Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Olorin · Nov 7, 2006, 03:52 PM

I currently have a 2Ghz G5 PowerMac, which pretty much does everything I could possibly want; however, there are various PC games coming out soon that all my friends are going to be getting that I wont be able to play. At first I was planning on building a gaming PC and configured a system for a little less than 1500, yet it seems I could sell my PowerMac and get a Mac Pro for the same price as building a gaming PC. Thus my questions...

1. Does bootcamp work well enough on the Mac Pro for it to be an effective gaming machine? What problems does bootcamp currently have that I need to be aware of? Will the X1900XT work well under bootcamp? Will windows Vista Be supported in the Future? etc

2. Considering the Mac Pro will cost me about 1500, after selling my desktop, will it play games as well as a 1500 dollar gaming PC?

3. What factors have I not thought of and could potentially damage my plan etc?

Anyway, I'd rather not have two computers if one will suffice; however, I want to spend my money in the best way possible. I hate windows and if I did buy a gaming PC it would only be used for gaming and the PowerMac for everything else. I wont even use the PC to surf the web or check email. Anyway, any information, opinions, conjecture, insults, or ramblings are most welcome as long as they relate in some way to my post. HAHA

thebunny · Nov 7, 2006, 06:55 PM

It'll do fine so long you get the x1900XT video with it.

polendo · Nov 7, 2006, 06:55 PM

Ghz per ghz the Mac Pro (w/ 1900) in theory should kick ass. The only "but" that comes to mind is that current PC games (seldom few with some commands) do not exploit mutiple processors/cores.. so basically you end up gaming with 1 workstation cpu class at 2.6 or 3.0 ghz (powerful enough -mind you) with slow(er) error correcting memory that costs more that non error correcting memory.

If you sum up things, if you go the Mac Pro route you will have to add the windows license (about 100) and probably another gig of ram to be on the safe side (do not have a clue its current cost) and probably starts getting a bit expensive.

If I were you I would hold a bit and do more research and see what 1500 USD can buy on the PC side. Probably a bare bones PC with a mobo capable of multiple video cards on SLI or Crossfire mode and a huge chunk of memory can give you more eye candy for your spending dollar.

I would have to agree that having everything under one roof is more practical.

Olorin · Nov 7, 2006, 09:59 PM

Well I specced out an awesome system on newegg for a little less than 1500. Specs: core 2 duo 2.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, BFG 7900GT with 512MB VRAM, 250 GB HD, SLI motherboard, etc. Considering games only use one core I assume the 2.6Ghz xeon is faster than a 2.4Ghz core 2 duo. I have no idea how fast the X1900XT is compared to a 7900GT, however, they are around the same price.

I mean the Mac Pro is going to be a better computer than any PC I can build for 1500, but the question is will it be as good for games. What about the new DX10 compatible cards coming out soon? Will apple support them in the future?

jamil5454 · Nov 7, 2006, 10:05 PM

I say keep your PowerMac and build a gaming PC. Windows on Apple hardware uses customized graphics drivers which could turn out to be be hell if you plan on using the PC solely for gaming.

Also, the upgradeability of a PC simply blows the Mac Pro out of the water... a must for any serious gaming rig.

Now if you were a video editor, graphics pro, audio pro, or any other pro for a living, then I'd suggest going with the Mac Pro since the added speed under OS X will be of more value.

So, consider the PC a dedicated $1500 gaming rig. At first this seems a little staggering, (Xbox 360 is 1/5 the price), but if you have 5 times more fun playing PC games then I say it's worth it. You've got to take a break from life every now and then and to me $1500 is fully justified if it helps you unwind at the end of every day.

thebunny · Nov 7, 2006, 10:10 PM

I totally agree with polendo, Mac Pro is an overkill for gaming and three of the four cores will go unused 95% of the time and the FB memory is optimized for server tasks and not gaming. Apple should release a dual core Conroe based Mac with plain DDR2 and some expandability if they have any sense (not always the case). But if you need the Mac Pro for professional stuff, it'll do the gaming OK with a decent video card. Also bear in mind that NVidia will release a video card tomorrow that will blow the x1900 XT out of the water (it's called the 8800 GTX/GTS) and ATI themselves will release a faster card than the 8800 in January so the best stuff is just around the corner.

Olorin · Nov 7, 2006, 10:12 PM

I'm not really a pro at anything as I am a student haha, but I use my PowerMac for photo editing as that is my hobby. I definitely don't need a Mac Pro for anything I do. Basically the only reason I was considering a Mac Pro was that I could sell my current system and buy one for the same price as building a gaming PC.

Can anyone confirm that the custom drivers are crap? Has anyone actually played games under windows on a mac pro? Does it work well or is it unstable and or etc?

thebunny · Nov 7, 2006, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Olorin

I have no idea how fast the X1900XT is compared to a 7900GT... What about the new DX10 compatible cards coming out soon? Will apple support them in the future?

x1900XT is quicker and better in general (better video, higher quality AA/AF, no shimmering textures problem that the NVidia 7xxx series have).

Apple will support the DX10 cards for sure. The only question is when they'll start supporting them (hopefully soon starting with the 8800).

thebunny · Nov 7, 2006, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Olorin

Can anyone confirm that the custom drivers are crap? Has anyone actually played games under windows on a mac pro? Does it work well or is it unstable and or etc?

What custom drivers?

Here's a review of the Mac Pro under XP:
AnandTech: Apple's Mac Pro - Upgrading CPUs, Memory & Running XP

Quad is consistently slower than the dual because Windows keeps shifting the game from one core to another (why in the world???) and to shift from one CPU to another it has to go through the main RAM - ergo the performance hit. This will be less of a problem at higher resolutions that bottleneck on the video card (he tested a low resolutions which are CPU/memory bound).

Mac Pro is one hell of a gaming machine at $3000

Olorin · Nov 8, 2006, 12:15 AM

Doesn't Look like the Mac Pro is a good option at the moment. I wonder if apple will release a Core 2 Duo Tower at some point with graphics card options and no error correcting/buffered memory?

thebunny · Nov 8, 2006, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Olorin

Doesn't Look like the Mac Pro is a good option at the moment. I wonder if apple will release a Core 2 Duo Tower at some point with graphics card options and no error correcting/buffered memory?

Yes, FB does suck for gaming (it's designed for servers with huge amounts of RAM). A whole bunch of people are waiting for a C2D tower since there's nothing headless between the mini ($700) and the Mac Pro ($2500). If they're smart, they'll release it. Or Apple users will stay at 5% of the computing world forever...

ghporter · Nov 8, 2006, 06:55 AM

Apparently none of you folks knew that we have a WHOLE FORUM JUST FOR BOOT CAMP and other issues involving running something other than MacOS on Mac hardware. And that includes Mac Pros.

Out of the goodness of my heart I'm going to move this discussion there.

Olorin · Nov 8, 2006, 02:24 PM

HAHA no I didn't realize that as I use the Legacy version of Macnn, and I don't think its listed on that version of the site. Feel free to move my post.

Anyway the general consensus so far is that the Mac Pro is not a good gaming machine for the price (even the trade in price of 1500), and it will probably have a whole slew of problems when it comes to running windows.

It was a nice idea though... Maybe by the time of 10.5 bootcamp will work better, a mini tower will be available, and perhaps vista will be supported.

ghporter · Nov 8, 2006, 06:58 PM

I'd say that buying a Mac Pro with all the bells and whistles for Windows gaming is like buying a Lamborgini for a neighborhood paper route-it'll do the job, but it's not the best choice. A MacBook Pro would be a better choice due to its decent video, good speed and it's affordable (though not cheap).

thebunny · Nov 9, 2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'd say that buying a Mac Pro with all the bells and whistles for Windows gaming is like buying a Lamborgini for a neighborhood paper route-it'll do the job, but it's not the best choice. A MacBook Pro would be a better choice due to its decent video, good speed and it's affordable (though not cheap).

That x1600 in the MBP won't run games with AA/AF/HDR turned on despite the fact it supports all those features. It's just too slow even at measly 1440 x 900. I know, I have one. What's the point of gaming if your brand new laptop can't run current crop of games with AA or AF or HDR. x1600 is a nice general purpose card, but a gaming card it certainly isn't.

thebunny · Nov 9, 2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Olorin

... and it will probably have a whole slew of problems when it comes to running windows.

I'm not aware of any other than the internal speaker not shutting off. Am I missing something here???

Big Mac · Nov 9, 2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by thebunny

If they're smart, they'll release it. Or Apple users will stay at 5% of the computing world forever...

While I and many others agree with you, Apple is growing market share with record computer sales, despite the absence of an affordable tower.

thebunny · 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

While I and many others agree with you, Apple is growing market share with record computer sales, despite the absence of an affordable tower.

Apple is growing because they switched to x86 and the laptops are selling like hotcakes (and they are nice). Most people don't want an all-in-one (see how many of those Dell sells) or super expensive Quad monsters (despite the fact they are reasonably priced compare to the competition). If they had a nice tower they'd grow even more. Heck, I'm looking forward to the day there are Mac clones again (not that I'd buy them) - Apple can't satisfy every niche.

Olorin · Nov 9, 2006, 05:30 PM

Basically if you want to play games apple provides no solution, which leaves me, an avid Mac fan, forced to build a PC that I don't want to build in the first place. In other words, if apple only had a F##$@@g mini tower with good graphics that I could run windows on they'd get my money. I mean there has to be a lot of people out there who want to play games, especially college students and switchers.

In fact the only system apple has that will play modern games at high fps is a customized Mac Pro
that almost costs 3k with tax. Honestly apple is pissing me off haha!

What's wrong with releasing a core 2 duo Mac Pro mini with half the expansion and half the CPU cores. Basically a Mac Pro cut in half haha in all respects and priced at 1800 or something.

ghporter · Nov 9, 2006, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by thebunny

Apple is growing because they switched to x86 and the laptops are selling like hotcakes (and they are nice). Most people don't want an all-in-one (see how many of those Dell sells) or super expensive Quad monsters (despite the fact they are reasonably priced compare to the competition). If they had a nice tower they'd grow even more. Heck, I'm looking forward to the day there are Mac clones again (not that I'd buy them) - Apple can't satisfy every niche.

Wrong. Apple is growing because the price difference between Macs and PCs has dropped, because Macs are seen as more competitive with PC products, and because people are getting to know Apple through the iPod.

Generalizations and absolutes are always wrong.

thebunny · Nov 9, 2006, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Wrong. Apple is growing because the price difference between Macs and PCs has dropped, because Macs are seen as more competitive with PC products, and because people are getting to know Apple through the iPod.

Generalizations and absolutes are always wrong.

This is Apple's Q3 2006 quarterly report and in the linked PDF you can see they sold fewer desktops (that's minis, iMacs and PowerMacs together) in Q3 2006 than in Q3 2005 (687 K vs. 529 K). Meanwhile laptop sales have nearly doubled between the two quarters (495 K vs. 798 K). So their desktop sales are shedding water (I wonder why!) while laptops are going like hotcakes.

thebunny · Nov 9, 2006, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Olorin

In fact the only system apple has that will play modern games at high fps is a customized Mac Pro
that almost costs 3k with tax. Honestly apple is pissing me off haha!

What's wrong with releasing a core 2 duo Mac Pro mini with half the expansion and half the CPU cores. Basically a Mac Pro cut in half haha in all respects and priced at 1800 or something.

I totally hear you and so do another 100000 people who think the same thing. I think I'll get the Mac Pro anyway (the 2.0 GHz, everything scaled down except the x1900 XT - that'd come out to US$2370). You can't find a PC like the Mac Pro, Mac Pro is a work of art (brushed Al, HD bays, silent...).

I don't think Apple is retarded and I think they'll release a C2D based half of Mac Pro sooner rater than later.

Olorin · Nov 9, 2006, 09:55 PM

Well the day they release the Mac Pro Mini will be the day I buy one assuming it has good graphics options.

Alf · Dec 9, 2007, 10:52 AM

A word of caution on the X1900 in Boot Camp with 3d games. Current boot camp seems to have a compatibility problem that was only resolved by removing the X1900 and swapping with standard card. See below for details. I've posted this elsewhere. Other than that X1900 is a nice video card.

There have been a lot of comments about the X1900 card on the intel Mac Pro. In 9/06 I bought a Mac Pro with a X1900 video card. 3D games worked in Boot camp and X1900 eye candy was nice (see below) until ~3-4 months ago or so (probably coincides with update to boot camp). 2D apps work ok in boot camp, but 3D apps will work for a couple of minutes and then computer freezes and then computer will shut down. This happened with Civilization 4 (and other games) which is not that video rendering intensive since it's a turn based game. Changing resolution did not help.
The curious thing about this is that the same thing happened last July and I found the X1900 input clogged with dust. I cleaned it out and the 3D games worked fine. I cleaned the input even though there was no obvious dust, and it didn't fix the problem. I question whether fan control is set up correctly for boot camp by Apple. Fans seem rather quiet, but fan in X1900 is running.
I did what others did like updating the video card driver with Radeon vers. 8.421.0.0 driver from ATI but that didn't help. Also ran updates for video card and this like. I called Apple support line since I have extended warranty, and the rep was not helpful.
I upgraded to Leopard but the problem persisted.
The was resolved by swapping the expensive X1900 card for the standard NVIDA GeForce 7300 GT card from another MacPro. Windows booted up ok but had to download GeForce 7 series driver to get 1920x1200 resolution. All 3d games, which crashed within 2 minutes with X1900 work fine for extended times with the standard card.
I think this indicates that X1900 driver is not compatible with Boot camp for 3d apps. This problem probably started for me with Boot camp 1.3 since it was working last summer. Leopard Boot Camp didn't fix problem. You might dismiss this as just a software/driver/PC problem, but there have been similar complaints of problems by others in various forums.

If there is a fix out there, I would appreciate hearing about it.

htdefiant · Dec 9, 2007, 12:04 PM

1. Does bootcamp work well enough on the Mac Pro for it to be an effective gaming machine? What problems does bootcamp currently have that I need to be aware of? Will the X1900XT work well under bootcamp? Will windows Vista Be supported in the Future? etc
I currently use the Mac Pro as a gaming machine, and I love it.
2. Considering the Mac Pro will cost me about 1500, after selling my desktop, will it play games as well as a 1500 dollar gaming PC?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what others are selling for.
3. What factors have I not thought of and could potentially damage my plan etc?
You might want to wait for the Penyrns at this point.

edubz · Jan 21, 2008, 10:15 PM

I have a 8 core mac pro with readon 2600 hd in it, and I am having nothing but problems.

avp2 doesnt start

quake wars crashes.

no support from appple.