Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 02:17 AM

The Zire 71 with Palm OS 5.2.1 and a camera:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhel...1/details.html

and the Wireless tungsten-c with keypad:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-c/

I was looking at the Sony SJ-33 today but it is really overpriced and heavy, the SJ-22 is nice but doesn't come close to this new palm zire and it is the same price.

jmatero · Apr 23, 2003, 08:20 AM

I don't get it..... why can't they come out with a nice THIN LIGHT model like the Palm V? All they need to do is ditch the camera on the new Zire 71 and they'd have a winner. The majority of people out there don't CARE about a camera and MP3 player on our Palm. What gives?

maxintosh · Apr 23, 2003, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by jmatero:
I don't get it..... why can't they come out with a nice THIN LIGHT model like the Palm V? All they need to do is ditch the camera on the new Zire 71 and they'd have a winner. The majority of people out there don't CARE about a camera and MP3 player on our Palm. What gives?

You mean like the m515? They're still making that you know...

icruise · Apr 23, 2003, 09:44 AM

I don't understand why Palm can't seem to engineer an integrated screen cover. Having a separate clip-on plastic cover really make things more clumsy. But the 51MB of user RAM in the Tungsten C is great news and I hope that Sony will follow with high-capacity Clies.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by jmatero:
I don't get it..... why can't they come out with a nice THIN LIGHT model like the Palm V? All they need to do is ditch the camera on the new Zire 71 and they'd have a winner. The majority of people out there don't CARE about a camera and MP3 player on our Palm. What gives?

Is the Zire 71 really that much bigger?

dampeoples · Apr 23, 2003, 01:02 PM

I sold my palm because the functionality wasn't enough for me over what my iPod provided, but these new one's might change my mind

djjava · Apr 23, 2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
The Zire 71 with Palm OS 5.2.1 and a camera:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhel...1/details.html

and the Wireless tungsten-c with keypad:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-c/

I was looking at the Sony SJ-33 today but it is really overpriced and heavy, the SJ-22 is nice but doesn't come close to this new palm zire and it is the same price.

anyone considering either of these prodcuts should wait until Handspring's rebuttal. They are due to release new prodcuts around summer time... we shall..

that Zire 71 looks awfully like the Treo 90 (with a camera of course).

dampeoples · Apr 23, 2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by djjava:
that Zire 71 looks awfully like the Treo 90 (with a camera of course).

no it doesn't, the tungsten does though

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by djjava:
anyone considering either of these prodcuts should wait until Handspring's rebuttal. They are due to release new prodcuts around summer time... we shall..

Really, I thought HS was onlt making cellphone combos now. I can't see them making anything like the Zire which is what I need.

Camali · Apr 23, 2003, 03:27 PM

Do any of these offer Bluetooth built-in or do I have to buy the Bluetooth adapater ($120)?

djjava · Apr 23, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by dampeoples:
no it doesn't, the tungsten does though

my bad, you're rihgt,that's what i meant... tough day at the office.

Anomalous · Apr 23, 2003, 03:43 PM

I would love a Zire 71. However, I agree that I would gladly give up the camera if it lowered the price a little.

dampeoples · Apr 23, 2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by djjava:
my bad, you're rihgt,that's what i meant... tough day at the office.

I've got to go back to work after about 6 months off on Monday, don't remind me

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Camali:
Do any of these offer Bluetooth built-in or do I have to buy the Bluetooth adapater ($120)?

If you look at the web site they clearly do not show bluetooth built in.

BrettOZ · Apr 23, 2003, 08:54 PM

Would a Bluettoth adapter/plugin actually work in the Zire? I think it is a sweet little unit. Although I am curious to know what the hand writing recognition is like on these new models??

torifile · Apr 23, 2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
Would a Bluettoth adapter/plugin actually work in the Zire? I think it is a sweet little unit. Although I am curious to know what the hand writing recognition is like on these new models??

The SD BT card won't work with either of these units (yet; no OS 5 support). Handwriting recognition is using the Jot by CIC HWR engine because Palm can't use graffiti anymore (due to a legal dispute with Xerox). If you've ever used a PPC, it's just like the block recognizer HWR. Very similar to graffiti, but a little different.

The good thing about these Palms is that with OS 5 the HWR layer is abstracted so it can be replaced relatively easily with something down the road (as we'll see when Palm releases OS 5.2 for the Tungsten T). The Zire is a nice looking unit but I'm still glad I got my TT.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
Would a Bluettoth adapter/plugin actually work in the Zire? I think it is a sweet little unit. Although I am curious to know what the hand writing recognition is like on these new models??

They are the first units to use Graffiti 2 and it is much more natural.

I love the new joysick on the Zire, just like my T68i cellphone.

Anomalous · Apr 23, 2003, 10:20 PM

If you take a picture with a Zire 71, can it be synchronized to a Mac? If not, the camera doesn't seem very useful.

BrettOZ · Apr 23, 2003, 10:29 PM

Just read a review on the Zire 71 at Cnet:

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0...tml?tag=subnav

Interesting to note the comment about Bluetooth there:
"An SDIO Bluetooth card, which fits in the SD expansion slot, is already available."

I am really liking the look of this new Zire - has so much going for it, I too have the T68i and I am sure navigation (joystick) would not be a problem.

Now how much in $AUS is the deciding point for me

icruise · Apr 23, 2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
Just read a review on the Zire 71 at Cnet:

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0...tml?tag=subnav

Interesting to note the comment about Bluetooth there:
"An SDIO Bluetooth card, which fits in the SD expansion slot, is already available."

I am really liking the look of this new Zire - has so much going for it, I too have the T68i and I am sure navigation (joystick) would not be a problem.

Now how much in $AUS is the deciding point for me

I don't think getting a bluetooth card is such a great idea, since it sticks out of the device a ways, and also prevents you from using any external memory cards. Not to mention that for the price of Zire + bluetooth card you could get a Clie PEG TG-50 with bluetooth built-in (no camera though).

torifile · 11:16 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
Just read a review on the Zire 71 at Cnet:

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0...tml?tag=subnav

Interesting to note the comment about Bluetooth there:
"An SDIO Bluetooth card, which fits in the SD expansion slot, is already available."

I am really liking the look of this new Zire - has so much going for it, I too have the T68i and I am sure navigation (joystick) would not be a problem.

Now how much in $AUS is the deciding point for me

Ah, cnet, ever the bastion of correct information.

It's not true. The SD BT card WILL NOT WORK with OS 5.2. There are no drivers for it. Trust me. I've been reading about the Z71 and the limitations of it (and the T|C) for a while now. As of now, there is no SD BT support in OS 5.2 and there is a rumor that there won't be at all. (I don't believe that rumor, myself, but....)

edit: Here's a thread about the T|C and the SD BT card. The same issues exist with the Z71.

torifile · Apr 23, 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
I don't think getting a bluetooth card is such a great idea, since it sticks out of the device a ways, and also prevents you from using any external memory cards. Not to mention that for the price of Zire + bluetooth card you could get a Clie PEG TG-50 with bluetooth built-in (no camera though).

Or the much better Tungsten T

Just kidding. Either would be a better solution than the Z71 + BT (who doesn't have a digi cam nowadays??)

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by torifile:
Or the much better Tungsten T Just kidding. Either would be a better solution than the Z71 + BT (who doesn't have a digi cam nowadays??)

What don't you guys like about the new zire? Really? Who cares if a camera is in it, it is cheaper then the Sony SJ-33, better OS and thinner even with the camera.

Who carries a camera around with them all the time? With a PDA you are all set.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 23, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Anomalous:
If you take a picture with a Zire 71, can it be synchronized to a Mac? If not, the camera doesn't seem very useful.

You guys have a problem reading the spec sheets on Palms site? I even provided the links for you.

torifile · Apr 23, 2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
What don't you guys like about the new zire? Really? Who cares if a camera is in it, it is cheaper then the Sony SJ-33, better OS and thinner even with the camera.

Who carries a camera around with them all the time? With a PDA you are all set.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the z71. It's a nice pda. But for me, the bluetooth thing is more important than the camera. I love my TT. The Z71 is a great choice for a pda if you don't need wireless.

But if you get a new fancy-pants phone, you'll probably get a camera too. What is one to do with all these 640*480 cameras?

I Bent My Wookiee · Apr 24, 2003, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by torifile:
Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the z71. It's a nice pda. But for me, the bluetooth thing is more important than the camera. I love my TT. The Z71 is a great choice for a pda if you don't need wireless.

But if you get a new fancy-pants phone, you'll probably get a camera too. What is one to do with all these 640*480 cameras?

I am sure a Bluetooth adapter will be out in no time. I am gald they left it out as it would have hiked the price up too much.

BrettOZ · Apr 24, 2003, 12:42 AM

In the Zire 71 Handbook (Page 12) it does talk about the expansion slot being used for Wireless Communication features??

http://www.palm.com/support/handbook...e71_hb_ENG.pdf

So I hope a bluetooth card is available??

Peter · Apr 24, 2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
The Zire 71 with Palm OS 5.2.1 and a camera:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhel...1/details.html

and the Wireless tungsten-c with keypad:
http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-c/

I was looking at the Sony SJ-33 today but it is really overpriced and heavy, the SJ-22 is nice but doesn't come close to this new palm zire and it is the same price.

They look nice, the tungsten has WiFi!

drcarl · Apr 26, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by maxintosh:
You mean like the m515? They're still making that you know...

An m515 with a 320x320 color display and OS 5.x is what I want. Thin, light, and functional.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 26, 2003, 01:09 PM

I am seriously thinking of getting the Zire 71. Can anyone think of any other PDA for the same price that offer the same or more?

CheesePuff · Apr 26, 2003, 02:39 PM

If the Tungsten C had a larger screen with no keyboard (use lower part of screen as Virtual Graffiti 2) and had built in Bluetooth then I would buy it up in a snap.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 26, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
If the Tungsten C had a larger screen with no keyboard (use lower part of screen as Virtual Graffiti 2) and had built in Bluetooth then I would buy it up in a snap.

Why do you chaps want bluetooth so bad in the palms anyway? I have bluetooth in my t68i and the only thing I use that for is to sync. When I do that it is always sitting right in front of the computer or in the charger which could also be connected to the computer.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 26, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
So I hope a bluetooth card is available??

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0...tml?tag=subnav

"An SDIO Bluetooth card, which fits in the SD expansion slot, is already available."

icruise · Apr 26, 2003, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Why do you chaps want bluetooth so bad in the palms anyway? I have bluetooth in my t68i and the only thing I use that for is to sync. When I do that it is always sitting right in front of the computer or in the charger which could also be connected to the computer.

It allows for mobile internet when comined with a bluetooth phone (like yours). You can install software much easier than with a hotsync -- use Drag N Tooth to transfer it directly to the handheld in seconds. You can play bluetooth games and send files with other people that have bluetooth. I have my powerbook broadcasting its internet connection via bluetooth so I can get online with the palm at home (mostly useful for getting mail on the palm). You can apparently write SMS messages for sending via mobile phones with the bigger keyboard of the PDA as well. Etc.

It's actually more useful than I thought it would be, and there will be more and more bluetooth capable apps and devices coming.

icruise · Apr 26, 2003, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0...tml?tag=subnav

"An SDIO Bluetooth card, which fits in the SD expansion slot, is already available."

From what I understand (and as Torifile posted), this is incorrect (certainly wouldn't be the first time that CNET got something wrong...)

Peter · Apr 27, 2003, 09:40 AM

Doesn't mention a uk price though

Peter · Apr 27, 2003, 09:44 AM

Well thats a good photo (?)

kovacs · Apr 27, 2003, 09:57 AM

Nice toys, but I would never spend any money on a PDA, I think it's the stupidest thing ever invented, I've got 3 now ( all for free ), a Palm V, Palm Tungsten and an Dell Axim, nice to play with for a few days but that's about it, I can do most of the things with my Sony T68i anyway...

icruise · Apr 27, 2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by kovacs:
Nice toys, but I would never spend any money on a PDA, I think it's the stupidest thing ever invented, I've got 3 now ( all for free ), a Palm V, Palm Tungsten and an Dell Axim, nice to play with for a few days but that's about it, I can do most of the things with my Sony T68i anyway...

Just because you can't think of a use for them they are the stupidest things ever invented? Thanks for contributing...

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 27, 2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by PeterClark2002:

Well thats a good photo (?)

Other reviewers took much better photos.

drcarl · Apr 27, 2003, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by kovacs:
Nice toys, but I would never spend any money on a PDA, I think it's the stupidest thing ever invented, I've got 3 now ( all for free ), a Palm V, Palm Tungsten and an Dell Axim, nice to play with for a few days but that's about it, I can do most of the things with my Sony T68i anyway...

I used to think the same thing. It depends on how busy and mobile your typical day is. When I was in dental school, I went to multiple clinics was on-call and had to manage my patients by myself. I had no office. My PDA became a Godsend! I stored patient contact data, appointment times, to-do lists up the yin-yang, many notes and ePocrates for a drug reference.

Now, I go to work and my staff manages all that stuff. I still find ePocrates and the address book useful, but my PDA is not needed like it was just a couple of years ago.

BTW: If you have no use for that useless Tungsten, I could use a replacement for my Visor Deluxe...

I Bent My Wookiee · Apr 30, 2003, 12:14 AM

I just bought the Zire 71. The screen is totally incredible. It put to shame every other handheld in the store and they had all of them. It looks like picture and nothing like a LCD screen. Awesome.

JHromadka · Apr 30, 2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
If the Tungsten C had a larger screen with no keyboard (use lower part of screen as Virtual Graffiti 2) and had built in Bluetooth then I would buy it up in a snap.

Anotherwords, you want a Tungsten T.

You can just get a program called Jot and basically have Graffiti 2.

I Bent My Wookiee · Apr 30, 2003, 05:22 PM

The Zire screen is leaps above the Tungsten and cheapter and it has a camera. It also feels higher quality and not as clunky.

AssassyN · Apr 30, 2003, 05:51 PM

Holy crap...I've *always* considered PDA's to be pointless in my personal life, but heading to college, I began thinking having one wouldn't be such a bad idea...so here's my question.

On the Tungsten C, since it has built-in WiFi, can I use it to browse the internet via my AirPort Extreme Base Station (see up to broadcast internet to all machines connected to it)? I've never even seriously fondled a PDA, so does it even have a web browser that can actually load full websites just like a fully-functional computer can?

Too, with it's WiFi built-in, that also means I can instantly get online with it via my College's WiFi campus network, eh?

Wooo, this looks mighty kool...any help would be nice, and if anyone's actually used it please lemme know!

AssassyN · 06:15 PM

And one other question...how recent did this PDA come out? A week or two ago? And is there ANY other PDA on the market that has WiFi so I can get online wirelessly with it in the same price range?

And do games, like Sonic and those other color games, work on the Tungsten C? Where can I purchase those at?

Also, under the Accessories, it says you can plug in an expansion card for added RAM, and it lists "Secure Digital" cards. Will ANY brand of SD media work? Because I already use SD media in my digicam, so that would be swell.

Too, since it's WiFi, and my 17" PB has AirPort Extreme built-in, can the two just be near each other and sync/connect? Or do they both hafta be on a wireless network? In other words, can I transfer a Word doc. from my Mac to the Tungsten C wirelessly at all, and if so, do they each have to be on the internet? If you can't sync wirelessly, do I need to buy that USB HotSync adapter?

And lastly, is there any solid evidence a nicer, much improved model (any PDA maker) will come out anytime relatively soon that'll overtake the Tungsten C as far as speed and expansion options go?

Again, sorry for the newbie PDA questions!

AssassyN · Apr 30, 2003, 06:24 PM

Well, for anyone else interested, I just called Palm and got all my questions answered:

It'll connect to any wireless network that's 802.11b, home, school, anything.

All those cool games will work on the Tungsten C.

ANY brand of SD media works in the expansion slot.

And the sweetest part, my Mac & the Tungsten C can sync/talk to each other anytime through their WiFi capibilities and exhange Word docs. and any other files just like Bluetooth!

Ahhh man, now the question remains, will something killer come out quite soon to overtake it, and do I *really* have the cash...

itai195 · Apr 30, 2003, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
And lastly, is there any solid evidence a nicer, much improved model (any PDA maker) will come out anytime relatively soon that'll overtake the Tungsten C as far as speed and expansion options go?

You can pretty much always count on new Sony Clies coming out every 3 or 4 months... I don't know if they'll refresh the high end any time soon though, I think the new models just came out. To be honest, in the PDA market, there is always going to be something better a couple months after you by one. Not only that, but it always seems to fix exactly the one or two things that annoy you the most about the PDA you currently have... Just accept that as a fact of life.

icruise · Apr 30, 2003, 10:11 PM

Web browsing on a PDA can be little frustrating at times. You can't expect it to work just like a normal PC or Mac browser, partially because of limitations of the processor and OS in handhelds and partially because of the low res screens. But as long as you keep that in mind, they can be pretty useful too. This is probably a good thing to keep in mind in general when using a PDA. For example, you mention transferring a word document to the palm, but you can't necessarily expect to be able to just view/edit it as you would on your computer. I'm not sure what the Tungsten comes with in terms of software, but most of these work by translating the document to a format better suited to the Palm screen, although some do display and edit documents more or less natively.

The thing that people have been complaining most about the Tungsten C is the fact that it only has a mono headphone jack, so it isn't really suited for listening to MP3s. But I think you already have an iPod Assassyn, so that's probably not a big deal.

AssassyN · Apr 30, 2003, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Web browsing on a PDA can be little frustrating at times. You can't expect it to work just like a normal PC or Mac browser, partially because of limitations of the processor and OS in handhelds and partially because of the low res screens. But as long as you keep that in mind, they can be pretty useful too. This is probably a good thing to keep in mind in general when using a PDA. For example, you mention transferring a word document to the palm, but you can't necessarily expect to be able to just view/edit it as you would on your computer. I'm not sure what the Tungsten comes with in terms of software, but most of these work by translating the document to a format better suited to the Palm screen, although some do display and edit documents more or less natively.

The thing that people have been complaining most about the Tungsten C is the fact that it only has a mono headphone jack, so it isn't really suited for listening to MP3s. But I think you already have an iPod Assassyn, so that's probably not a big deal.

Thanks a bunch for the comments man!

And yep, I expected the browser to act a bit different when loading websites considering it's resolution, but I'd really only use it for email, news, stocks, and the occasional forum browsing as far as web use is concerned. I mean I don't plan on setting on an eBay auction or anything on a PDA, but having WiFi capibility there at all times so I can hop on in an emergency and send an email is extremely useful in my opinion, so it's definitely satisfactory to me.

And the software it comes with is fully compatible w/ Word, PowerPoint, and Excel, and allows you to create, edit, and save those documents. Granted you couldn't use it like a full-fledged computer, the usefullness I see in it is the ability to type something in a Word doc and shoot it via email for anyone to open in Word. I wouldn't really care about fancy fonts or anything, just the standard will do, but simply being able to create an actual Word document is quite impressive to me.

Plus, it's got a 400Mhz processor, which is insane for a little PDA! I've got an old school 1998 Dell PII 400Mhz still kickin' around the house that my mom uses every now and then to type up stuff or access files on the home network, and granted, a PDA processor won't be as fast, still, 400Mhz can do plenty as far as standard computing/PDA needs go. And SD memory cards are dirt cheap, so expanding the memory is easy, escp. considering I already need those cards for my digicam.

And yep, I've got an iPod, so using it as an mp3 player is out of the question. The iPod will handle those duties, so the mono headphone jack won't matter at all.

I'm seriously considering this bad boy...I've found a killer price on one, and it's looking more and more attractive. What's crazy is that I showed my mother and she goes "Oh wow! I've needed one of those at work for the longest time!" and when I told her about all it's features she's just as excited as me about it...she's going to ask her boss on Friday if her company will pick one up for her "for work usage".

It's cool to pull your mom in the tech-world, lol.