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Walker · Feb 21, 2003, 09:09 AM

I've got a Kodak DC 4800. I used to think it was a pretty good digital camera, but now it seems like most of my indoor shots turn out quite pixalated. It doesn't matter whether I take them at home or at my kids' school activities (gymnasiums and theatres), the results are poor. It seems the only time it will take a good picture is if I'm outside or if I'm taking a picture indoors and am only a few feet away from a non-moving single subject.

My canon rebel regular film camera almost always took beautiful pictures. But I really enjoy using iPhoto and don't want to leave the world of digital photography.
Is there a good point and shoot digital camera that will take pictures like my regular film camera? I'm willing to spend some serious cash on this.

I am camera terminology deficient, so it is difficult for me to understand most of the reviews I read.

Thanks for your help,

lw

mh0ffmann · Feb 21, 2003, 09:58 AM

I recently got a Nikon Coolpix 4300 for about $420... works great w/ iPhoto and the 4mp resolution is great. Definitely recommend it.

CatOne · Feb 21, 2003, 10:31 AM

The Canon Powershot G3 is a damn nice camera. It's point and shoot but has most of the power of a Digital SLR. It's in the $700 price range, and has 4 megapixel resolution.

I'd recommend you go to http://www.dpreview.com and check out their reviews -- they are EXHAUSTIVE but it's the best site I've seen for researching stuff.

I have a Canon D60 which is a Digital SLR and I absolutely love it. You can see some pictures (shrunken by .mac) at http://homepage.mac.com/b.lloyd if you want

screamingFit · Feb 21, 2003, 11:18 AM

I second CatOne's Canon advice. I'm thinking of moving on from my older Nikon CoolPix 990 and have been giving some serious thought to the new Canon G3. Nikon also makes some nice cameras but around the $600-$700 spot I haven't been too impressed. If money wasn't an object I would be looking at the highend Nikon CoolPix 5000 series - those are great cameras.

You might want to also check out the very indepth reviews at the grand-daddy review site Steve's Digi Cams

p.s. CatOne - great photos!

Camera God · Feb 21, 2003, 12:56 PM

I honestly don't think that you need a new camera; the 4800 is a pretty nice one.

Let's try and narrow down the problem. How far away are you taking the pictures indoors that you are unsatisfied with? Keep in mind that with just about all digital cameras with built in flash you are only going to get about 15 feet of coverage.

When you take your pictures are they a normal tone, or do you get orangish greenish tones indoors?

Also, since you have bought the camera, have you installed Kodak's new firmware? At the camera shop I work at, many of my 4800 customers told me about focus and overall sharpness improvements when they installed the update.

What I am trying to get at is perhaps you need an external flash instead of a new camera. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the 4800 has what is known as a "PC terminal". It should be the metal port on the left side of the camera.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but if you want, you can email me some of your pics; I might be able to tell you what could be the problem. pleisey AT mac DOT com

-CG

escher · Feb 21, 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Camera God:
Keep in mind that with just about all digital cameras with built in flash you are only going to get about 15 feet of coverage.

That's exactly why the G3 might be an ideal compromise between a Point & Shoot and a DSLR. The G3 has a fast lens and can accomodate an external flash unit out of the box, yet it doesn't cost a fortune.

Personally, I'm curious to see whether Canon will really introduce the Digital Rebel, a rumored $1000 digital SLR with interchangeable lenses, at PMA in March 2003. That's what I really want (and can afford).

Escher

Timo · Feb 21, 2003, 02:36 PM

Really happy with my Nikon 5000, though it's a bit more than point-and-shoot. I've been slowly making my way through the menus, learning the functions, and I've had some impressive results.

I like the Canon, too. dpreview.com is definitely the place to get the right research.

Camera God · Feb 21, 2003, 04:11 PM

Man, all this talk about Nikon and Canon; no loyal Minolta users on these boards.

rambo47 · Feb 21, 2003, 04:14 PM

Nikon CoolPixn 885 here. Sweet, east to use, good price/features and image quallity is excellent. Works with iPhoto like a charm. Great battery life, built in flash, what's not to like ?!

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 21, 2003, 06:04 PM

You can't go wrong with a high end Sony, Canon or Nikon. I have a nikon 775 and I love it.

Nawoo · Feb 21, 2003, 08:45 PM

Just get the G3
I'm using it for 2 months+ now and am still learning
I love every bit of it. I get full control over everything. Including the ability to save my photos in RAW format. You have to get an external flash too. The inbuilt one isint very good. I highly recommend the Canon 420ex with a stofen omnibounce as a diffuser.

Check out my little gallery here
http://www.pbase.com/nawoo

OwlBoy · Feb 22, 2003, 07:43 PM

Great photos, I like the content of "::_prima_night_::"

.

-Owl

passmaster16 · Feb 22, 2003, 07:51 PM

Canon Digital Elph. Nice pics and form factor.

robby818 · Feb 22, 2003, 08:22 PM

Canon S230 if you want a compact camera that takes really great pictures. G3 if portability isn't as important. No one has mentioned Olympus and they make great cameras as well. You can't go too far wrong if you stick with one of the more well known brands. I like my Canons for their color accuracy. I like my olympus cameras bec the auto focus is very fast and accurate even w/o a half-depress/focus lock. The Canons always need a half depress, wait, focus lock, shoot. The s230 has an improved AF system but you still need to follow this procedure in order to get the best results.

CatOne, nice pics!

slffl · Feb 22, 2003, 10:43 PM

Minolta Dimage Xi or Dimage F300.

Camera God · Feb 22, 2003, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by slffl:
Minolta Dimage Xi or Dimage F300.

We have a smart one in the crowd!

docholiday · Feb 22, 2003, 11:28 PM

I have a Canon S45 and it's a very good camera: Not too big, yet very decent quality. It's 4MP and has a 11x zoom.

Check out Canon's website, there are sample pictures too. (http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/s45/index.html)

tooki · Feb 23, 2003, 01:45 AM

I just got a Nikon Coolpix 4500. I'm quite pleased with it.

Like most digital cameras (and many SLRs), it does have trouble focusing in low light, but that was to be expected. (I just focus manually in such situations.) Sony's 717 model (whatever the letters are in front of the model number) has laser hologram focusing to let you do great night shots (it has NightShot mode, too, for full-darkness pix).

I have a friend with the DC4800, and we both independently came to the overall impression that it is crap. It takes fuzzy, really noisy shots, and the screen can't decide when to turn on and off (there's no ryhme or reason to it). Horrible camera, IMHO.

tooki

passmaster16 · Feb 23, 2003, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by tooki:

I have a friend with the DC4800, and we both independently came to the overall impression that it is crap. It takes fuzzy, really noisy shots, and the screen can't decide when to turn on and off (there's no ryhme or reason to it). Horrible camera, IMHO.

tooki

I had a 4800 and it was pure junk. Pics wern't bad but the thing was falling apart. Poor build quality. Took it back and got the Canon powershot s110 and couldn't be happier.

Nawoo · Feb 23, 2003, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Great photos, I like the content of "::_prima_night_::" .

-Owl

LOL

scottiB · Feb 23, 2003, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by Walker:
I've got a Kodak DC 4800. I used to think it was a pretty good digital camera, but now it seems like most of my indoor shots turn out quite pixalated. It doesn't matter whether I take them at home or at my kids' school activities (gymnasiums and theatres), the results are poor. It seems the only time it will take a good picture is if I'm outside or if I'm taking a picture indoors and am only a few feet away from a non-moving single subject.

My canon rebel regular film camera almost always took beautiful pictures. But I really enjoy using iPhoto and don't want to leave the world of digital photography.
Is there a good point and shoot digital camera that will take pictures like my regular film camera? I'm willing to spend some serious cash on this.

I am camera terminology deficient, so it is difficult for me to understand most of the reviews I read.

Thanks for your help,

lw

If images are pixelated, especially if you're shooting at theaters, gyms. etc., you're probably relying on the camera's digital zoom--which just enlarges the pixels.

Without choosing brands, look for a camera that has a high optical zoom (at least 4x--there are some that are 6x) and has a hotshoe for an external flash.

Since you have a Rebel already, you might want to look at digital SLRs (like the Canon D-60) that can take SLR lenses--though I'm unsure if it can take Rebel lenses.

MikeD · Feb 23, 2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by robby818:
Canon S230 if you want a compact camera that takes really great pictures. G3 if portability isn't as important. No one has mentioned Olympus and they make great cameras as well. You can't go too far wrong if you stick with one of the more well known brands. I like my Canons for their color accuracy. I like my olympus cameras bec the auto focus is very fast and accurate even w/o a half-depress/focus lock. The Canons always need a half depress, wait, focus lock, shoot. The s230 has an improved AF system but you still need to follow this procedure in order to get the best results.

CatOne, nice pics!

I second the S230.. I just got one!! Best "small" camera out there. I also have a Sony f707 and that takes great pictures too. Only best my friend.. only the best... Good luck, pictures last a lifetime so focus more on your photographic skills rather than the camera with too many bells and whistles. But I'd go with no less than 3mp.

Walker · Feb 23, 2003, 10:10 AM

Thanks for the great advice everyone.

If I were to fork over the big bucks for a digital SLR, would the lenses from my Canon Rebel be interchangeable with any of the Canon Digital SLR's?

thanks,

lw

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 23, 2003, 02:04 PM

I'm surprised no one mentioned Olympus, too! They make some quality cameras.

Just go for at LEAST 4 MP. At 3 MP, an 8*10 will be stretching the limits of how far you can go.

greg

scottiB · Feb 23, 2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Walker:
Thanks for the great advice everyone.

If I were to fork over the big bucks for a digital SLR, would the lenses from my Canon Rebel be interchangeable with any of the Canon Digital SLR's?

thanks,

lw

http://www.usa.canon.com/eflenses/

Not sure, but look here ^.

sworthy · Feb 23, 2003, 03:29 PM

I'd say go for the Minolta Dimage F100

It's small and is 4 MP's vs. the s230's 3.2

no external flash or lens converters though as it is one of those "pocket cameras"

edit: nevermind... go for the F300 , as said above. 5 MP's!

wuzup101 · Feb 23, 2003, 05:37 PM

Can't go wrong with any of the major brands (as someone already said). Remember HP is not a major digi cam brand! Canon, Sony, Nikon, Olympus, Fugi, Minolta, etc...

I just bought a canon s230 digital elph. And let me tell you, it s a fun little camera. With a 256mb card it will take 154 superfine pics at 3.2mp.

I've also been very impressed with my Fugi Finepix 4900Zoom. It takes 4.3mp interpolated (from 2.3mp ccd). Despite fugi's interpolating design, it takes awesome pictures and the 6x zoom is quite nice. Also has all the manual features and of course a hotshoe for a external flash.

If I was going to purchase a new digital camera right now... the canon s230 or the minolta compact 5mp cam (forget the model... but around $699) would get my vote for a compact. For a nice prosumer I would go nikon 5700, canon G3, or if you like CD's maybe the higher end sony mavica (cd400 I think) /w the CZ lends and 4+ mp resolution.

Nawoo · Feb 23, 2003, 07:33 PM

The D60 or the new Canon Digital SLRs soon to be announced at PMA2003 are my dream cams man!
But at 1800 USD, it sure is ex

Timothy Maxwell · Feb 23, 2003, 11:44 PM

I purchased the Nikon Coolpix 5700. I have been shooting with it for the past 4 or 5 months. It's a great camera. If you can afford it, I would highly recommend you skip all the others. That is unless you are willing to pay $2,000 for a high end digital.

bradoesch · Feb 24, 2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by rambo47:
Nikon CoolPixn 885 here. Sweet, east to use, good price/features and image quallity is excellent. Works with iPhoto like a charm. Great battery life, built in flash, what's not to like ?!

I have an 885 as well and agree with you rambo47. I've only had to send mine away for repair 3 times (to have the CCD, LCD screen and zoom mechanism replaced.)

Other than that, the camera works great and I've been very happy with it.

Thorts · Feb 24, 2003, 05:14 PM

I agree with Timothy Maxwell. I also have a Nikon 5700. I shopped for a while, and this camera is incredible. More optical zoom than almost any other, 5.0 megapixels (so no pixilating), and it is TINY. I got the camera, a bag and a 256Meg memory chip for $1200...and the prices are already dropping.

Sean

Walker · Feb 24, 2003, 10:46 PM

Was heading to dpreview to check out the Nikon 5700, and this new camera was announced.

Seems pretty good, doesn't it?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03022406sonyv1.asp

scottiB · Feb 24, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Walker:
Was heading to dpreview to check out the Nikon 5700, and this new camera was announced.

Seems pretty good, doesn't it?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03022406sonyv1.asp

One thing I don't care for about Sony is the damned Memory Stick media. It's pricier than other types, and not many (if any) other cameras use it.

Compact Flash is cheaper than most other types and is used in both Canons and Nikons.

Camera God · Feb 24, 2003, 11:34 PM

The only downside to the 5700 is that with the more zoom a lens has, the softer the edges/corners of the picture. (granted, the high quality ED glass is a part of the lens)

I just thought that I would include that I am not a big fan of Sony's. The user interface is what I would call "not the friendliest". You see, at the camera store I work at we take the new digital cameras that come in, and we see if we can operate then almost to their full capacity within 5 min without the manuals. I have talked to many of my colleagues, and most of them agree with me. So, I think I will end my rant now.

-CG

slffl · Feb 25, 2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Camera God:
The only downside to the 5700 is that with the more zoom a lens has, the softer the edges/corners of the picture. (granted, the high quality ED glass is a part of the lens)
-CG

Well, to add my 2 cents as to why I prefer the Minolta Dimage line. The Nikon 5700 has a auto zoom lense which uses more power and provides less control. Also it has no manual focus ring. I use a Dimage 7i which has manual zoom, manual focus ring, and 28mm. Also, from all the digital cameras I have used, the 7i EASILY has the best interface for changing settings (combination of dials, buttons, and wheel).

Sonys and Canons all add too much saturation in order for the pictures to look 'good' to the average consumer. 7i takes more natural pictures but also has a 'vivid' color setting.

CatOne · Feb 25, 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Walker:
Thanks for the great advice everyone.

If I were to fork over the big bucks for a digital SLR, would the lenses from my Canon Rebel be interchangeable with any of the Canon Digital SLR's?

thanks,

lw

If it's a Canon EF lens then yes, they use the same lenses.

The D60 has a 1.6x focal multiplier because the CMOS sensor is smaller than a film sensor. Thus, a 24-80mm EF lens is more like a "40-125" on the D60.

The 10D was just introduced -- successor to the D60 with same megapixels and a bit better autofocus and more autofocus points. Might be a good way to get a D60 a bit cheaper, though they're in super high demand still. I LOVE mine.

escher · Feb 25, 2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by CatOne:
The 10D was just introduced -- successor to the D60 with same megapixels and a bit better autofocus and more autofocus points.

CatOne: Do you have a link for this new Canon 10D digital SLR? I know we're expecting a new entry level DSLR from Canon at PMA, but I have yet to see any announcements about it anywhere.

Escher

dur · Feb 25, 2003, 03:19 PM

I would go for the fuji finepix s602 since it's an SLR digital camera and can be found at a price as low as $500. The camera is feature rich and looks great as well.

If your budget is a little lower, go for the finepix 3800. It's a great camera also with an SLR body and a 6x zoom. The only problem with this camera is that it's impossible to see through the viewfinder when taking pictures at night (since it's an lcd).

Avon · Feb 25, 2003, 04:13 PM

You cannot go wrong with Canon prosumer camers.

Go for the S45 if you want a smaller unit or the G3 if you want the bigger lens. The picture quality of the G3 is amazing for a prosumer digital camera. Has Flash shoe and lots of filters are availible...

Avon · Feb 25, 2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Walker:
It seems the only time it will take a good picture is if I'm outside or if I'm taking a picture indoors and am only a few feet away from a non-moving single subject.

Go for the biggest lens availible in your price range.

Id do the Canon G3.

otter2 · Feb 26, 2003, 09:18 AM

I would like to upgrade from my nikon 2500 to something with 4+ mp. I think that either the Canon S45 or G3 would work for me. I would, however, like to keep my purchase in the sub-$500 range and buy from a brick and mortar store(but could be convinced otherwise). I know the G3 is out of the range.
Some considerations are:
I will take this camera on backpacking trips so it must be semi-duarble
Also, because it will be 7-10 days without electricity, battery life is a concern (my 2500 was excellent in this area)
I don't have any particular brand loyalties, but I will not buy a HP or Sony
How long have these particular Canon cameras been at this price range? It a price drop in the forseeable future? I have a few months to make my purchase. Oh, and is it wise to buy a new model of cmaera as soon as it is released, or would I get more for my money by going with an older model? I think that's it. Any help would be appreciated, especially personal experiences.

otter2 · Feb 26, 2003, 09:28 AM

Also, can anyone tell me anything about the Olympus C5050?

otter2 · Feb 26, 2003, 09:41 AM

Hve any G3 owners used an additional lens? Is this cost-effective?
Would it prolong the lifespan of my camera? Is the differences between 4-5 mp noticable for a novice like myself?
I guess thats enough for one day

CatOne · Feb 26, 2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by escher:
CatOne: Do you have a link for this new Canon 10D digital SLR? I know we're expecting a new entry level DSLR from Canon at PMA, but I have yet to see any announcements about it anywhere.

Escher

Sorry I don't have a link. It was shown at a show last week somewhere (Australia? Greece? I can't remember...) and it looks almost identical to the D60 and has the same sensor, from what I recall. I expect it'll be announced at PMA (this week?) and then you'll be able to see more details. Basically it looked like it was the same sensor, with slightly better low light autofocus and more autofocus points (7 versus 3). Price was about the same, too. That's all I know -- someone posted a link on an Audi board and threw up some pictures -- it looks nearly identical to the D60 from what I can see.

otter2 · Feb 27, 2003, 07:27 AM

Sorry, I meant the Olympus C-50

CatOne · Feb 27, 2003, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by escher:
CatOne: Do you have a link for this new Canon 10D digital SLR? I know we're expecting a new entry level DSLR from Canon at PMA, but I have yet to see any announcements about it anywhere.

Escher

They just did a review on http://www.dpreview.com.

Magnesium body, and $500 cheaper... D'oh!

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos10d/

Okay now I'm jealous :-/

Camera God · Feb 27, 2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by slffl:
Sonys and Canons all add too much saturation in order for the pictures to look 'good' to the average consumer. 7i takes more natural pictures but also has a 'vivid' color setting.

That goes back to the difference between 10 and 12 bit color. I have noticed that canons consistently have a blue/grey over tone/cast to them. My observations are all made from direct printing on a Fuji Frontier "D-lab" with no corrections in either density or color.

BTW, I have a Dimag� 7. The video autofocus really is horrible compared to the 7i.

Just one other thing:
If you are taking pictures indoors, I would look at getting a model with a 28 mm wide angle lens built into the camera. (none of that adapter crap) Two best cameras for that are the Dimag� 7i and the Coolpix 5000. The coolpix being the more compact of the two.

Notice: The Photographic Marketer's Association is having their annual trade show this weekend. My Father is going to be there

, but anyway, check out www.pmai.org to see what they have announced. Keep in mind though, they usually promise the new stuff to be on the shelves by early spring, but it ends up being available by late summer.

-CG

escher · Feb 27, 2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by CatOne:
Magnesium body, and $500 cheaper... D'oh!

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos10d/

Wow! This PMA (2003) is the first time that I am really excited about digital camera devlopments. The $1500 street price for the Canon EOS 10D brings it very close to "reasonably affordable." The $2000 Canon D60 and Nikon D100 were attractive, but still out of reach. I might actually break down for a 10D by the end of the year. I wonder whether Nikon has a response to the 10D, i.e. a successor to the D100, to show during PMA.

The Sony Cybershot DSC-V1 at $700 looks very attractive as well. Finally, I'll be watching the Pentax *ist D very closely (yet to be priced) since my old manual film SLRs and lenses are Pentax.

With a DSLR, you can get a fast prime lens to take good indoor shots without flash. In a sensitive theater/indoor performance environment that will make all the difference.

Escher

slffl · Feb 27, 2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Camera God:
BTW, I have a Dimag� 7. The video autofocus really is horrible compared to the 7i.

Wasn't this improved in a firmware upgrade to match the 7i?

escher · Feb 27, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by CatOne:
They just did a review [of the Canon EOS 10D] on http://www.dpreview.com.

Steve's Digicams has an EOS 10D preview as well. You've got to love the QTVR shots of the cameras that Steve adds to his reviews.

Escher