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Sony Pulls FireWire from new Camcorders, includes USB 2.0 instead!
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Sad, I hate USB 2. But while most PC computers do not have firewire most Sony computers do.
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Clinically Insane
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This is not really a change.
Remember, these are DVD-R recorders. If you look around, it seems that none of the DVD camcorders out there have Firewire, just USB 1.1. So USB 2.0 would actually be an improvement. I have a Hitachi DVD-RAM camcorder, and it doesn't have Firewire either.
With DVD-R based camcorders, you do not need to do a capture in the Firewire sense, since it's easier to just pop in the disc directly in your computer to get the data. Even easier is just to pop the discs in your DVD player to play the video directly. Another feature with these new machines is that via USB 2.0 the camcorders become an instant DVD drive. They could do this with Firewire, but there is no need for it on PCs. On Macs it's moot, since Macs don't have USB 2.0 anyway.
You cannot pop a MiniDV tape into a VCR or a computer, and thus you need to capture the data via Firewire. MiniDV is better quality in general for camcorder video, and thus Firewire with DV will still be a mainstay of camcorder technology for some time to come. Plus, much of the lower end software is set up to use DV only anyway. (eg. iMovie: I can get my DVD-RAM clips into iMovie, but it's a couple of extra steps to convert them to DV format.)
Of interest is the fact that the Sony machines will also do DVD-RW. This is going to get problematic, because I suspect they'll be using UDF 2.0 and the VRO format. Neither is supported on OS X currently. ie. If you record on DVD-R with these it will play on a Mac, but if you record on DVD-RW with these it will not play on a Mac.
(Last edited by Eug; Jan 14, 2003 at 04:01 PM.
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Mac Elite
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Do most new PCs even come with USB 2.0? My work just picked up some nice 2.4 GHz Pentium 4s, but no USB 2.0...
Just curious. Firewire is still heavily embedded in video (editting, digital camcorders, hardware, etc). I don't think anyone should plan on it be displaced any time soon by such a poor standard as USB 2.0 (huge overhead in comparison to Firewire). Now with Firewire 800, there's no doubt as to what provides a better solution.
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Professional Poster
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Agreed, unfortunately, I think SONY is trying to kiss Microsoft's arse.
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In a realm beyond site, the sky shines gold, not blue, there the Triforce's might makes mortal dreams come true.
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The most worrying thing here is that Sony appear to be trying to move the market towards the cameras producing final production quality rather than editing quality images. Look at the MicroDV cameras that produce MPEG 2 output rather than DV.
If the other manufacturers follow this lead cameras with DV quality will become more expensive. This could be a bad thing for the digital hub.
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MikeS, I'm not so sure. These cameras start at $1000 while one can by a Canon ZR series for $500.
I think what Sony (and Philips) is trying to do with this (and its set-top DVD-R box) is to, essentially, recreate the analogue tape experience (VHS, VHS-C, Hi8, etc.): no (or very basic editing--no transitions, titles), plop the DVD from camcorder to DVD player, hit play.
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Clinically Insane
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I think what Sony (and Philips) is trying to do with this (and its set-top DVD-R box) is to, essentially, recreate the analogue tape experience (VHS, VHS-C, Hi8, etc.): no (or very basic editing--no transitions, titles), plop the DVD from camcorder to DVD player, hit play.
Actually, it turns out that Sony is a bit late in the game. These camcorders have been out for ages. I have a Hitachi one that's 2 years old. And I bought a 3rd generation Panasonic DVD-RAM/-R set top recorder last year. Sony's first iteration of these set top recorders was a rebadged Pioneer, only available in Japan.
Agreed, unfortunately, I think SONY is trying to kiss Microsoft's arse.
AFAIK, none of the DVD based camcorders have ever had Firewire. Other companies who make them include Hitachi and Panasonic. So, it's not surprising at all that the Sony doesn't include Firewire either. See my other post. Your Microsoft comment doesn't make sense anyway. Windows has had integrated Firewire support (both for peripherals and for networking) for several Windows generations now. Windows still does not have any native USB 2.0 support.
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High end audio both in home and auto may yet save firewire. At CES, the 1394b group booth was in the AUTOMOTIVE section. They are pushing automotive hi-fi to use firewire2. They had a firewire over fiber-optic convertor that let's firewire2 travel 18 meters. Don't know the cost.
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No.
Off all the major PC manufacturers, Sony has the biggest investment in firewire. All of its PCs and laptops feature FW and they did it before any of the other OEMs. Furthermore, it is also a huge consumer appliance maker that make use of FW. So just chill.
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Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Is it just for these new models or are we seeing a trend? No doubt it has to do with the fact that few PC's have FireWire and Intel is pushing USB 2.0 down manufacturers throat.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108700,00.asp
That's interesting. However, USB 2.0 has nothing on FireWire 800. 
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well, to me, firewire (either one) and usb2 are two different animals...
I don't know why an established port for video editing would be abandoned to a different port.
USB2 was sort of intended for storage type devices.
I think the two *should* live happily on a motherboard.
Jason
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I have both firewire and USB 2.0 in my new Dell. I use firewire for video editing and USB 2.0 for everything else. I have an external USB 2.0 hard drive. I decided to get this instead of a firewire hard drive because I can use the USB drive on a computer with only USB 1.1. Everything at least supports USB 1.1, not everything has firewire.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally posted by b11051973:
I have both firewire and USB 2.0 in my new Dell. I use firewire for video editing and USB 2.0 for everything else. I have an external USB 2.0 hard drive. I decided to get this instead of a firewire hard drive because I can use the USB drive on a computer with only USB 1.1. Everything at least supports USB 1.1, not everything has firewire.
Well, USB 2 Firewire drives also exist.
USB 2 on a hard drive is slower than Oxford 911 Firewire.
Try running SiSoft Sandra 2003 to see your transfer rates. That said, if it's not too much data it's not a big deal.
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