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Eug Wanker · May 22, 2006, 04:42 PM

Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor beta.

It was actually posted a few days ago, but it was taken off-line for some reason. Well, now it's back up and you can use it to test what level of Vista compatibility your Mac supports, including for 3rd party devices.

This is what you need for all the Vista eye candy:

A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:

1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
1 GB of system memory.
A graphics processor that runs Windows Aero.
128 MB of graphics memory.
40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
DVD-ROM Drive.
Audio output capability.
Internet access capability.

Windows Vista Capable and Premium Ready footnotes

Windows Aero requires:
DirectX 9 class graphics processor that:
Supports a WDDM Driver.
Supports Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware.
Supports 32 bits per pixel.
Adequate graphics memory.
64 MB of graphics memory to support a single monitor less than 1,310,720 pixels
128 MB of graphics memory to support a single monitor at resolutions from 1,310,720 to 2,304,000 pixels
256 MB of graphics memory to support a single monitor at resolutions higher than 2,304,000 pixels
Meets graphics memory bandwidth requirements, as assessed by Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor running on Windows XP

Note that for smaller screens, 64 MB is OK, but under Windows GMA 950 on Macs gets allocated with 224 MB RAM anyway.

jreniew · May 22, 2006, 05:10 PM

Question... I thought the GMA 950 was only using 64 MB?????? in the macbook...
is there a way to make it 224? I mean I know the adapter goes that high but I was under the impression that apple had locked it at 64MB

if not would vista run on the macbook?

thanks

Eug Wanker · May 22, 2006, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by warchieft2k

Question... I thought the GMA 950 was only using 64 MB?????? in the macbook...
is there a way to make it 224? I mean I know the adapter goes that high but I was under the impression that apple had locked it at 64MB

if not would vista run on the macbook?

1) For the size of screen that the MacBook has, 64 MB is sufficient.
2) The 64 MB limitation is a function of the OS, not the hardware. Under OS X, a Mac mini uses 80 MB for the GPU (which is 64 MB with 16 MB used for overhead), but under Windows XP, it reportedly gets 256 MB (which I believe is 224 MB with 32 MB used for overhead). I assume the amount is the same on the MacBook, and probably Vista will behave the same way. That's assuming you have enough memory to begin with. The guy who did the Windows XP testing had 2048 MB in Mac mini.

Eug Wanker · May 22, 2006, 11:18 PM

c|net tried it on the Mac mini:

Last week, Microsoft released a test version of its "Upgrade Advisor," a downloadable tool that aims to tell users how Vista-ready their system is.

Ironically, the machine that was in the best shape for Vista, at least according to the tool, was a loaner Mac Mini with 1GB of memory. That system was Aero-ready, according to the tool, as long as I devoted more of the system's modest hard drive over to the Windows partition. It needed 15GB of the drive to be free, and most of the free space was over on the Mac side of the house.

Eug Wanker · May 23, 2006, 10:03 AM

And one MacNN'er also tried it on the Core Duo Mac mini. 100% Vista compatible, with full Aero support.

Both the Mac mini and the MacBook use the Intel 945GM chipset, so if it works on the Mac mini, it will work on the MacBook.

ghporter · May 23, 2006, 12:26 PM

The big sticking point for Vista (aside from disk space) seems to be whether or not Aero will work. I just ran the tool on my AMD-based PC desktop and the only thing it said I needed was a better video card (I have an NVidea GeForce4 MX 4000 with 64MB of VRAM). That's not a big step for many people--though it won't be pocket change, either!

Eug Wanker · May 23, 2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

The big sticking point for Vista (aside from disk space) seems to be whether or not Aero will work. I just ran the tool on my AMD-based PC desktop and the only thing it said I needed was a better video card (I have an NVidea GeForce4 MX 4000 with 64MB of VRAM). That's not a big step for many people--though it won't be pocket change, either!

Well, my main interest was the Mac mini, MacBook, and iMac, because all of them have non-upgradable GPUs, and because I will eventually own Intel versions of all of them.

I don't really want to buy either a PC or Mac tower.

The iMac is not an issue, because it has a good modern GPU - the Radeon X1600, with 128 MB RAM.

The MacBook and mac mini worried me because their GPUs suck... but then again on paper do support all that is needed for Aero. Fortunately, Microsoft's tester app agrees that GMA 950 is enough, Intel has provided us with the appropriate drivers, and real-world tests (eg. Acer GMA 950 laptop) on Vista beta confirm that the sucky GMA 950 is good enough for all the Vista OS eye candy.

Dork. · May 23, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

The 64 MB limitation is a function of the OS, not the hardware.

That means it's hackable. Get to work, people!

jreniew · May 23, 2006, 03:28 PM

Thats Right, we gotta get to work on a solution for the 64 MB... Im not asking for much... I think 128 would be great!

so hackers... hack away!

dustinw · May 23, 2006, 10:04 PM

SORRY Mac newbie here..how do I run an .msi file?

Helmling · May 23, 2006, 11:07 PM

You know, doesn't this go to show what a bloated piece of crap Windows Vista is going to be? I mean, I've seen screenies of this thing and it's just barely catching up to us...and it's still almost a year away.

Microsoft can't get anything right, geesh.

Eug Wanker · May 23, 2006, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by dustinw

SORRY Mac newbie here..how do I run an .msi file?

You have to run it under Windows.

ghporter · May 24, 2006, 07:12 AM

Bad news: When I started my PC this morning it wouldn't. It seems that the Vista Upgrade Advisor hosed my system by doing something to comdlg.dll, so I couldn't even log in. I had to restore to the saved point the installer set before running. Bad Microsoft! VERY BAD! This is a VERY recent new install (last week) and THEIR software screwed it up. So be warned: you may be able to run this thing, but you may also have to fix your Windows installation afterward.

Eug Wanker · May 24, 2006, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Bad news: When I started my PC this morning it wouldn't. It seems that the Vista Upgrade Advisor hosed my system by doing something to comdlg.dll, so I couldn't even log in. I had to restore to the saved point the installer set before running. Bad Microsoft! VERY BAD! This is a VERY recent new install (last week) and THEIR software screwed it up. So be warned: you may be able to run this thing, but you may also have to fix your Windows installation afterward.

Was that because of the .NET extensions? Or was it the Vista advisor itself?

Person Man · May 24, 2006, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Bad news: When I started my PC this morning it wouldn't. It seems that the Vista Upgrade Advisor hosed my system by doing something to comdlg.dll, so I couldn't even log in. I had to restore to the saved point the installer set before running. Bad Microsoft! VERY BAD! This is a VERY recent new install (last week) and THEIR software screwed it up. So be warned: you may be able to run this thing, but you may also have to fix your Windows installation afterward.

I had no problems running it on my Dell box at work (which I own outright).

But, by the time Vista comes out I will probably be using a shiny new Mac at work instead. I hope 10.5 allows virtualization.

Eug Wanker · May 24, 2006, 08:24 AM

Meh. Vista likely delayed yet again.

The OS was due to be launched this year but in March the company said it wouldn't get broad release until January 2007. Ballmer said Wednesday that the planned January launch may slip further based on feedback from a beta release program and the product road-maps of hardware vendors.

"We think we are on track for shipping early in the year. We've talked about the month, but we get a chance to critically assess all of the feedback we'll get from this beta release then confirm or move the launch date a few weeks," he said at a news conference in Tokyo.

ghporter · May 24, 2006, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Was that because of the .NET extensions? Or was it the Vista advisor itself?

As it was a fresh install, I did have to install the .NET extensions before the advisor would install. But when I rolled back to the restore point before the advisor (and after the .NET extensions) it worked, so it must have been the advisor itself. I'm guessing there's something "interesting" about my system (based on an Athlon XP 2400+ processor) that goofed things up.

SLiMeX · Jun 2, 2006, 01:14 AM

A friend of mine has a legal, beta version copy of Vista on DVD directly from Microsoft. I plan on attempting to install it using boot camp onto my MacBook. I'll let everyone know how it goes. I have seen it on a PC and it is rather ugly, if anyone hasnt already seen the screen shots...

Eug Wanker · Jun 2, 2006, 02:06 PM

Re: legality... Isn't there supposed to be a public release of this version of Vista beta out in a few weeks anyways?

Now that I'm running XP under Parallels, I was thinking of deleting my Boot Camp XP partition and installing Vista instead, when the new beta is out to the general public.

However, if you're willing to be the guinea pig...

I'm worried about the drivers. We already have Vista drivers for the GPU, but what about other stuff?

SLiMeX · Jun 6, 2006, 12:28 AM

UPDATE: I am doing it tomorrow, I'll let everyone know how it goes!

Eug Wanker · Jun 15, 2006, 12:52 AM

I've got Aero Glass working, after some initial headaches.

goMac · Jun 15, 2006, 12:59 AM

From what I have heard, Aero Glass will only run on Minis with 1 gig of RAM.

Eug Wanker · 09:58 AM

^^^ I have a MacBook with 2 GB RAM. Windows says 224 MB is used for the GPU. Aero Glass works fine. The headaches were installing the driver for the GPU. Despite how common this chipset is, the Vista installer doesn't seem to know what to do with it.

The Windows Vista install program installs a generic driver, with a max rez of 1024x768 (and defaults to 800x600), so everything is blurry. If you update the driver, it installs the default 945GM driver, which doesn't seem to be WDDM compliant. You get 1280x800, but no Aero Glass. You can then install the Intel Lakeport WDDM driver manually, but when I did that it still didn't give me Aero Glass, even after a reboot. I then ran the Vista performance analyzer app and after doing that (and rebooting), it gave me the full Aero Glass finally. With the Lakeport driver I seem to have lost support for the external monitor though. I will check again later to confirm this, but it's not a biggie for me, since I'm not be going to be using dual monitors or a projector under Vista any time soon.

BTW, I would have never figured out how to do this myself. It seems a lot of people tried doing various things randomly, and this was more or less the solution people came up with.

P.S. Wireless LAN works great... after some initial driver headaches with that too. Now I just need a proper sound driver...

Eug Wanker · Jun 15, 2006, 11:55 AM

Meh. Who needs DirectX 9? A PowerPC OS 8 era machine should be good enough.

msuper69 · Jun 16, 2006, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Meh. Who needs DirectX 9? A PowerPC OS 8 era machine should be good enough.

Good catch! Gotta luv those Mac using web site designers!

ghporter · Jun 16, 2006, 10:53 AM

Update: after increasingly degraded performance, I had to reinstall Windows on my PC. Cause? Possibly the Vista copmatibility tool. Maybe probably, because I had zero problems until I installed that. Frump.

Eug Wanker · Jun 16, 2006, 12:51 PM

Video: MacBook running Windows Vista with Aero Glass (960x540 Quicktime H.264)

(Check my sig if you want a smaller version of the video.)

Eug Wanker · Jun 16, 2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Video: MacBook running Windows Vista with Aero Glass (960x540 Quicktime H.264)

(Check my sig if you want a smaller version of the video.)

The above video is only 8 fps (or less). Here is a short 30 fps version (captured using a camcorder):

640x480p 30 fps H.264

kick52 · Jun 17, 2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Meh. Who needs DirectX 9? A PowerPC OS 8 era machine should be good enough.

oh my god! thats so funny!!!
hahaha.

also: to admins.

my account has screwed up. some peoples details (when viewing threads) dissapear and posts goto n/a and the names have no formatting. i sent an email to tooki, but it doesnt turn up in my tracking messages folder. also, messages from 2006 have completely dissapeared. and my post count has gone down from 500~ to 350~

HELP!

kick52 · Jun 17, 2006, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

I had no problems running it on my Dell box at work (which I own outright).

But, by the time Vista comes out I will probably be using a shiny new Mac at work instead. I hope 10.5 allows virtualization.

by the time vista comes out you will be in your stone cold grave.

nbnz · Jun 18, 2006, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by kick52

also: to admins.

my account has screwed up. some peoples details (when viewing threads) dissapear and posts goto n/a and the names have no formatting. i sent an email to tooki, but it doesnt turn up in my tracking messages folder. also, messages from 2006 have completely dissapeared. and my post count has gone down from 500~ to 350~

HELP!

See the announcement

kmkkid · Jun 27, 2006, 06:00 PM

So will the x1600 drivers in bootcamp allow the iMac to have Aero?

Dillon-K · Jul 12, 2006, 10:54 PM

so basically my question is: Can a MacBook with 1 gig of RAM run Vista with Boot Camp? (or maybe in parallels, when it's supported)

HenrySeiden · Sep 18, 2006, 08:08 AM

What's the best way to make the DVD in Toast from the ISO file (Download from Microsoft)? Will a UDF DVD work OK? Toast only has apparently an ISO9660 format and that's for CD.