[mmurray]

I was interested to know how all the IPAQ users find using them with Macs and Airport Base Stations. And how they compare to a Palm ?


Thanks - Michael

[maxintosh]

I recently made the switch from Palm to PocketPC right after The Missing Sync came out.

I have to say, Pocket PCs and Palms are very different animals. Pocket PCs are extremely powerful -- they're like small computers in the palm of your hand. Practically all the performance issues they had in the past have been addressed in the new Intel XScale / Windows Mobile 2003 devices. They're very fast. They can stream full-screen video, recognize natural handwriting, multitask efficiently, and play music in the background without any noticeable lag.

Palm, still the leader in the handheld market, has long held onto its decree of simplicity and user-friendliness. Palms are easy to use and make excellent organizers, especially with Agendus. Palm has only recently realized that handheld users want multimedia, and Palm OS 5 is the first hack attempt at doing it. I had a Tungsten|T, and I was disappointed. It's laggy with music, video is choppy, and any multitasking it emulates is a hack -- it slows down processes a lot.

That said, Palms are still the preferred choice of many a handheld user because they are simple and get the job done. If you're looking for a handheld *computer*, get a Pocket PC. The learning curve is steeper but the end result is a pocket-sized device that is much more capable than any Palm out there.

My iPaq plays nicely with my AirPort base station, by the way.

[mmurray]

Thanks Maxintosh

What do you think of battery life ?


Michael

[maxintosh]

Battery life on the iPaq 2215 is stellar. I use it all day, browsing the web, doodling, writing notes and come home every night with about 63% left. All I know is my Tungsten would often die after a day of hard work.

The screen is so bright I only have it at about 2/3rds brightness.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by mmurray:
I was interested to know how all the IPAQ users find using them with Macs and Airport Base Stations. And how they compare to a Palm ?

I've heard that the Missing Sync is quite buggy with the various Pocket PC's....

However, Palm vs. PPC. Primarily a matter of what you want to do. Want a great organizer with the most available software and in the box support for Mac, get a Palm. If you want gee-whiz features you'll probably never use (media, word, excel, etc) and limited Mac support, get a PPC. (All those are avilable for Palm as well)

Me, I started with MS's hacks of a pocket OS - tried a NEC MobilePro, Philips Nino, and before I got my Handspring looked at the PPC offerings. Not impressed - slow and very clunky for what I use a PIM for. Got the Handspring and now have a Tungsten and LOVE it.

As far as people wanting the media stuff - not really - Palm still sells the most handhelds by a large margin, so people really don't place a priority on it... It's cool for the first week, but then quickly gets old.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by mbryda:
I've heard that the Missing Sync is quite buggy with the various Pocket PC's....

However, Palm vs. PPC. Primarily a matter of what you want to do. Want a great organizer with the most available software and in the box support for Mac, get a Palm. If you want gee-whiz features you'll probably never use (media, word, excel, etc) and limited Mac support, get a PPC. (All those are avilable for Palm as well)

Me, I started with MS's hacks of a pocket OS - tried a NEC MobilePro, Philips Nino, and before I got my Handspring looked at the PPC offerings. Not impressed - slow and very clunky for what I use a PIM for. Got the Handspring and now have a Tungsten and LOVE it.

As far as people wanting the media stuff - not really - Palm still sells the most handhelds by a large margin, so people really don't place a priority on it... It's cool for the first week, but then quickly gets old.

Speaking as someone who has owned a Palm Pilot Pro, IIIx, V, Vx, m130, Treo 180 and Tungsten | T... I still insist that Pocket PC is a better platform for enthusiasts.

In fact, Pocket PC is sort of the Mac of the handheld world. Well though-out, with a few killer software titles. but often overlooked. In fact, I would venture to say it's the only handheld I've had that doesn't make me miss my good ol' Message Pad 2100.

Microsoft really nailed it on the head with Windows Mobile 2003. Previous Pocket PCs were indeed clunky and slow, but the hardware and software are FINALLY well mated with each other. My iPaq 2215 is faster in every way for normal functions than my T|T was, and it simply blows it WAYYY out of the water in terms of multimedia, internet access and multitasking.

So again... Palms make great PIMs, PPCs make better handheld computers.

We'll see when Palm OS 6 comes out... but Palm really needs to rewrite the entire operating system to get it to multitask efficiently if they want it to compete. Unfortunately, software probably won't be cross-compatable.

[Paco500]

I briefly owned a Toshiba e740 PPC and traded it in on a Palm TungstenC. While I like the Palm better, neither was/is totally, or even mostly, satisfying.

Maybe the iPaq's batteries are worlds better than the Toshiba's, but one of my biggest complaints was with battery life. If I had WiFi going, I got 2 hours MAX. The Palm I can can still go days without charging.

Software is still much easier to find with the Palm, however, both are lacking in terms of connectivity. Both web browsers, in a word, suck, and finding a decent SSH client has been all but impossible. The hardware and concept of connectivity seems to be far ahead of the software.

The Palm is still primarily an organizer, and the PPC more of a handheld computer I suppose. But the PPC seems lost in the middle a bit. While it could be a great little machine, it's still too hard to install sofware (I got rid of mine before the release of missing sync). It astounded me that you could not go to a web site, downlaod and install the software on the handheld.

I would love to have a real mini computer- perhaps the Zarus will one day mature enough to be the answer.

I don't know if I have been helpful. Probably not. It seems Handhelds are in their adolecence- and very awkward. You can clearly see the potental, but they haven grown up yet.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Paco500:
I briefly owned a Toshiba e740 PPC and traded it in on a Palm TungstenC. While I like the Palm better, neither was/is totally, or even mostly, satisfying.

Maybe the iPaq's batteries are worlds better than the Toshiba's, but one of my biggest complaints was with battery life. If I had WiFi going, I got 2 hours MAX. The Palm I can can still go days without charging.

Software is still much easier to find with the Palm, however, both are lacking in terms of connectivity. Both web browsers, in a word, suck, and finding a decent SSH client has been all but impossible. The hardware and concept of connectivity seems to be far ahead of the software.

The Palm is still primarily an organizer, and the PPC more of a handheld computer I suppose. But the PPC seems lost in the middle a bit. While it could be a great little machine, it's still too hard to install sofware (I got rid of mine before the release of missing sync). It astounded me that you could not go to a web site, downlaod and install the software on the handheld.

I would love to have a real mini computer- perhaps the Zarus will one day mature enough to be the answer.

I don't know if I have been helpful. Probably not. It seems Handhelds are in their adolecence- and very awkward. You can clearly see the potental, but they haven grown up yet.

The e740 uses the older version of Pocket PC, which has some performance issues and an old version of Internet Explorer. Windows Mobile 2003 formats web pages much better to fit on the screen. Also, I've read complaints about battery life before, but WiFi is a power-sucking vortex.

PPC might be "lost in the middle", but they sure cover a lot more than Palms do. I agree that handhelds are still in a bit of an awkward phase. The #1 thing I didn't like about Palm, Inc.'s handhelds are the tiinnnyyy screens -- I can fit so much more information on the screen with PPC which really makes it more practical for taking notes. Sony's proprietary HiRes+ isn't an answer because so few applications actually use it.

[Paco500]

Originally posted by maxintosh:
The e740 uses the older version of Pocket PC, which has some performance issues and an old version of Internet Explorer. Windows Mobile 2003 formats web pages much better to fit on the screen. Also, I've read complaints about battery life before, but WiFi is a power-sucking vortex.

PPC might be "lost in the middle", but they sure cover a lot more than Palms do. I agree that handhelds are still in a bit of an awkward phase. The #1 thing I didn't like about Palm, Inc.'s handhelds are the tiinnnyyy screens -- I can fit so much more information on the screen with PPC which really makes it more practical for taking notes. Sony's proprietary HiRes+ isn't an answer because so few applications actually use it.

I not diagreeing with you at all- I'm just a bit confused. Both the 740 and the C have WiFi- I just get a whole lot more battery life using the WiFi on the C than I did on the 740- perhaps better power management? I dunno- they both have the same processor.

As for the screen- the Palm is 320 x 320- PPC tops out at 320 x 240. PPC's may have, in some cases, bigger screens physically- but the palms CAN have higher resolution. Some of the Clie's go even higher. One issue w/ palm, is, however, that there is still quite a bit of software that doesn't take advantage of the higher res screens- but when it does (and a lot does) Palm is ahead in this.

Another thing I do love about the C is the thumboard. If PPC 2003 is as good as you say, I would consider another if someone would release one with a thumboard. It it so much better at inputing data that virtual keybaord, grafitti, or any other recognizer. If you are looking to just get data out- the pen based navagation of either system is fine- but when you are writing email, typing in urls, taking notes, etc, the thumbaird rules. I have been a grafitti proponent for ever, and went for the C for the WiFi, faster processor and larger memory- but I have come to LOVE the thumboard. I know you can buy snap on ones for PPC (and palms w/o) but that adds to the size, weight and complexity.

I will not but another PDA w/o a thumboard- it's a revelation.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Paco500:
I not diagreeing with you at all- I'm just a bit confused. Both the 740 and the C have WiFi- I just get a whole lot more battery life using the WiFi on the C than I did on the 740- perhaps better power management? I dunno- they both have the same processor.

As for the screen- the Palm is 320 x 320- PPC tops out at 320 x 240. PPC's may have, in some cases, bigger screens physically- but the palms CAN have higher resolution. Some of the Clie's go even higher. One issue w/ palm, is, however, that there is still quite a bit of software that doesn't take advantage of the higher res screens- but when it does (and a lot does) Palm is ahead in this.

Another thing I do love about the C is the thumboard. If PPC 2003 is as good as you say, I would consider another if someone would release one with a thumboard. It it so much better at inputing data that virtual keybaord, grafitti, or any other recognizer. If you are looking to just get data out- the pen based navagation of either system is fine- but when you are writing email, typing in urls, taking notes, etc, the thumbaird rules. I have been a grafitti proponent for ever, and went for the C for the WiFi, faster processor and larger memory- but I have come to LOVE the thumboard. I know you can buy snap on ones for PPC (and palms w/o) but that adds to the size, weight and complexity.

I will not but another PDA w/o a thumboard- it's a revelation.

I meant that Toshiba's don't have the best power management. HP's iPaq line seems to be better, I can use mine non-stop all day and still have life left.

I know that Palms have higher resolution, but physical size really makes the difference for me, because I often use a fold-out keyboard for notes in class. On my T|T, everything was TINY and if I zoomed in I could only see a few lines. Plus the T|T's screen was... well... AWFUL.

Again... who cares about Clies... nobody supports them!

Thumboards I'm mixed on... my Handspring 180 had one... it was a little awkward for my fat thumbs and the worst part was switching between using the stylus and keyboard -- it was like juggling. I use Calligrapher (replaces Transcriber) for handheld data entry. You can type in a web address by writing the site ("apple") then writing "www" and circling it, and it automatically places "http://www.apple.com/". Now that is pretty slick. I prefer HWR for quick entry -- plus the lack of a thumboard allows the screen to be much longer without the unit physically getting larger.

For long documents, I use the fold-out keyboard and on a PPC I can actually SEE what I'm typing.

The T|C and T|W (a silly device) are the only Palms that offer thumboards anyways, and the Sony Clie ones are terrible, wretched, HORRIBLE!