The unlocked 4S from Verizon incurs a $30/month Int'l roaming fee along with forcing you to use the overseas partner (at undoubtedly premium rates--definitely not the same as buying a pay-as-you-go microSIM.) VZW's overseas partner is Vodafone.

As details from the new 4S emerge, there'll be more details about overseas rates--don't expect them to be cheap or reasonable.

Big Mac · Oct 12, 2011, 11:09 AM

Apple's statement on the unlocked iPhone 4S indicates that the CDMA circuitry is disabled and only GSM on at home and abroad work. Whereas, Sprint and Verizon have CDMA at home and GSM based world phone mode abroad, which won't work with domestic GSM providers. Complicating understanding is back and forth contradictory information on whether the world phone SIM slot is truly unlocked/unlockable on Verizon and Sprint. Take a look at this story with a confusing update attached:

Sprint and Verizon confirm iPhone 4S Micro SIM unlock for international travel (update: Sprint remains locked) -- Engadget So if you read the Update, Sprint is apparently now saying that the SIM slot is locked with their international roaming SIM and that won't be unlocked at all. Oy vey. I think we're all going to have to wait to see user reports from early adopters to find out the truth about the extent to which Verizon and Sprint 4Ss are locked or unlocked.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 12, 2011, 11:30 AM

I read that Verizon were locking their micro-sim for 60 days too and then agreeing to unlock for customers 'in good standing'.

Whats the point of making the phone CDMA and GSM if the unlocked versions are still stuck with GSM only? Seems stupid. For the money of a PAYG iPhone they ought be able to run on any carrier you like.

Big Mac · Oct 12, 2011, 12:26 PM

Agreed, War. It's lame. Hopefully Apple will improve upon that because I can't really see why the full price unlocked 4S shouldn't have CDMA enabled. However, it may be the weird, proprietary nature of CDMA (wherein CDMA handsets are never unlocked to other CDMA carriers at least in the US) versus GSM, but I can only speculate.

As for Verizon, yeah I've read widely that Verizon will supposedly unlock after 60 days, but at this point I won't believe it until I hear about it from end users. The same reports were claiming that Sprint would be unlocked from day one, but now Sprint is apparently denying that completely. There's probably a lot of inaccurate noise because of clueless customer service reps who have no clue but speculate anyway.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 12, 2011, 02:07 PM

That said, there aren't actually all that many carriers that use CDMA.

mindwaves · Oct 12, 2011, 04:12 PM

That is true, but unlocked should mean unlocked. A bit disappointed if I were to buy the unlocked iPhone from Apple and use it overseas and then try to use it with Sprint when I go back to the US.

chabig · Oct 12, 2011, 08:07 PM

CDMA phones don't use SIM cards. Your unlocked iPhone can roam freely on GSM because you just swap the SIM and you're good to go. For CDMA, the phone has to be activated by your carrier and you can't just switch to another CDMA carrier once that's done.

If you're with Sprint or Verizon, you're stuck with them in the US once activated, but overseas you should be able to put in a local SIM and use the phone on the local networks. When you come back to the US, your Sprint or Verizon service will still work.

Big Mac · Oct 13, 2011, 06:14 AM

CDMA phones don't use SIM cards except when they're world phones and have SIM slots. We're trying to determine if Verizon and Sprint are locking their SIMs down so that you have to continue to use their service to roam outside the country instead of being able to use a local provider's SIM, and we're getting very mixed signals from Sprint. We won't know the truth until 4S Sprint and Verizon owners try to use their SIM slots internationally.

chabig · Oct 13, 2011, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

We're trying to determine if Verizon and Sprint are locking their SIMs down so that you have to continue to use their service to roam outside the country...

I don't really understand what you're questioning. If they're selling them as unlocked, then they can't be locking them.

Big Mac · Oct 13, 2011, 11:54 PM

Yeah, you're not understanding the issue at hand. We're currently unclear on what the official policies of Verizon and Sprint are on whether the "world phone" SIM card functionality of the 4S will be locked or unlocked, and if locked what if any unlocking policy there will be. Verizon seems to be pretty consistent that there will be unlocking after 60 days of paid service like any other Verizon world phone, meaning that after that time you'll be able to go overseas and use a third party SIM card and a local cell plan.

Sprint has gone back and forth. At first the claim was that its 4S world phone SIM functionality would be unlocked from day one. Then their corporate spokesman seems to have confused CDMA, which is locked, with the GSM world phone aspect, which they previously said would be unlocked. And my point is that we're not going to know for sure until end users start telling the online community what their experiences are with Sprint and Verizon phones when they try to use local SIMs overseas.

Another article on the subject from Macworld: How international is the iPhone 4S?

Waragainstsleep · Oct 14, 2011, 03:30 AM

Macrumors says Verizon and Sprint are doing the same thing. The GSM is locked but if they like you they will unlock at your request.

Big Mac · Oct 14, 2011, 04:42 AM

But Sprint is still dodgy on it. They're now claiming the initial 4S will shipped unlocked and then get locked only to get unlocked again by request. I'm really not surprised that Sprint has had financial trouble given how well their management runs things!

The Godfather · Nov 11, 2011, 09:17 AM

11/11/11 you can finally buy a wholly owned iPhone 4S, just in time for the end of the world.

Wiskedjak · Nov 11, 2011, 09:30 AM

How would unlocked CDMA work, anyways?

With GSM, you can walk into any convenience store, pick up a SIM and stick in in your phone. Then you just swap SIMs as you move between networks. I have 5 SIMs in my wallet, depending on which network I want to jump to.

With CDMA, you have to call up the carrier, register your IMEI with them, set up an account and pair your phone to their network. You'll then need to remove your phone from their network and repeat the process each time you want to switch networks.

Cold Warrior · Nov 11, 2011, 09:59 AM

The unlocked 4S is only for GSM. They warn you it is not for CDMA providers and will not activate on their networks.

CDMA doesn't use IMEI, it uses MEID (or the older ESN). iPhone being newer has MEID on CDMA.

Spheric Harlot · Nov 12, 2011, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

CDMA phones don't use SIM cards except when they're world phones and have SIM slots. We're trying to determine if Verizon and Sprint are locking their SIMs down so that you have to continue to use their service to roam outside the country instead of being able to use a local provider's SIM, and we're getting very mixed signals from Sprint. We won't know the truth until 4S Sprint and Verizon owners try to use their SIM slots internationally.

No, that's a different thread.

THIS thread is about what the unlocked iPhone means for the CDMA portion of the phone.