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Agasthya · Apr 30, 2003, 12:45 PM

This is a post from "Gayle" a moderator at Apple's iPod forums.

iPod software 2.0 and its features are only compatible with new iPods.

iPod software 1.3 allows existing iPod customers to play back AAC music purchased from the iTunes Music Store or ripped from a user's CD collection on their iPod.

Gayle
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Disappointing to say the least.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 30, 2003, 12:47 PM

So what is it missing other then one game and on the go playlist?

Agasthya · Apr 30, 2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So what is it missing other then one game and on the go playlist?

Customizing the main menu. And another game

But its still really disappointing that Apple is leaving the people that made the development of this new stuff possible behind.

chipchen · Apr 30, 2003, 01:12 PM

come on.. can't expect to get everything now.... do you see older Lexus owners complaining they don't get free complimentary upgrades to everything the new ones have?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 30, 2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by agasthya:
Customizing the main menu. And another game

But its still really disappointing that Apple is leaving the people that made the development of this new stuff possible behind.

I don't know if this is the reason why but allmost all the guts in the new iPod are different. Perhaps the old ones just can't handle it for whatever reason. Maybe the ROMS are too small.

Zim · Apr 30, 2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I don't know if this is the reason why but allmost all the guts in the new iPod are different. Perhaps the old ones just can't handle it for whatever reason. Maybe the ROMS are too small.

Um, there's at leat 5G of storage in every iPod. You may only get a bootloader in the ROM, but darned if it should not be able to snarf from HD space if that's what it would take.

OTG playlists are an incredibly basic feature for any mp3 player to have. REALLY crappy for Apple not to find a way to bring that to the current owners.

Mike

gorickey · Apr 30, 2003, 01:56 PM

2.0 has the new "alarm" feature as well let's not forget...

At any rate, I'll put my money on the line and say that 2.0 will eventually come to the old iPods...either through Apple or a hack.

"Gayle" was just being politically correct for the current time...

I Bent My Wookiee · Apr 30, 2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Zim:
Um, there's at leat 5G of storage in every iPod. You may only get a bootloader in the ROM, but darned if it should not be able to snarf from HD space if that's what it would take.

Perhaps it needs most of the OS in the ROM. We don't know for sure.

Agasthya · Apr 30, 2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
2.0 has the new "alarm" feature as well let's not forget...

At any rate, I'll put my money on the line and say that 2.0 will eventually come to the old iPods...either through Apple or a hack.

"Gayle" was just being politically correct for the current time...

I really hope so

The really ironic part about all of this is that for a long time now there has been an Apple sponsored thread at the official iPod forums that is called "Post ideas for future iPod updates." And now all those users that posted all the features they wanted are left out to dry. Great work Apple

slider · Apr 30, 2003, 02:27 PM

OK, I definatly don't see it that way. I have a ten and I am very happy with it. All these little extras like iCal, and Address Book are nice, but are by no means why I got it. I would have bought my iPod without any games or the above features. I am really happy they provided for the AAC format, that is all I would have expected, and I got it. I love my iPod, just the way it is, I definately don't look at it and think, "gosh, no alarm, what a POS". Infact those poor bastards that got the game have to use the new button layout, I personally not even like it, and I have longer battery life to boot. I guess I am just saying it's no big deal to me.

BZ · Apr 30, 2003, 03:22 PM

I am disapointed but I understand....

There does not SEEM to be any reason not to support the older iPods, but I am sure there is a good reason.

I still sent in my feedback and if the other 699,999 people sent in theirs I am sure Apple would reconsider or at least explain.

BZ

mfessenden · Apr 30, 2003, 03:39 PM

I actually heard from someone that the buttons are somehow different on the new iPods and part of the new playlist functionality (and maybe the solitaire too) rely on that. Perhaps v2.0 is coming to older iPods at a later date.

I'd be bummed if it didn't; the iPod software and hardware has been evolving steadily since the first model came out and I'd hate to see it stop here. I've been waiting for somehting like the on-the-go playlist feature since I got my first 5G!

AssassyN · Apr 30, 2003, 04:06 PM

Somebody will crack it.

allmodconz · Apr 30, 2003, 04:09 PM

I'd like the ability to delete files or mark files for deletion when you sync it next. If I get that on my 20 gig, I'll be happy.

slider · Apr 30, 2003, 06:06 PM

I watched the Keynote, or whatever their calling it, I think it is a hardware thing. One of the points of the presentation was that it featured a new screen, I think maybe part of the games issue may be the resolution. The buttons makes sense too, it the buttons align with features under the screen. I would think if it was such an easy thing to crack, we would have seen more games by now, but nobody ever produced one.

SupahCoolX · Apr 30, 2003, 06:59 PM

App1e is teh suxx0r! JAgwire won't run on my Performa 6400!
People complain far too much around here...

Agasthya · Apr 30, 2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by SupahCoolX:
App1e is teh suxx0r! JAgwire won't run on my Performa 6400!
People complain far too much around here...

Only difference is that your Performa is like 7 years old. By excluding current iPod owners, Apple has reduced the older iPod lifecycle to around 1.5 years.

x user · Apr 30, 2003, 08:35 PM

Or perhaps apple is trying to make money, a noval thought.

SomeToast · Apr 30, 2003, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by mfessenden:
I actually heard from someone that the buttons are somehow different on the new iPods and part of the new playlist functionality (and maybe the solitaire too) rely on that.

I'm sure the "hold the select button for a second" method used to pick tracks for On-The-Go playlists (as demonstrated during the announcement) could be handled by the current hardware.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 1, 2003, 01:22 AM

Rumor has it that even the new ipods ship with v1.3 and both the old and new iPods will get the 2.0 OS in June.

michaelb · May 1, 2003, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Rumor has it that even the new ipods ship with v1.3 and both the old and new iPods will get the 2.0 OS in June.

Not in the new ones from next week?!

Well then we'll be able to return our new ones on the basis of false advertising. The iPod page clearly states that an iPod purchased now will come with the Notes Reader, Solitaire, on-the-go playlists, etc.

Only USB 2.0 support is footnoted as being available in June, not the other features.

On a side note, I'm upgrading from an original 5GB to a 30GB, and am quite happy doing so. Quite often software advancements require evolved hardware. For example, no one expected Newton 100-130 MessagePads with OS 1.3 to upgrade to 2.0, and the iPod has a lot in common with the Newton (including several engineers on the OS side of things).

Besides, if you don't have a relative you can give/mutually trade your old iPod to if you want some of the new stuff, then you must be some kind of only child, cousin-less, orphan!

Zim · May 1, 2003, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by I Bent My Wookiee:
Perhaps it needs most of the OS in the ROM. We don't know for sure.

Sorry that excuse doesn't hold much water.

I've been doing embedded OS development for 10 years... if that were the case, the engineer in charge deserves to be fired for *incredibly* poor design. And even then, a junior-grade co-op should be able to rewrite things enough to fix it.

This is not a technical hurdle for Apple, its a sales and marketing hurdle.

IMO, the odds are 90%+ that they should easily be able to store additional OS code on the HD. In the 10% case, there would be a 50% chance (5% overall) that a HD wipe would be needed to partition the HD and set aside a section for this. Apple may consider that to be too intrusive, but I bet 90% of the ipod owners out there would happily copy all music back to their HD for 5 minutes, to be able to add OTG playlists.

Mike

gorickey · May 1, 2003, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Rumor has it that even the new ipods ship with v1.3 and both the old and new iPods will get the 2.0 OS in June.

Umm, somebody already got theirs on this forum and it's indeed 2.0 installed....

This whole debate reminds me of the DVD B&W G3 scam Apple tried to pull saying DVD Player wouldn't work because the video card was hardware accelerated...they finally released the software for it (because it was totally 100% compatible, a singe line of code was blocking access to those users)....Apple just "tried" to force some quick updates out the door.

Apple will come around on 2.0 for everybody...

schalliol · May 1, 2003, 09:36 AM

Whine, whine, whine. Apple didn't need to support AAC files on the iPod, but they decided it would be the nice thing to do and one that would be most beneficial to roll-out of their store. It's the same deal as TiVo, just because old hardware was designed well doesn't mean that they have to support everything on new iPods on the old ones. Afterall, there's hardly a difference between the new and old ones in functionality. This is a long time for a company giving vastly new functionalty to old products (I know some of you bought iPods a couple of days ago, yeah yeah, but you had to know they'd been out for awhile and probably would upgrade something soon).

I purchased a few $300 Sony Discmans (D-35, D-335, D-848-K) and I didn't expect that they would be upgradeable to new functionality larer, even if possible. In fact, some of them had fairly fatal flaws that Sony could have fixed if they really wanted to, though it would require some mail-in. Apple needs to sell some new iPods too, you know.

I'm happy with my original 5GB unit from '01 and am overwhelmingly excited about all the improvements that were made available to the iPod, especially last month's battery update and the new AAC update.

BZ · May 1, 2003, 09:43 AM

If they didn't support AAC on older iPods they would have lost 250,000 potential customers (original Mac only iPod owners).

Apple wants to sell iPods, they want to sell music, but as I read somewhere back when the iPod came out, they make more money on an iPod then they do on an iBook so it would go to reason that they "want" us to upgrade.

I just can't believe they are going to piss off the 500,000 or so windows iPod owners. Not a good way to start a new service.

BZ

Originally posted by schalliol:
Whine, whine, whine. Apple didn't need to support AAC files on the iPod, but they decided it would be the nice thing to do and one that would be most beneficial to roll-out of their store. It's the same deal as TiVo, just because old hardware was designed well doesn't mean that they have to support everything on new iPods on the old ones. Afterall, there's hardly a difference between the new and old ones in functionality. This is a long time for a company giving vastly new functionalty to old products (I know some of you bought iPods a couple of days ago, yeah yeah, but you had to know they'd been out for awhile and probably would upgrade something soon).

I purchased a few $300 Sony Discmans (D-35, D-335, D-848-K) and I didn't expect that they would be upgradeable to new functionality larer, even if possible. In fact, some of them had fairly fatal flaws that Sony could have fixed if they really wanted to, though it would require some mail-in. Apple needs to sell some new iPods too, you know.

I'm happy with my original 5GB unit from '01 and am overwhelmingly excited about all the improvements that were made available to the iPod, especially last month's battery update and the new AAC update.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 1, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Umm, somebody already got theirs on this forum and it's indeed 2.0 installed....

Apple will come around on 2.0 for everybody...

Doesn't Steve say in the webcast that it is still in testing and will be downloadable in June or was he just talking about USB 2.0?

Someone should watch it again and check.

Luca Rescigno · May 1, 2003, 12:33 PM

On their web page it says something like "USB 2.0 will be added for Windows users with a free software update in June." That's it.

schalliol · May 1, 2003, 12:36 PM

Yes, Steve indicated those things. He also said that there will be a Windows store by year-end. I realize it was a good idea to make iPod owners happy by permitting AAC, but they have made a lot of updates in the past. Imagine if you were using the original software!! Mine shipped with it.

dampeoples · May 1, 2003, 12:42 PM

I'm just happy to see AAC support, damn the games and notes

SupahCoolX · May 1, 2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by agasthya:
Only difference is that your Performa is like 7 years old. By excluding current iPod owners, Apple has reduced the older iPod lifecycle to around 1.5 years.

Old iPods are by no means obsolete. Sure, the new software has some nice little features, but I don't see them as deal breakers. It's just playlists, notes, and some games on a portable music player, not major productivity apps.
That said, I'm getting a new iPod because I just filled up my 5-gigger (damn you, iTunes Music Store!

).

AssassyN · May 1, 2003, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by dampeoples:
I'm just happy to see AAC support, damn the games and notes

My feelings are the absolute opposite. I couldn't give two rats feet about AAC, I want those games.

schalliol · May 1, 2003, 07:42 PM

Original Game Boys are next to free on eBay....

b00tang · May 2, 2003, 04:18 PM

I just bought a used 10 gig of one of the masses upgrading to the new 15 gb and my vote for most useful feature missed out on goes to the alarm clock... I personally don't carry anything around with me with a good alarm on it, and as a college student who sleeps on parkbenches more then most bums, an alarm clock on my ipod that could wake me up for class would be great. I really just don't agree with the idea that apple is doing this because they want to make more money... how many people really will drop the extra cash because of 2.0? I figure its just a matter of adjusting the software a bit... something they are not yet motivated to do (but it will look good when they do "Look how Apple is so good about supporting old ipod users! Mine will never go obsolete!" -joe consumer)

schalliol · May 2, 2003, 04:38 PM

I know what you mean. Features like alarm clock and meeting reminders through iSync are nice. However, it just isn't loud enough to wake me up, I leave that to my mobile phone (Danger hiptop), which is never separated from me. I no longer carry a watch.

mathew_m · May 2, 2003, 04:58 PM

Playlists on the go is the most obvious feature that the originals lacked. I highly doubt that it requires all that much more rom space to include. Apple is just holding out for people to upgrade. We'll probably see an update around june. It's frustrating though.

Agasthya · May 2, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by b00tang:
I just bought a used 10 gig of one of the masses upgrading to the new 15 gb and my vote for most useful feature missed out on goes to the alarm clock... I personally don't carry anything around with me with a good alarm on it, and as a college student who sleeps on parkbenches more then most bums, an alarm clock on my ipod that could wake me up for class would be great. I really just don't agree with the idea that apple is doing this because they want to make more money... how many people really will drop the extra cash because of 2.0? I figure its just a matter of adjusting the software a bit... something they are not yet motivated to do (but it will look good when they do "Look how Apple is so good about supporting old ipod users! Mine will never go obsolete!" -joe consumer)

Yeah Illinois!

Bobby · May 2, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Rumor has it that even the new ipods ship with v1.3 and both the old and new iPods will get the 2.0 OS in June.

I seriously doubt that... They would have mentioned that the new features wouldn't work until then...

Too many people would leave the store and go "hey, were are the new features"???

Agasthya · May 2, 2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Bobby:
I seriously doubt that... They would have mentioned that the new features wouldn't work until then...

Too many people would leave the store and go "hey, were are the new features"???

You're right. The new iPods have 2.0 and I have the 2.0 updater program but it won't even recognize my old iPod.

schalliol · May 3, 2003, 12:34 AM

So, why is there a 2.0 updater? If all new units come with 2.0, and it doesn't work on old iPods?

OpenStep · May 3, 2003, 12:46 AM

I don't care about new features if the 1.3 update fixes the ongoing epic battery problem.

Agasthya · May 3, 2003, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by schalliol:
So, why is there a 2.0 updater? If all new units come with 2.0, and it doesn't work on old iPods?

There isn't a public 2.0 updater program but there is one that comes on the iPod 2 CD so that if you screw up your iPod you can restore it to factory settings.

schalliol · May 3, 2003, 11:41 AM

Ahh, that makes sense, I guess the update part is just because it's the same type of application as used in the past.

x user · May 3, 2003, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by schalliol:
Ahh, that makes sense, I guess the update part is just because it's the same type of application as used in the past.

So the old iPods had the contact list right? If so I don't see the big deal. But the smaller size and weight is a big deal. APPLE UPGRADE MY OLD 5GB TO BE SMALLER AND LIGHTER!!! Oh, thats impossible? Shoot.

derekn · May 3, 2003, 06:00 PM

There is a tidbit on ipodding.com regarding getting 2.0 to run on the older iPods. Nothing solid solid yet, just "baby steps" as they call it:
http://www.ipodding.com/

They also have info on recording with the new iPods which will be officially announced in a few months apparently.

andreas_g4 · May 20, 2003, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by SupahCoolX:
App1e is teh suxx0r! JAgwire won't run on my Performa 6400!
People complain far too much around here...