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druber · Jun 5, 2003, 09:24 AM

Now of course Apple is trying to make a buck; there's always going to be tension between supporting their older systems and wanting people to buy new machines. The new 3G iPods are perhaps a good case in point. Several updates: smaller size, new front panel, new sizes, plus the new software. Lots of cries of foul play that Apple doesn't make the v2 software available to 2G owners. Personally I agree, but I'm not sure what the chances are of this happening.

So I'm trying to think of similar situations with Apple in the past, where users have been left out in the cold, so to speak. Where has Apple pulled through and where has the ball rolled to a stop on their side of the court? Thoughts?

GORDYmac · Jun 5, 2003, 02:33 PM

People need to get over this. Sony and the other electronics vendors release devices of this genre almost monthly, each with new features. Noone expects Sony's older models to be updated with the features of the new stuff. This is how this segment works.

Why are we holding Apple to this standard? iPod is not a computer. I have a 5GB iPod, and while I would like to new stuff, I'm over it.

Axo1ot1 · Jun 5, 2003, 03:37 PM

stop whining. 2.1 or whatever is next will undoubtedly be for all iPods, but the fact is the new ones have some new hardware that the new version takes advantage of.

ryju · Jun 5, 2003, 08:31 PM

what a waste of a thread.

i couldn't care less if my ipod can't play solitaire or have playlists on the go. Big whoop it's my own fault for not waiting.

Kenneth · Jun 5, 2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by ryju:
what a waste of a thread.

i couldn't care less if my ipod can't play solitaire or have playlists on the go. Big whoop it's my own fault for not waiting.

I'm waiting for the SW update.

cjrivera · Jun 6, 2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by GORDYmac:
People need to get over this. Sony and the other electronics vendors release devices of this genre almost monthly, each with new features. Noone expects Sony's older models to be updated with the features of the new stuff. This is how this segment works.

Why are we holding Apple to this standard? iPod is not a computer. I have a 5GB iPod, and while I would like to new stuff, I'm over it.

I would agree with this. Apple users tend to be a little more demanding.

I own a 10GB iPod and would not expect all the features in the new iPods to be in my old 10GB. I can do without the new games (It'd still be nice if I could get hem.) And the possible voice recording may be limited to the new iPods due to new technology.

BUT, I think Apple should get the "playlists on the go" onto the old iPods. After all, this is an MP3 player made to play your music the way you want. You shouldn't have to plug into your Mac to rearrange songs on the go. This should be a standard feature on all MP3 players with this HD capacity. There shouldn't be a hardware limitation the prohibits the older iPods from doing this, is there?

Heck, I'd give up my "Breakout" game for this essential feature.

icruise · Jun 6, 2003, 01:19 AM

The annoying thing is that (as far as I know) there is no hardware-related reason for the old iPods not to have the new features, and it's not like it would be difficult for Apple to implement them.

As for Sony not upgrading their stuff, actually they do, for those devices that allow it. You're not going to see an upgrade for a CD player or whatever, but their computers and PDAs certainly do get updates released that do more than just fix bugs. The iPod is very upgradeable -- you can't compare it to most other home audio devices.

But personally the new software doesn't do that much for me. The only reason I ordered a 30GB iPod was for the extra storage (and maybe the dock).

b00tang · Jun 6, 2003, 02:47 AM

yeah, you know, I sure wouldn't want apple to give my old ipod new features. And we wouldn't want to encourage new buyers by giving them the impression that their new expensive ipods will be well supported. Lets all discourage that idea and push for ipods that become obsolete earlier!!!
who is with me!

kovacs · Jun 6, 2003, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by b00tang:
yeah, you know, I sure wouldn't want apple to give my old ipod new features. And we wouldn't want to encourage new buyers by giving them the impression that their new expensive ipods will be well supported. Lets all discourage that idea and push for ipods that become obsolete earlier!!!
who is with me!

Your iPod is not obsolete because you can't play Solitaire, I would like these new features, especially ratings on the go but I don't think it's going to happy, the 1.3 update was probably the last update for us G1 and G2 iPod users...

dav · Jun 6, 2003, 07:44 AM

if it's a large amount of effort to bring these new features to older ipods, then i understand. if it's a tiny amount of effort, then i don't.
i think i'll skip the third gen and wait for the fourth anyway.

GORDYmac · Jun 6, 2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Icruise:
You're not going to see an upgrade for a CD player or whatever, but their computers and PDAs certainly do get updates released that do more than just fix bugs. The iPod is very upgradeable -- you can't compare it to most other home audio devices.

All Apple signed on to do was make sure that additional music formats would be supported via upgrades. Unless you're on iPod's design team, you have no clue what 1G and 2G may or may not be able to support. 3G looks to be about 75% redesigned to me.

Also, iPods fall into the genre of minidisc players, MP3 players, and such, not PDA's and Computers. Who adds features to existing portable music players after their release, besides Apple? There we go again.

My 5GB iPod is still awsome.

druber · Jun 6, 2003, 09:47 AM

What I was trying to ask is how many times Apple has brought features to older models. Negative example, but monitor spanning with dUSB iBooks. People have hacked this to work, but Apple's never officially supported it, even though it seems not to require any changes to hardware. Apple wanted that to be a PowerBook feature to delineate the two lines. Do you think Apple's seeking to draw the same separation here?

Can anyone think of times Apple has added features to old models of Apple hardware that had initially been released with new machines? i.e., would their track record suggest any chance of 1G/2G iPods being supported by v2 later on?

icruise · Jun 6, 2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by druber:
What I was trying to ask is how many times Apple has brought features to older models. Negative example, but monitor spanning with dUSB iBooks. People have hacked this to work, but Apple's never officially supported it, even though it seems not to require any changes to hardware. Apple wanted that to be a PowerBook feature to delineate the two lines. Do you think Apple's seeking to draw the same separation here?

Can anyone think of times Apple has added features to old models of Apple hardware that had initially been released with new machines? i.e., would their track record suggest any chance of 1G/2G iPods being supported by v2 later on?

Since they haven't done it yet, I don't think they will be doing it at all. I imagine that it is a marketing decision, since if they released the new software for the old models the new models would seem even less impressive (even as it is they aren't that different).

druber · Jun 6, 2003, 10:08 AM

Well, and they aren't being made any more. There are a few new 2G units out there, but it's not like Apple doesn't want to sell those, like they want to take a loss. So they're not in direct competition. As far as upgrading goes, have you heard of anyone who owned a 2G 10gig going out and buying a 3G 10gig for the new form factor and software? Is the v2 software really going to drive sales? If it is, well drive on. If it's not, and for the sake of argument let's assume v2 works on 2G hardware, what would Apple's motivation be no to? Big assumption there, but since no one seems to know beyond "Well I think...".

icruise · Jun 6, 2003, 04:19 PM

No offense, but all you're likely to get around here is "I think" -- we don't have a direct line into Apple any more than you do. I think this is essentially the same situation as with the new Powerbooks. The 17" has a backlit keyboard and the the 12" doesn't. Apple admitted that it wasn't because of technical reasons or cost, but for marketing -- because they wanted the 17" to seem more attractive. Same thing here, if you ask me.