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dwishbone · 01:31 PM

i have yet to invest in a PDA. I am very excited about all the iSync stuff. I like the fact I can now easily sync my data between my Macs. I think its about time to get a PDA.
I was wondering if you guys thought the new Palm Zire would be a good choice for a starting PDA?
I was considering just getting an old iPod instead.
All i really need it for is to keep calendars, addresses, note, and maybe a few documents to access on the go.
(sorry for the double post. it messed up while posting)

El Pre$idente · Oct 9, 2002, 01:33 PM

16Mhz, 2MB, monochrome screen PDA? You'll throw it away even if it does cost little. Use pen and paper if you want old technology and a cheap price.

Xtraz · Oct 9, 2002, 01:48 PM

I don't get you El presidente. For a PDA, I'm sure some people don't need all the fancy extra features.

I mean, if all you want is to organize calendars and contact infos on the go, why would you want your PDA to display pictures/movies/mp3s also? Granted that its 'cool' to be able to do so but so what? a 16mhz processor and monochome would work amazingly well for me.

Old technology doesn't mean its worthless.

CheesePuff · Oct 9, 2002, 01:55 PM

KellyHogan is right. It's a POS.

Doesn't even have a backlight.

El Pre$idente · Oct 9, 2002, 02:07 PM

I looked at the Clie PEG SJ30 today and it has the best PDA design I have seen but with OS5 and 200Mhz around the corner the price is a con. My Pocket PC is 2 and a half years old and still is faster and more functional than any Palm. ****, I use it for web browsing and Email when I'm in the bath with WiFi card. I can browse all the photos on my Canon camera's compact flash card which I can also use for transfering files to Macs and PCs. I can play full length movies, use a 1GB Microdrive, play Quake, write proper RTF and DOC files and not that crappy Documents To Go nonsense on the Palm.

dwishbone · Oct 9, 2002, 02:17 PM

well, what im looking for is a cheap PDA under $150 that i can use iSync with (or other software) to export my addresses, calendars, notes, and documents to. i dont need to play games or music on it. just basic PDA stuff. pictures would be nice, but i know I am not going to get anything in color for the price i can afford.

CheesePuff · Oct 9, 2002, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
I looked at the Clie PEG SJ30 today and it has the best PDA design I have seen but with OS5 and 200Mhz around the corner the price is a con. My Pocket PC is 2 and a half years old and still is faster and more functional than any Palm. ****, I use it for web browsing and Email when I'm in the bath with WiFi card. I can browse all the photos on my Canon camera's compact flash card which I can also use for transfering files to Macs and PCs. I can play full length movies, use a 1GB Microdrive, play Quake, write proper RTF and DOC files and not that crappy Documents To Go nonsense on the Palm.

Yeah, see the new NV series just released? Too bad its $600 for the camera model, but it'll probably end up on my desk.

Palm OS 5 looks great, I can't wait to use it, and with the 200 MHz processor you can record MPEG-4 movies with the camera.

dwishbone · Oct 9, 2002, 03:23 PM

how easy is it to sync/exchange files with a Pocket PC device and a Mac?

El Pre$idente · Oct 9, 2002, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by dwishbone:
how easy is it to sync/exchange files with a Pocket PC device and a Mac?

Synching needs Pocket Mac and a USB Pocket PC. Exchanging files is easy because unlike the Palm, the Pocket PC has a file manager and can read and write Word and Excel files and many other formats. If Adobe wanted they could make a pocket version of Photoshop on those devices and it would actually be fully functional.

tooki · Oct 9, 2002, 05:29 PM

The Zire is a PDA. So it's going into -- gasp! -- the PDA forum.

Please pay attention next time you start a thread.

tooki

sja777 · Oct 9, 2002, 06:02 PM

Guys! Can't you read? dwishbone only wants a PDA for the basic functions. So why are you blasting him for going for a budget model and suggesting high-end options?

I reckon the best budget Palm PDA at the moment is the Sony CLIE SL10 at $149.

Stephen

dwishbone · Oct 9, 2002, 06:32 PM

that clie doesnt look too bad. i liked the Zire because it was kind of "i-ish" looking. it looks like it would fit in the "digital hub" nicely. im sure that is what Palm had in mind with it too.

The Dude · Oct 9, 2002, 06:48 PM

I was considering picking up a Zire, but after seeing that Clie...I'm reconsidering my options.

DigitalEl · Oct 9, 2002, 07:36 PM

Excuse me in advance if these are dumb questions, but...

Can you sync a Palm device (Palm or Sony) with a Mac running OS X and Entourage out of the box or do you need additional software or hardware?

How does it work? Are we talking elegant solution or cheesy work-arounds? Is it as simple as plugging it into a USB port and firing up iSync?

Lastly what's coming with Palm OS 5? Is it going to be a toy for early-adopters or will it be something even people on a budget can utilize right away? It's coming later this month, right!?

I guess that's about it for now.

G4ME · Oct 9, 2002, 09:03 PM

i'd say that the clie has better features, 8 mb, memory stick, but what i don't like is the fact that is doesn't come with recargeable batteries, where the Zire does but less memory, still don't know, but I am now seriously looking at these cheap PDAs

Avon · Oct 9, 2002, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by The Dude:
I was considering picking up a Zire, but after seeing that Clie...I'm reconsidering my options.

I have a Vx and I only use it for the adress book and callendar. I dont recomend getting a Vx because USB is a hassle and it does not work well. If the Zire where 70 bucks, id have no problem with it, but at 100 its a bit limited.

Id also have to recomend a Clie being that the M1XX are NASTY looking. I admit, fuctionality is not everythig....

Avon · Oct 9, 2002, 11:19 PM

Keyspan updated its USB to serial adapter driver today. I wonder if this update helped hotsyncing...

??

UNTeMac · Oct 10, 2002, 12:20 AM

2 words:

Refurbished Handspring

El Pre$idente · Oct 10, 2002, 03:54 AM

The cheapest and simplest PDA is your brain, paper and pen. Don't bother with low end tripe. It makes no sense in this day and age to have monochrome PDAs running on 16Mhz CPUs. Either use pen and paper or get the latest greatest PDA possibly with cell phone built in.

molala · Oct 10, 2002, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
The cheapest and simplest PDA is your brain, paper and pen. Don't bother with low end tripe. It makes no sense in this day and age to have monochrome PDAs running on 16Mhz CPUs. Either use pen and paper or get the latest greatest PDA possibly with cell phone built in.

well, i don't agree with the all or nothing approach. you have to decide what is cost effective for you (depending on your needs). but the Zire is really limited with just 2MB RAM and 16MHz, when you can get 8 MB and 33MHz for around the same price. better to get the Clie SL10, the Palm m125 or a Visor Edge. i actually prefer AAA batteries... they're much more convenient, especially if you travel a lot. anyway, you can get a charger and rechargeable AAA batteries for ~$25.

dwishbone · Oct 10, 2002, 11:54 AM

i have considered a Visor...but didnt know how well they work with MacOS.
Im really new to the whole PDA thing.
From what ive seen here though...the Zire is pretty inadequate even for a low end PDA. I guess I'll look for another cheap PDA such as the Clie or Visor.

molala · Oct 10, 2002, 01:12 PM

Visors have always been Mac-compatible and you won't have problems with them (you may need to download new software -- available free at the Handspring site to make an older model to work with OSX... but all their models will work with OS9 or X). I read that the new Clie (SL10) will work with OSX, but I'm not sure that it can hotsync in OS9 without having to buy 3rd party software (Missing Sync).

Originally posted by dwishbone:
i have considered a Visor...but didnt know how well they work with MacOS.
Im really new to the whole PDA thing.
From what ive seen here though...the Zire is pretty inadequate even for a low end PDA. I guess I'll look for another cheap PDA such as the Clie or Visor.

sja777 · Oct 10, 2002, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:

The cheapest and simplest PDA is your brain, paper and pen.

True! But it's potentially easier for us to use a PDA to manage -- and share -- the amount of data we need for modern life.

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:

Don't bother with low end tripe. It makes no sense in this day and age to have monochrome PDAs running on 16Mhz CPUs. Either use pen and paper or get the latest greatest PDA possibly with cell phone built in.

False!

"low end tripe" -- the simplicity of these PDAs means there's less clutter between me and my data. And if I don't need to watch movies, etc. on my handheld, why should I throw good money after bad?
"monochrome displays" -- I'm still all for monochrome displays. True, they're not really much good for photographs; but they're much better for battery life.
"16Mhz CPUs" -- let me into a secret: you don't need more than 16Mhz to run a diary and an address book. If you what more, pay for more; but if this cheaper model does what you need then don't worry about the processor speed.
"with a cell phone built in" -- I do believe that cell phones and PDA technology will converge, but again if you don't need it, don't waste your money.

If you feel so inadequate that you need to surround yourself with the latest technology for the sake of it, then I pity you. And, for goodness sake, stop wasting your money. There's a big world out there where you can go and get a life.

dvd · Oct 10, 2002, 07:22 PM

Just get a refurblish or whatever... visor edge. or a sony clie.

dwishbone · Oct 10, 2002, 07:24 PM

ok, let me try a different approach guys. this is what is important to me. tell me what PDA would fit this bill the best.

low cost
must be fully OS X compatible
able to sync address book and iCal data
able to sync with Mail.app
good battery life
preferably compatible with iSync
easy to exchange files back and forth

just on a side note. i was really surprised the Zire didn't have Bluetooth. it looks like it was Palm's attempt to rebrand old Palms to fit in the "digital hub". its nice white look is actually what got me to thinking about getting a PDA. It would be a great alternative instead of carrying my iBook everywhere.

Avon · Oct 10, 2002, 08:35 PM

The Zire will do what you want, but i would really hold out untill palm comes out with some more stuff. Something is going to replace all the M1XX very soon.

I prefer to say away from handsprings because they dont have a flashable rom.

sja777 · Oct 11, 2002, 04:09 AM

You've two options:[list=1][*]Zire -- cheap and cheerful. Does what you want.[*]CLIE SL10 -- also cheap. Also does what you want, but also allows you to add a Bluetooth card (have Sony released this in the US yet?)[/list=1]Go shopping!

Stephen

sja777 · Oct 11, 2002, 04:12 AM

Another thought. If you haven't used a PDA on a regular basis before, then I'd go for a cheaper model.

If you get on with using a PDA then sell it on eBay and get a better model if you wish.

And if a PDA isn't your cup of tea you can still sell it, but you have forked out too much of the green stuff.

Stephen

Justin W. Williams · Oct 11, 2002, 10:23 AM

If that Clie had a rechargable battery, it would be the best option. Nothing sucks more about my Visor than having to replace the batteries all the time, and if I don't, then the damn thing resets. Gay.

Elvin · Oct 11, 2002, 10:57 AM

I bought a Palm Zire ($150 Canadian), and I am really enjoying it. It was cheap enough that I finally decided to give it a go. It's also finally USB syncable, so no need for other connectors. It syncs quite nicely with Palm Desktop, or iCal. Unfortunatly I think iCal should have been released as a beta as well, because that is what it feels like. Slow, and it doesn't import notepad notes, nor does the OS X Address book let you catagorize cards. The Zire itself also has no backlighting, which can be a pain at night if you are outside.

On the good side however, the Zire makes a wonderful organizer and address book. I thought the flip cover was a little flimsy at first (just a floppy plastic cover) but it does it's job. It also has a nice little alarm (which you can use as a travel alarm, or just to warn you about appointments). Other than that, if you're looking for a Palm, you can give the Zire a go to see if it suits your needs. Then, in a years time, you can upgrade to all the goodies if it's what you like (such as Colour, Blootooth and OS 5).

One other good thing I just thought about is the battery. It's an internal rechargable, and since the Zire is pretty barebones, the battery lasts a really long time!

escher · Oct 11, 2002, 02:48 PM

I have a Palm IIIxe, which has 8MB or memory. I only use it as a calendar and for contacts. I don't think I use even close to the Zire's 2MB. My IIIxe, which cost US$250 at the time I got it, was and still is overkill for my purposes. If I knew what I know now, and needed a new PDA, I'd get a Zire.

dwishbone: The one caveat I see is that doing e-mail on your PDA will probably require more memory than the Zire's 2MB. So if you want to do e-mail, you might want to consider spending a bit more for more memory. Otherwise the Zire should be perfectly adequate.

Escher

Elvin · Oct 11, 2002, 03:07 PM

To just touch on what dwishbone said...yeah, the two MB of ram isn't much. but also note that on Palm's comparison page that there is no "out-of-the-box" support for syncing mail and your Palm. You might be able to do it with another program, however it's something that I don't do, so I really can't comment on it.

molala · Oct 11, 2002, 07:05 PM

any of the models suggested -- Zire, Visor Edge, Clie SL10 -- will work with OSX and isync. if you want a rechargable battery, get Zire or Visor Edge. if you want AAA (you can still get rechargeables), get the Clie SL10 -- the screen of this is a bit dim, but has great resolution. you should really go to a store and look at the demo models and compare them side by side because the screen, the weight/size/feel could be the deciding factors.

i agree with what someone said that 2MB might be too small if you plan on storing all your emails on the Palm. if you plan to just write emails on it and send it through your Mac, then you should be ok.

Originally posted by dwishbone:
ok, let me try a different approach guys. this is what is important to me. tell me what PDA would fit this bill the best.

low cost
must be fully OS X compatible
able to sync address book and iCal data
able to sync with Mail.app
good battery life
preferably compatible with iSync
easy to exchange files back and forth

just on a side note. i was really surprised the Zire didn't have Bluetooth. it looks like it was Palm's attempt to rebrand old Palms to fit in the "digital hub". its nice white look is actually what got me to thinking about getting a PDA. It would be a great alternative instead of carrying my iBook everywhere.

smic · Oct 11, 2002, 09:24 PM

i just got a peg-t415s, has 8 megs, good resolution 320x320, and room for more memory, its discontinued, so i got a deal on mine, new it was $240 CAN, and so far is well worth it, it says it doesent support the mac, but sony i think decided to not put palm desktop for mac on the disk, the only thing on the cd that i cant install yet is avantGO, its an exe file

but it works with isync and everything fine, and it has rechargable batteries, and i notieced there is a mail.app-->palm conduit you can download so im gonna try that out and see how good it is

it had some extra stuff that i didnt need, wine list, cookbook, travel map, movie viewer. oh that was a reason i think sony doesnt support the mac, the movie and picture apps link to apps they have for pc only, no mac versions

all and all ive had it for a day, and had no problems with syncing one bit

well worth the money, the zire looked ok, but looking now at syncing my ical and addresses, and a couple of apps ive already used 3MB of memory, so 2MB might be kinda cramped

daimoni · 12:40 AM

.

kidtexas · Oct 12, 2002, 05:14 PM

Just wanted you guys to know, just picked up a Sony peg-sj30 (the color one). Works with isync, etc, fine. You can't access some of the memory stick functions (importing files and such thru palm desktop), since the desktop host applications are only for PC. The screen is great, the color is great, and it has pretty good battery life. I believe the sj20 is only 200 for b&w, which is probably what i should have gotten

El Pre$idente · Oct 13, 2002, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by daimoni:

Thank you. You have a clue. El Presidente is an idiot.

Of course. I'm the idiot who saves money by using paper and pen. And when I want to use a PDA I use a real one that can handle proper documents and not scribbles.

escher · Oct 13, 2002, 02:53 PM

There's one thing I haven't been able to confirm: Does the Zire's mini-USB cable also charge the battery (like the iPod)? Or is the included AC adapter the only way to charge the battery? I've read conflicting reports about this. If the Zire charged via USB, that would be a definite plus.

Escher

Elvin · Oct 15, 2002, 10:51 AM

I haven't read anything to suggest that the USB cable does charge the battery, however everytime I plug the mini-USB cable in, the battery indicator shows that it is charging. It's going to take some more use to find out.

escher · Oct 15, 2002, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Elvin:
I haven't read anything to suggest that the USB cable does charge the battery, however everytime I plug the mini-USB cable in, the battery indicator shows that it is charging. It's going to take some more use to find out.

Elvin: Thanks for the initial feedback. Let us know what you find out/conclude.

I think I had read about the USB connection charging the battery in a C|Net review of the Zire, which I stumbled upon while searching for Zire pictures on Google.

Escher

Anomalous · Oct 18, 2002, 02:17 PM

Shop around for an m105 instead - then you can get 8 MB of RAM for the same price.

molala · Oct 19, 2002, 03:37 AM

i'd stay away from the m105 because it doesn't have a USB cradle, you'll have to spend extra on a palm serial --> USB adapter, i'm not even sure if people can that working over isync.

Originally posted by Anomalous:
Shop around for an m105 instead - then you can get 8 MB of RAM for the same price.

escher · Oct 19, 2002, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Elvin:
I haven't read anything to suggest that the USB cable does charge the battery, however everytime I plug the mini-USB cable in, the battery indicator shows that it is charging. It's going to take some more use to find out.

This week's installment of David Pogue's column for the Circuits section of the New York Times confirms that you can charge the Zire via USB. It just charges more slowly than with the separate charger. See For a Two-Digit Price, a Two-Button Palm [free registration required] for Pogue's excellent review of the Zire.

Escher

goMac · Oct 19, 2002, 03:56 PM

I looked at the sony everyone is talking about and didn't like it too much. I bought the Palm m500 over the Sony.

Honestly go to the store and actually play with the palms. Find the one that best fits your budget, has the best feel, and has a good display.

mrfrost · Oct 20, 2002, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by molala:
i'd stay away from the m105 because it doesn't have a USB cradle, you'll have to spend extra on a palm serial --> USB adapter, i'm not even sure if people can that working over isync.

My Palm III syncs perfectly with iSync using my palm serial --> USB adapter. So I'm guessing that would be the same for the m105. But I admit , a cradle is a real pain and I am seriously thinking about buying a Zire (but first I really like to make sure the battery charges when connected to the USB port)

My name is Mr_Frost, and 2 MB is more than enough for me

scaught · Oct 21, 2002, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:

Of course. I'm the idiot who saves money by using paper and pen. And when I want to use a PDA I use a real one that can handle proper documents and not scribbles.

good for you?

do you want a cookie or something?

escher · Oct 22, 2002, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Frost:
I am seriously thinking about buying a Zire (but first I really like to make sure the battery charges when connected to the USB port)

Mr_Frost: Have you read David Pogue's article linked above? Pogue in the NYTimes is about as reliable a source as you're going to get to confirm that you can charge a Zire via USB.

Escher

El Pre$idente · Oct 23, 2002, 03:23 PM

I tinkered with a Zire today. It was crap. You might as well get a second hand m100 or something. The USB port was ugly and on the top of the PDA exposed to rain (if you use it outdoors).

daimoni · 12:40 AM

.

El Pre$idente · Oct 24, 2002, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by daimoni:

I bet you say your own face is crap... because your tongue sticks out and catches the rain. Time to get a new one.

Who the hell stands out in the rain with their PDA? Nobody... unless you're using one in an industrial job environment.

Btw, I'm so glad your 'pencil and paper' PDA is water proof.

Neither my face or a piece of paper will die from shortcircuiting in the rain. And in the UK lots of people can be seen using PDAs and cellphones in the rain. It's always raining.