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Markarian421 · 09:35 PM

Ok, maybe this isn't the place to ask, but it's where I ask all my other mac questions. Can anyone confirm if the Garmin USB drivers work on a mini running XP via Boot Camp? (As a bonus, do they work under XP on Parallels?)

I'm thinking of getting a mini to (among other things) replace our old PC. I have to endure Windows for a few things, and loading data onto my Garmin GPS is one of them. (Yes I know they claim they will be fully OS X compatible by the end of the year, that's not the question.)

And if anyone can point me to some good resources/forums for running XP on a mini, you would have my thanks. Well, you can have them anyway. Thanks.

-- Brian

Edit: hmmm, maybe this should be in the Alternative Operating System forum, although it's specifically the Mini hardware that's in question. But if some mod wants to give it a nudge I won't cry.

ghporter · Aug 11, 2006, 06:52 AM

No, it's a question about what Boot Camp will let a Mac do. I'll move this to the correct forum.

But if you're using Boot Camp, there's absolutely no reason for Garmin's USB driver not to work on your Mini. Booting into XP through Boot Camp is booting into XP. No translation, virtualization, or anything-it's NATIVE. So unless there's something very odd going on (and I seriously doubt it) then it WILL work.

Markarian421 · Aug 11, 2006, 10:09 AM

Yeah, after reading more it was clear this (Alt. Operating Systems) would have been the right place to post. Thanks for moving it.

I'm asking if anyone can confirm a Garmin GPS works via USB on a mini because I don't know how universally they work on PCs. The only PC I have running Windows right now is about 7 years old, while as I understand it the mini's Intel hardware is so new that Microsoft not only doesn't support it now but says their next operating system won't support it (at least initially) either -- so as far as I can tell it's only thanks to Apple that we can use XP on Intel's latest offerings? Anyway, I vaguely recall hearing about some other driver problems as well, but that was before I was actually thinking about buying a mini. Thus the question.

I'm basically trying to confirm that the mini will be able to do a small number of critical things my current set of computers do before I take the plunge. I have more questions about this too (trying to figure out if the mini can do double duty and replace my headless Linux PC as well which would require it to be able to run the programs I wrote for that machine. . . that will be odd, having no Linux machine for the first time in at least a decade) but as those questions are not about Linux I'll need to research/ask them elsewhere.

Thanks.

ChrisF · Aug 11, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Markarian421

YI'm asking if anyone can confirm a Garmin GPS works via USB on a mini because I don't know how universally they work on PCs.

It will work.

ghporter · Aug 11, 2006, 01:50 PM

Microsoft's "next OS" is called "Vista," and it will run on an Intel Mini. Absolutely.

Any USB adapter from Garmin is simply a serial-to-USB converter, and that's supported natively by Windows. No problem there at all.

Remember that ANY GPS will communicate via a serial port (or something that works like one, such as a USB adapter), and that's all you need. Absolutely.

ChrisF · Aug 11, 2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Any USB adapter from Garmin is simply a serial-to-USB converter, and that's supported natively by Windows. No problem there at all.

Remember that ANY GPS will communicate via a serial port (or something that works like one, such as a USB adapter), and that's all you need. Absolutely.

Garmin's GPSRs with built in USB don't use a USB-serial connection- map loading is considerably faster than it is via serial connection. Also, not all of Garmin's recent GPSRs have serial capability at all. Nonetheless, the Garmin units work fine with Boot Camp, regardless of which Mac you're using, but it's my understanding the Garmin USB driver is currently incompatible with Vista though I really have not been paying attention since I don't intend to be running Vista any time in the near future.

Markarian421 · Aug 11, 2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Microsoft's "next OS" is called "Vista," and it will run on an Intel Mini. Absolutely.

Not without the help of Boot Camp. XP and Vista both require a motherboard with BIOS, which the Intel macs don't have. They have EFI instead, which Intel would like everyone to use (and buy from them). Apple uses it because it lets machines boot faster. Microsoft doesn't support it because they are lame/lazy/already so far behind that the thought of anything new induces panic/hate Intel -- you can speculate on the reason, but Microsoft has officially announced that they won't support EFI any time soon, except maybe for some servers. So Boot Camp does some sort of BIOS emulation or something (I don't really know the details) to allow XP and Vista to run on Intel's unsupported hardware.

Remember that ANY GPS will communicate via a serial port (or something that works like one, such as a USB adapter), and that's all you need. Absolutely.

Well, if I was willing to wait half a day to load a a new mapset maybe. My GPS has half a gig of memory and I use all of it, scaling up from my older serial port GPS units I think that would take at least 6 hours to load. Assuming I knew just the right moment to come in and switch CDs. And I'd like to get a 1 or 2GB card soon.

Anyway, I was asking if anyone who has used one can confirm that it works. Your answers sound more like speculation and sweeping generalization than personal experience. (Absolutely.) Which Garmin GPS do you have?

ChrisF · Aug 12, 2006, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Markarian421

Anyway, I was asking if anyone who has used one can confirm that it works. Your answers sound more like speculation and sweeping generalization than personal experience. (Absolutely.) Which Garmin GPS do you have?

Geez... GARMINS WORK WITH MACS RUNNING BOOT CAMP. Fundamentally, the Macbook/ Pro, Mini, and iMac are virtually the same computer inside: run of the mill Intel hardware.
When running XP via Boot Camp, a Mac is a full Windows PC. It doesn't matter if the BIOS is emulated, or what mechanism Apple uses to get past the BIOS requirements, it's Windows XP running on Intel hardware.
...and yes, I use my USB Garmin regularly this way.

ghporter · Aug 12, 2006, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Markarian421

Not without the help of Boot Camp. XP and Vista both require a motherboard with BIOS, which the Intel macs don't have. They have EFI instead, which Intel would like everyone to use (and buy from them). Apple uses it because it lets machines boot faster. Microsoft doesn't support it because they are lame/lazy/already so far behind that the thought of anything new induces panic/hate Intel -- you can speculate on the reason, but Microsoft has officially announced that they won't support EFI any time soon, except maybe for some servers. So Boot Camp does some sort of BIOS emulation or something (I don't really know the details) to allow XP and Vista to run on Intel's unsupported hardware.

Actually it looks like you CAN use other OSs even without Boot Camp-read this thread, particularly the post by diamondsw. It addresses what it really takes to boot Windows on an Intel Mac. In short, with the latest firmware, an Intel Mac CAN BOOT ANYTHING. Boot Camp does the partitioning and burns a CD of Windows drivers for you, but the firmware is what does the booting. So YES, Vista WILL run on an Intel Mini.

Originally Posted by Markarian421

Well, if I was willing to wait half a day to load a a new mapset maybe. My GPS has half a gig of memory and I use all of it, scaling up from my older serial port GPS units I think that would take at least 6 hours to load. Assuming I knew just the right moment to come in and switch CDs. And I'd like to get a 1 or 2GB card soon.

Anyway, I was asking if anyone who has used one can confirm that it works. Your answers sound more like speculation and sweeping generalization than personal experience. (Absolutely.) Which Garmin GPS do you have?

I have both a GPS 12 and an eTrex from Garmin. They BOTH are serial devices, even though there's a USB dongle for the eTrex-it's just a USB-serial converter.

Markarian421 · Aug 12, 2006, 04:45 PM

Thanks very much, that's what I needed to know. Sorry if I got testy, the initial answers were inspecific enough that I just wasn't sure if what I was hearing was speculation or experience. I've had Window machines in the past that worked with some USB devices and not others (especially during the dark years of WinME -- the first six months of that, reformatting the hard drive and starting over was a monthly occurrence). So I hope you can forgive me for just fundamentally not trusting Windows (even if it's on a Mac).

ghporter · Aug 12, 2006, 07:06 PM

WinME was a travesty-the worst parts of Win98 and NT without any of the redeeming features OR security. Let's try to forget that one...

USB has matured a lot since then, as have computers and operating systems. You'll be fine.

avramd · Aug 14, 2006, 01:33 PM

Glen,

I can tell you with certainty that the eTrex Legend Cx does not have a serial port. It has a built in USB port only, and you need Garmin's drivers to work with it.

Nevertheless, with the latest firmware and USB drivers, I have been successful using this unit with a mac via the Win XP running in Parallels (latest release, build 1848, not the new beta).

ghporter · Aug 14, 2006, 03:40 PM

That's the Cx-I have the more basic eTrex, which is serial only. And I'll bet the driver emulates a serial connection, since so much of the support for GPS devices depends on a serial data stream.

I'm glad to hear that you got the Cx to work with Parallels-the biggest knock against it that I've heard has been in how well it supports USB.

ChrisF · Aug 14, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'm glad to hear that you got the Cx to work with Parallels-the biggest knock against it that I've heard has been in how well it supports USB.

The "X" Series Garmins seem to have the most compatible USB chipset, including with VPC 7. The Garmin USB connection does not appear as a COM port to any software for PCs that I've seen; I have my doubts that it emulates a serial connection. All of the various GPS utilities had to be reworked to connect to Garmins via USB. In fact, Garmin does have an application that creates a virtual COM port, but by default, the Garmin USB protocol does not use it.

avramd · Aug 14, 2006, 04:02 PM

what is this virtual com port software you speak of from Garmin? I haven't seen anything like that in all the time I've been on their site. That would be great b/c it would make it so that Streets & Trips could use the device in real time.

ghporter · Aug 14, 2006, 04:27 PM

There are a lot of serial-to-USB converters that should do the job for you avramd. Here's one example.

avramd · Aug 14, 2006, 04:31 PM

ghporter, thanks for trying to help, but that is not what we are talking about. Owners of USB-only Garmin GPS units do not need a USB to serial converter. We need the reverse; we need a piece of software that gets the USB-only unit to act like it has a serial port by presenting a COM interface on the PC. A 3rd party solution could not do this, Garmin's USB interface is proprietary.

The point is to be able to take a USB GPS unit and get it to interface with GPS software that works over RS-232/Serial standard protocols. Garmin's USB protocols are not a published standard.

ChrisF · Aug 14, 2006, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by avramd

what is this virtual com port software you speak of from Garmin? I haven't seen anything like that in all the time I've been on their site. That would be great b/c it would make it so that Streets & Trips could use the device in real time.

It's called "Spanner" and it's mainly for the USB GPS18. I do not have any idea if it will work with any other units but I have seen a couple of accounts that it will. Here is the link. Can't hurt to try it.
It appears another program called GPSGate will do the same thing.

ghporter · Aug 15, 2006, 06:42 AM

Sorry, I got confused. I've never had a USB-only GPS device. I currently have a Garmin GPS-12, an eTrex, and a compact-flash-based GPS gadget that works in my PDA and (with an adapter for a PC card slot) in my PC laptop. They all use the NMEA-standard comm protocol, which is based on serial data transfers...