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Mac Hammer Fan · May 1, 2006, 03:03 PM

Today I installed Yellow Dog Linux 4.1 on my G5.
Again, as with Ubuntu and Kubuntu nothing but trouble.
I can't eject a CD. Apple Airport isn't recognized. My monitor and graphics card is not fully supported...
etc.. etc..
According to this site: http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/
YDL should be a faster, more stable, and far more efficient as a desktop OS.
"Yellow Dog Linux is a solid replacement (not just an alternative) to OSX. " they say.
I am convinced that MacOSX is much much better than all those Linux distro's.
Much more reliable and user friendly.

Chuckit · May 1, 2006, 03:18 PM

Strange. Aside from Airport, my computer was pretty well supported under Ubuntu. Even the volume and eject buttons worked on my Apple keyboard.

Oh well. Linux Is Broken.

cgc · May 1, 2006, 03:54 PM

I installed Ubuntu (Breezy Badger) and never a problem. Seemed very Mac-like in the way it worked...

Tomchu · May 1, 2006, 04:19 PM

Desktop Linux is absolute shite compared to OS X.

icruise · May 1, 2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Desktop Linux is absolute shite compared to OS X.

I'll have to agree with you there, especially when it comes to ease of use.

Apfhex · May 1, 2006, 06:33 PM

For desktop use, no Linux distro is a solid replacement for OS X or Windows I'm sorry to say... IMHO of course, but c'mon now.

Chuckit · May 1, 2006, 08:17 PM

I don't know about that. I think Linux's lack of a consistent look and feel may actually be a solid replacement Windows' lack of a consistent look and feel.

Mac Hammer Fan · May 1, 2006, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Strange. Aside from Airport, my computer was pretty well supported under Ubuntu. Even the volume and eject buttons worked on my Apple keyboard.

Oh well. Linux Is Broken.

Although with Ubuntu the keyboard buttons were supported, I couldn't play an audio CD, there was no video-acceleration, no airport, no ethernet printer Apple Laserwriter, and always I got after a few days even more troubles (on an IMac G 350, which is no running OSX again)

Caetano · May 2, 2006, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I don't know about that. I think Linux's lack of a consistent look and feel may actually be a solid replacement Windows' lack of a consistent look and feel.

As opposed to the Mac OS X-we-have-7-different-themes-going-on consistent look and feel?

Tomchu · May 2, 2006, 01:09 AM

The feel remains the same, while the look changes a bit. Any way you look at it, OS X is still 10x easier and more pleasant to use than KDE/GNOME.

Dr.Michael · 09:48 AM

I had no technical problems with ydl 3 on my powerbook. Keyboard and eject worked fine.

But after 4+ years with linux I agree that linux is no replacement for OS X on the desktop when it comes to userfriendliness. It does not even come close - in no way.
The only to some extent consistent look and feel comes with WindowMaker as a wm. KDE sucks, I agree. But also window maker has its limits because there are a couple of gui libraries hanging around. All look retro and all look different. So linux has a basic problem with a consistent look and feel.

I found out that YDL performs much better in many cases compared to OS X. The Mach kernel architecture and aqua are cpu cycle eaters. So for horsepower I would choose linux.

YDL 3 did not support a proper power management (like suse, that does not sufficiently support power management on my thinkpad). This lead to constantly running fans which rules ydl out for me as an everyday os. On the thinkpad I can live with it because even after 3 years with constantly running fans the fans are hardly audible. Powerbooks sound like a truck compared to that.

Another problem with ppc linux is the lack of software. It took me a while to install the ibm java sdk, which needed a linux like configuration file adjustment in order to be configured for the right cpu (non ppc, g3, g4 etc.). Who mentioned userfriendliness? This is three floors too low before you can even start talking about user friendliness

).

Only for tinkerers!

Tuoder · May 3, 2006, 05:40 AM

Linux has a nasty problem with a lack of drivers.

ghporter · May 3, 2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Tuoder

Linux has a nasty problem with a lack of drivers.

Correction: Linux users have this problem. The OS really doesn't care. The userbase-WE care!

It's all about who writes those drivers. Without some interest from the uncompensated programmers who do the actual work of creating Linux and its extensions, drivers just don't get written.

production_coordinator · May 3, 2006, 09:05 AM

YDL is going to fade away considerably once x86 Macs become the norm.

zenithproduct · May 4, 2006, 02:01 AM

I'm running ubuntu on my iMac 350.. Just got this iMac, didn't come with an OS, so this is all I have for the time being. It works well for me. I gave up on YDL when I couldn't find it for download anywhere. At least ubuntu made that part simple.

ghporter · May 4, 2006, 07:44 AM

My biggest complaint with every Linux distribution I've looked at has been that they come unconfigured. It's not a problem to tweak them for my hardware, but they usually come with three or four different desktop managers, a slew of browsers, tons of utilities that really don't help me, and so on. I would like to see a distribution that started kind of sparse, with only one desktop manager (KDE works fine for me...), Konqueror for a browser, and maybe only the tools needed to make the OS work properly with my computer. After that, I wouldn't mind downloading or otherwise adding the other stuff-one thing at a time.

So I don't think most Linux distributions are indeed good replacements for existing mainstream OSs. Except for Linspire, which is pretty much configured the way I just mentioned, and is marketed as a Windows replacement. It seems to work fine for that, by the way.

Mac Hammer Fan · May 4, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by UnaClocker

I'm running ubuntu on my iMac 350.. Just got this iMac, didn't come with an OS, so this is all I have for the time being. It works well for me. I gave up on YDL when I couldn't find it for download anywhere. At least ubuntu made that part simple.

I have tried Ubuntu/Kubuntu on an Imac G350
No video-acceleration! No airport. Bad sound of CD on Ubuntu and no sound at all with Kubuntu. No ethernet printer, perhaps possible with confuring in UNIX with the terminal, but that's too difficult for me.
I admit, the KDE desktop is nice, but once you have to configure something, the problems begin. To set the video to 1000 colors .e.g. , you have to use the terminal instead of a user-friendly control panel... It's even worse than Windows.
After updating, everytime more troubles occured and I had to re-install the system.
After 7 re-installs, I gave up...
I installed MacOSX and now everything is working perfect...

Chuckit · May 4, 2006, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

My biggest complaint with every Linux distribution I've looked at has been that they come unconfigured. It's not a problem to tweak them for my hardware, but they usually come with three or four different desktop managers, a slew of browsers, tons of utilities that really don't help me, and so on. I would like to see a distribution that started kind of sparse, with only one desktop manager (KDE works fine for me...), Konqueror for a browser, and maybe only the tools needed to make the OS work properly with my computer. After that, I wouldn't mind downloading or otherwise adding the other stuff-one thing at a time.

What about the latest thing, Ubuntu (or its KDE brother Kubuntu)? It doesn't even come with GCC installed by default.

zenithproduct · May 4, 2006, 09:38 PM

I'm actually only running ubuntu off a "live cd", so no re-installing. and being a live CD, the apps are very sparse. Works great, and if I screw something up, I just yank the power cord and reboot. It's really just temporary till I can track down a copy of OS 9 long enough to update my firmware.. As for graphics accellearation.. The iMac 350 has what, a Rage 128? It's not a 3d chipset. ATi didn't know what 3d meant till the Radeon series came out. Too bad the slot load iMac's never got that.. heh.. Oh, and sound works great, tho I haven't tried playing a CD, as the OS is kind of using the CD drive full time.

And it didn't come with an MP3 codec, so I can't play MP3's..

zmcgill · May 5, 2006, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

My biggest complaint with every Linux distribution I've looked at has been that they come unconfigured. It's not a problem to tweak them for my hardware, but they usually come with three or four different desktop managers, a slew of browsers, tons of utilities that really don't help me, and so on. I would like to see a distribution that started kind of sparse, with only one desktop manager (KDE works fine for me...), Konqueror for a browser, and maybe only the tools needed to make the OS work properly with my computer. After that, I wouldn't mind downloading or otherwise adding the other stuff-one thing at a time.

So I don't think most Linux distributions are indeed good replacements for existing mainstream OSs. Except for Linspire, which is pretty much configured the way I just mentioned, and is marketed as a Windows replacement. It seems to work fine for that, by the way.

When I installed YDL 3.0.1 on my 6500 I chose a custom install, and I got to choose everything that was put on: apps, utilities, games, server apps, and even desktop environments. Sounds like what you're looking for.

Lateralus · May 5, 2006, 01:11 AM

I've been wanting to install YDL alongside OS X on my G5. What would be the easiest way to go about this without fudging anything up?

alphasubzero949 · May 5, 2006, 03:35 AM

I'm dual booting Tiger and Ubuntu Dapper and haven't had a single problem with the distro not recognizing my hardware with the exception of Airport...which is NOT Ubuntu's fault...or any PPC distro for that matter. Broadcom designs the chipset for the Airport Extreme cards and have refused to release the specs to the open source community. Those of you whining about Airport, please go have a look at fwcutter. I'm able to access the network with WEP encryption.

Those of you still running Breezy...seriously, upgrade to Dapper. It's more than ready for final release on the PowerPC side. Breezy was terrible performance-wise. If the folks at GNOME were able to soup up 2.14 as much as they did over 2.12, I can't begin to imagine what they'll have ready when 2.16 rolls around in September.

KDE? Don't bother. But that's my own opinion. Mac users will be more comfortable with GNOME.

Tomchu, I have to agree...both suck. Maybe we need a NeXTSTEP-like environment on top of Debian. NeXbuntu?

Dr.Michael · May 5, 2006, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Tomchu, I have to agree...both suck. Maybe we need a NeXTSTEP-like environment on top of Debian. NeXbuntu?

It exists already: OpenStep (or if you think more basic: WindowMaker).

But - to be honest, I never succeeded compiling OpenStep for my thinkpad. Too many missing libraries, so I always gave up after hours of tinkering.

Mac Hammer Fan · May 5, 2006, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

I'm dual booting Tiger and Ubuntu Dapper and haven't had a single problem with the distro not recognizing my hardware .....

Video is not accelerated in Ubuntu if you have an ATI Radeon card. Perhaps you have an Nvidia?

Chuckit · May 5, 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

I'm dual booting Tiger and Ubuntu Dapper and haven't had a single problem with the distro not recognizing my hardware with the exception of Airport...which is NOT Ubuntu's fault...or any PPC distro for that matter. Broadcom designs the chipset for the Airport Extreme cards and have refused to release the specs to the open source community. Those of you whining about Airport, please go have a look at fwcutter.

And then marvel as your Airport Extreme still doesn't work even after you install the firmware with fwcutter.

I don't care whose fault it is. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Blaming somebody isn't going to get me on the Internet.

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Those of you still running Breezy...seriously, upgrade to Dapper. It's more than ready for final release on the PowerPC side.

Really? Have they made Espresso actually work yet?

Tomchu · May 5, 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I don't care whose fault it is. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Blaming somebody isn't going to get me on the Internet.

Quoted for emphasis.

Too bad that many in the Linux camp take up the attitude that if something not working is someone else's fault, people will conveniently ignore it.

"Linux is so much better than Windows!"
"Yeah but now my wireless and 3D acceleration don't work."
"Yeah, but that's the fault of the manufacturers."

That does me a whole hell lot of good.

alphasubzero949 · May 5, 2006, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And then marvel as your Airport Extreme still doesn't work even after you install the firmware with fwcutter.

I don't care whose fault it is. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Blaming somebody isn't going to get me on the Internet.

Really? Have they made Espresso actually work yet?

Uhm, mine does work. Then again, YMMV.

Yes, Espresso works, but I still used the text-based installer anyway because I do not like how Espresso sends me into gparted to divide my / into two. I find it easier in the other method.

kick52 · May 6, 2006, 07:19 AM

linux if very hard to install. i tried installing ubuntu on my powermac g4. i told it to install on the 20gb, but it wipes both and installs on the 80gb. very confusing.

Lateralus · May 6, 2006, 11:25 AM

That's because Unbutu's installer sucks.

larrinski · May 6, 2006, 11:34 AM

I have installed 4 varieties of linux on my ibook G4, Debian, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Fedora Core 5. I know that the first 3 are relatives, but each one went very smooth. I trick is to manually partition the drives. There are good install instructions out there to assist with this. All of these distros worked, but I just gave up on the airport hack. I am now trying to connect via a network cable. I would like to play in linux only to see what it is like. OS X is far superior for an overall system on Mac hardware. It is written for the hardware...If I had a Windows box, then maybe I would think differently...

Dr.Michael · May 6, 2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by larrinski

I trick is to manually partition the drives.

Yes, absolutely! This is important.
Usually, before I installed linux, I used CCC to clone my drive, then create the new partition scheme with disk utility. The prepared (3 I guess) partitions for linux can then manually be formated and arranged.
This is a tricky step. And it is always risky. Don't do it without a brand new OS X backup.

larrinski · May 6, 2006, 07:44 PM

I learned that lesson the hard way. I messed up the partition and thought I could go back into disk utility and change it around... I erased my OS X install. Won't make that mistake again. Good thing for Backup 3!

Mac Hammer Fan · May 7, 2006, 01:57 AM

I heard that lesson the hard way too.
I had 2 partititions on my disk: Mac HD1 & Mac HD2.
After resizing one partition (Mac HD1) and adding a new one I thought my Mac HD2 partitition, the rest of that disk was safe. After installing Linux, I booted back in OSX and tried to format bzw free space to Mac HD1 but it erased my Mac HD2 Partition.
And we don't have a utitility today which restores an erased partition completely...
Data Rescue II e.g. only recovers some files, and not their names...

ryaxnb · May 8, 2006, 10:15 AM

You should try Mandriva Linux on a PC. It's not as simple to use as OSX or in some ways Windows, I'll give you that. But it's about as powerful, much cheaper, and fairly user friendly. There are two main look&feels - GNOME (which I like best - I think if all of Linux was like GNOME, it'd be easier than Windows) and KDE. Once you setup the servers (simple, just a few steps) it's simple as pie to install software, even multimedia codecs.
Another great distro is Xandros or Linspire. For the beginner, these ditros allow you to browse the web, write Office docs, edit pictures, and manage music with all the ease of Windows (heh heh.) And, the security is better (especially with Xandros,) and you know that an evil monopoly isn't behind your OS.
Linux is also great for the weaker systems (on X86 anyway, Macs I haven't a clue.) For macs and PCs that are slightly low-end, try Xubuntu. It breathes life back into old OS X or Windows XP more-or-less-incapable Macs, like G3s and Pentium IIIs. And for the oldest PC (down to a fast Pentium with 32MB RAM and a 500MB HD - a fast Pentium II with 64MB is recommended,) use Damn Small Linux, (in case the board filters it, that's Dam*n) it screams on just a fast Pentium III, takes up 50MB (!) of space, allows more software to be added (including classics like AbiWord, Gnumeric, MPlayer, and Mozilla) and includes a basic word processor (MS Word compatible,) a spreadsheet, a mail client, Firefox, a web browser for lower-end systems, and a MP3 player.

alphasubzero949 · May 26, 2006, 07:37 AM

The only safe way to dual boot OS X and Ubuntu is to use Disk Utility. The trick is to make the Ubuntu partition free space. Then when you get around to installing Ubuntu, have the partitioner automatically work with the free space. Of course, with the alternate installer (which I recommend over the Live CD), you can further slice and dice the / partition to your liking. IMO, /, /home, boot, and swap should be sufficient.

striderdm1 · Jul 16, 2006, 04:28 PM

I was quite impressed with ubuntu live cd, really quite fast and responsive for a cd os. But the installer does suck big time and i didn't want to loose any of my mac os stuff on the other disks/partitions! In fact i messed about far too much, i'm shocked that i didn't wipe away all my apple s/w! phew

In the end i've gone with Yellow Dog and it worked first time, nice and easy imho. Ejecting the cd/dvd drive is a pita compared to just hitting the key under osx! But... can't really complain too much ; ) Airport?? Can't say i'm all wires here! lol

The only problem i have is the lack of nvidia drivers. I have a 256mb 6800 Ultra and I cannot see the same speedy responsive desktop i have under osx. Esp test this while moving a window about over another! yuk! No opengl too..

But apart from that, i love it. YDL is sweet. Sure the gfx aren't accelerated, but for everything else graphical it is just as fast (as osx) imho. All in all, this ydl is superb stuff and now i've got a linux box to mess about with. Cool!

But what i do hate is how i need to boot into one or the other, should have seen that one coming! lol Now i feel like i want to look out for a mega cheap intel pc, wipe off winblows and install a x86 linux! Heck, maybe even a Mac Mini?

Anyhow, i like YDL. Am i the only one here that does???

thanks, Strider