[tvfollower]

Oh no, a PC user on MacNN.com! Kill him! Stone him!

Anyway, for college I am going to need a laptop, and I am very intent on getting a Powerbook (hopefully Powerbook G5s will exist next year). I am currently a PC user, but I have basically been convinced that Macs are the way to go...the sexy looks and speed turn me on.

But, I'm also thinking about getting a Pocket PC (specifically, the HP iPaq 1945, or perhaps the newest descendant of that when the time comes), and I was wondering what Mac users have to say about Pocket PCs. Personally, I think that Pocket PCs are bulky and weird, but then came along the iPaq 1910, and it convinced me that Pocket PCs can be both small (it's thinner than any Palm I've ever seen) and fast, and I love the built in Pocket Word and Pocket Excel.

So my dillema is:

1) Do Mac users not like Pocket PCs?
2) Is it awkward to use Pocket PCs with Macs?
3) Is technology such as "The Missing Sync for Pocket
PC" (Pocket PC iSync conduit for syncing with iCal, iTunes, etc.) perfected enough to be usable?

Any advice? Should I just stick with Palms? The iPaq 1945 is just so damn amazing, though! I can imagine what a similar iPaq next year will be like...

[maxintosh]

Hello!

First off, don't hold your breath for a G5 laptop just yet ;-)

I use a PowerBook G4 and an iPaq 2215 (I would reccomend it over the 1945, personally-- better processor and more expansion options). I was a long-time Palm user but finally got fed up with Palm's attitude that since they have the most market share, they only have to innovate just enough to stay on top. Palms are now just really expensive organizers with hack-jobs to play MP3s and movies. They lack a real filesystem, a real multitasking OS, and have very weak standards which is especially difficult for Sony's proprietary Clie line.

I LOVE my iPaq 2215. Windows Mobile definately has a higher learning curve, but (for a Microsoft product at least) is very well thought out.

To answer your questions:
1) No, Mac users don't hate Pocket PCs. In fact, I think that the Pocket PC is sort of the Mac of the handheld world. Sure, it's got less market share and fewer programs, but it's a heck of a lot more powerful and the programs that do exist for it are fantastic--plus, it functions so much better than my old Tungsten right out of the box - real MP3, internet access, and media playback! I also have a lovely dark glossy Apple theme on my iPaq so I can show off my Mac pride (people ask me if it's a new Apple handheld, hehe)

2) No, not for syncing up calendars and addresses. Mark|Space has done a nice job with Missing Sync overall. The most awkward thing about it is the fact that, for some reason, a lot of PPC developers distribute their apps as Windows .EXE installers. However, with Mac users coming to the platform, Mark|Space and Mac users are pushing for distribution of these files as either Mac installers or .CAB files which can be installed right to the Pocket PC. In fact, some developers have already posted Mac installers for their PPC software -- after only a couple weeks!

3) Read above. It's perfectly useable. Mark|Space is very good about updates. Missing Sync still needs refinement, but all the vitals are there. In face, I got my iPaq to share my Mac's AirPort connection over Bluetooth almost instantly, which means I can walk around with it and surf the net. Pretty cool!

[tvfollower]

Wow, that was amazingly helpful. As opposed to the response I got at Spymac.com (they insulted Pocket PCs, calling them "Pocket Pissers"), here I got a reasonable outlook on my situation...which is quite comparable to yours, hehe.

On a different note, would you say that the 2215 is almost as thin as the 1945? 0.6 inches vs. 0.5 inches wouldn't normally make a difference, but when I see the two, the 1945 just looks so much thinner and more portable.

Also, where would I find a Mac theme for the Pocket PC?

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by tvfollower:
Wow, that was amazingly helpful. As opposed to the response I got at Spymac.com (they insulted Pocket PCs, calling them "Pocket Pissers"), here I got a reasonable outlook on my situation...which is quite comparable to yours, hehe.

On a different note, would you say that the 2215 is almost as thin as the 1945? 0.6 inches vs. 0.5 inches wouldn't normally make a difference, but when I see the two, the 1945 just looks so much thinner and more portable.

Also, where would I find a Mac theme for the Pocket PC?

The 2215 is a little thicker than the 1945, but honestly, I'd take the 2215's functionality over the 1945's any day.

I found my theme at www.pocketpcthemes.com.

Hope you'll join the Mac family soon, I've been using Macs since 1984 but I'm not ashamed to say I like Pocket PCs too (even though I still hate working with Windows on desktops). After all, M$ did license or base much of the PPC's technology from the Newton, of which I still have a couple lying around The hilarious thing is that my iPaq fits INSIDE the Newton's screen (!) That thing was a tank, but the GUI is classic Apple perfection. M$ borrowed a lot from Newton - the combined menu/toolbars on bottom, natural HWR, true multitasking, background apps, etc.

For an interesting Palm vs. PPC comparison: I had trouble getting GameBoy ROMs (on Liberty) to run properly. On my iPaq, it plays Super Nintendo games like a champ and they're even working on a Playstation emulator

[tvfollower]

Does the 2215 fit comfortably in your pocket? Currently I have a Palm m130, and I could never dare to fit that comfortably in my pocket without weighing it down...the damn thing is 0.9 inches wide!

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by tvfollower:
Does the 2215 fit comfortably in your pocket? Currently I have a Palm m130, and I could never dare to fit that comfortably in my pocket without weighing it down...the damn thing is 0.9 inches wide!

Yeah, I find it about the same dimensions as a Palm Tungsten|T. I also have a Brando leather case that was designed for it and it fits like a glove Don't forget a G2 screen protector from www.pdascreenprotectors.com, they're the ONLY kind worth having!

And, because I couldn't resist....

[tvfollower]

LOL! Nice pics!

[geekwagon]

I need that Apple PocketPC theme.

I like my 2215 too. The only thing I miss from my Tungsten is the vibrating alarm (I wear headphones all day and I have a hard time hearing audible alarms most of the time.)

I just wish that Entourage had real Exchange server support (not that crap they released today) and that Missing Sync had an Entourage conduit. Then it would be perfect. As it is, I just sync my address book to my PB and my calendar to the PC running Outlook. (Corporate network)

BTW, I have found that my iSync setup works a lot better with a PPC than a Palm. I get a lot less duplicate entries after syncs than I did with my Tungsten. I think that Activesync on the PPC is assigning a unique identifier to each entry so they don't get duplicated when a device makes a change and they don't quite match anymore. This used to be a huge problem for me as I sync:
1. Powerbook
2. .Mac
3. Nokia 3650
4. iPod
5. PocketPC

I have a very full iSync window.

BTW, SpyMac is about the most immature site you are likely to find so don't take an experience you had there to be the norm of all Mac webforums. I still go there to look at the pictures in the galleries sometimes though.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by geekwagon:

1. Powerbook
2. .Mac
3. Nokia 3650
4. iPod
5. PocketPC

Haha, exactly my setup. Yeah, vibrating alarm WOULD be nice but I make a habit of checking my appointments every morning anyway.

[Eug]

As yourself one question. "Why do you need the PocketPC?" I find that now that I carry around a laptop more and more, I need my PDA less and less. And for the times I do need my PDA, my old Visor Deluxe (Palm OS 3) serves me fine.

If you had ONLY the PDA, the extra functionality of a PocketPC might be beneficial, but as a PowerBook user I think the extra money is wasted. You'd be better off buying a Palm Zire 71 or something I'd think, or even just a Palm m125. Works fine and does the job.

But then again, I prefer Palm with Windows too over PocketPC with Windows. I don't think the more complex OS and higher cost of PocketPC is justified for the vast majority of people (particularly laptop users).

And if you want to play MP3s, just buy an iPod. BTW, you can display your address book on an iPod so if that's all you need, you can forego the PDA completely.

Think of the FUNCTIONALITY you need, and then decide exactly what hardware is necessary. Don't fall into the trap of buying an uber-expensive PDA purely for the sake of having one, esp. if you're already going to carrying around a shiny new AluBook in your backpack.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Eug:
As yourself one question. "Why do you need the PocketPC?" I find that now that I carry around a laptop more and more, I need my PDA less and less. And for the times I do need my PDA, my old Visor Deluxe (Palm OS 3) serves me fine.

If you had ONLY the PDA, the extra functionality of a PocketPC might be beneficial, but as a PowerBook user I think the extra money is wasted. You'd be better off buying a Palm Zire 71 or something I'd think, or even just a Palm m125. Works fine and does the job.

But then again, I prefer Palm with Windows too over PocketPC with Windows. I don't think the more complex OS and higher cost of PocketPC is justified for the vast majority of people (particularly laptop users).

And if you want to play MP3s, just buy an iPod. BTW, you can display your address book on an iPod so if that's all you need, you can forego the PDA completely.

Think of the FUNCTIONALITY you need, and then decide exactly what hardware is necessary. Don't fall into the trap of buying an uber-expensive PDA purely for the sake of having one, esp. if you're already going to carrying around a shiny new AluBook in your backpack.

Expensive?

The Palm Tungsten | T2 - $399
iPaq 2215 - $399

Both have Bluetooth, except the 2215 has a physically larger screen, a CF slot for WiFi cards, more memory (storage space), a user-replaceable battery and MP3 playback actually worth using.

The Palm Zire 71 - $299
iPaq 1945 - $299

Complex? Hardly.

If you only need it as an address book -- sure my old Palm V is fine. I use it as a lot more, and I like bang for my buck.

As far as laptops -- I like lugging my 6 oz iPaq around with me a lot more than my 6 lb PowerBook G4. It's less likely to get stolen, I don't worry about damaging it as much, the battery lasts longer, and the screen is big enough and very bright and nice to type on with the attacheable folding keyboard. I still bring my PB with me when I need it, but I'd rather leave it nice and safe in my room.

P.S. If you want an expensive PDA, buy a Clie NR or NX series!

[tvfollower]

As maxintosh said, PocketPC are no longer more expensive than Palms. They are both in the same price range. It's not apples to oranges, anymore.

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by Eug:
As yourself one question. "Why do you need the PocketPC?" I find that now that I carry around a laptop more and more, I need my PDA less and less.

I hate lugging my laptop around, I use my pocket pc for contacts, calendar and excel also the adobe acrobat is far superior then the palm version (I heard there's a new release but I don't know how good/bad it is).

I'm debating to pony up the special intro price of $29.00 for the missing sync. Not a lot of money but I got burned with pocketmac which sells for $70, by the way stay away from that until they fix the bugs, too expensive and very buggy. I'm sure they're feeling the heat now that the Missing sync has been released.

I also find the Virtual PC comes in handy (if you already own it) I wouldn't recommend buying it just for the PPC.

btw I have a iPaq 1910 and its great little pda, I'm waiting to see the third iteration of the Tungsten to see if it matches up. I like the TT but for the price and features the 1910 was a better deal.

One last item, check out Brighthand they have some good forums for both the palm and ppc, plus there seems to be a good contigent of mac users there.

Good Luck
Mike

[bmhome1]

Also check out PocketPCThoughts.com for great PPC site and friendly Mac environment (they ran two sizable articles as soon as MissingSync came out). I personally prefer using VPC for Activesyncing my iPaq 3955 and especially for installing applications (over 75 installed on mine). The vast majority of PPC applications come as .exe installers, requiring access to a PC. Also ROM updates come out once or twice a year along with PPC2003 update system software, again requiring some form of a PC. Using VPC, I download all .exe installers with Safari, and drag and drop into VPC to launch them seamlessly.

I have 100% success using Activesync in both 98SE and XP Home on VPC6.0.1 running with 10.2.6. Many others have had very poor results even ever establishing USB recognition at all for their in cradle PPC. I have spent considerable time helping out others to have success (there's alot of specific steps to follow) over at Connectix Care forums, linking to posts describing everything in detail. Unfortunately, today Microsoft pulled the plug on the Care forums, so there is no longer a discussion site for VPC troubleshooting anymore. If there is enough interest, I might setup a web site to offer that help again.

Hvaing both a Palm and PPC, I much prefer the PPC, both for its feature set, but also for its versatile and logical OS (more logical to me than Palm OS). Mine functions as a high-end digital image viewer and file transfer device to PCMCIA hard drives, superior MP3 player, great quality MPEG and WMP videos and even full length feature film viewer, 120MB full encyclopedia, 15MB full dictionary, and many other PPC unique capabilities. To me the PPC is kind of like the "Mac" of PDA's.

[klinux]

Man, don't listen to the distractors that question your choice of PDA. The fact that Palm went from the "Zen of Palm" to being more PPC like says everything.

Annnyways, I am using The Missing Sync (TMS) from Mark/Space. It is not perfect but it works very well. The developers for that product is very attentive to the users' needs and comments.

ActiveSync (AS) on PC has its own set of problems on the PC side as well so it is not perfect on the PC side either. In fact, I know a number of PocketPC VIPs (Jason Dunn on PPCT) who is jealous on the things that TMS can do (sync with iTunes and iPhoto) that AS can't!

So... most Mac users may give you flack for using something made by MS. I am a cross-platformer and use the best tool for my needs which in my case is Mac (and sometimes Windows) and PocketPC and iPod.

[mbryda]

Depends on what you want to do. The PPC's have more "flash", but, seriously, how often do you watch movies on your PDA? And, do you really want to watch some really grainy stuff? Not me - those features are cool for all of 5 seconds. Then you realize you will never use them.

Typing on them is abysmal - you have to pack a keyboard/thumbboard or use the provided stuff. Even though I'v mastered Graffiti, it's still a PITA to deal with. I've had a PDA for years, and NEVER do much data entry on it - way too much of a PITA.

Another thing to remember when comparing PPC to Palm, PPC apps tend to be larger, so more RAM is necessary.

It all depends what you want to do...If you want the glitz and stuff, get a PPC. If you want a great little PDA for names, addresses, etc, get a Palm. (Needless to say I started with PPC and went to Palm and am very happy!)