[Eug Wanker]

Some Firewire camcorders seem to work, and some don't.

Can some of you post your success/failures?

I'm not going to buy an iSight, but I have been considering a miniDV camcorder for my next vacation. iChat compatibility would be consideration, although it'd be a secondary consideration. (Primary considerations would be image quality, build quality, price, etc.)

I'm not as interested in USB cams, since they're not officially supported, and because a USB cam is useless for my vacation.

[MaxPower2k3]

i just got a Canon Optura 10 and love it. very sturdy. has a manual focus ring (a must for minute focusing) and very good image quality. probably other stuff i'm forgetting too. i got it for $558 shipped from www.willoughbys.com (who got it to me in under 48 hours from the time i ordered)



oh, and it works with iChat (and iVisit)

[BigMark]

My Sony DCR TRV-6E kind of works, but I don't think a videocamera is suitable as most have a sleep function which will power off the camera if left on. Mine doesn't have an option to turn this off.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by BigMark:
My Sony DCR TRV-6E kind of works, but I don't think a videocamera is suitable as most have a sleep function which will power off the camera if left on. Mine doesn't have an option to turn this off.

the Optura i have only does that if there's a tape in it. if you take the tape out, it never turns itself off.

[Eug]

Originally posted by MaxPower2k3:
i just got a Canon Optura 10 and love it. very sturdy. has a manual focus ring (a must for minute focusing) and very good image quality. probably other stuff i'm forgetting too. i got it for $558 shipped from www.willoughbys.com (who got it to me in under 48 hours from the time i ordered)



oh, and it works with iChat (and iVisit)

iVisit???

The Optura 10 looks sweet, but how is the image stabilization? I was thinking I might want optical image stabilization, but it seems like overkill for my needs, and it's $$$ and big. (Optura Xi)

Something around the Optura 10/20 or Elura 50 range is probably more my speed.

BTW, it seems like the iSight is simply the lens system ripped out of a camcorder with a few doodads added. I wonder who makes the iSight innards.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by Eug:
iVisit???

The Optura 10 looks sweet, but how is the image stabilization? I was thinking I might want optical image stabilization, but it seems like overkill for my needs, and it's $$$ and big. (Optura Xi)

Something around the Optura 10/20 or Elura 50 range is probably more my speed.

BTW, it seems like the iSight is simply the lens system ripped out of a camcorder with a few doodads added. I wonder who makes the iSight innards.

iVisit is a good, but somewhat clunky videoconferencing app that works cross-platform... i've used it successfully with my PC-using friend on my powerbook.

i, too, wanted to get Optical Image Stabilization, but i settled for electronic, and, to be honest, i can't really tell whether it's on or off most of the time. I'm sure it does make a difference when zoomed all the way in, though. I haven't found my videos to be excessively shaky, and, when using a tripod, it becomes a non-issue anyway. I looked at the ZR series, which is obviously cheaper, (and the ZR70 has a very nice 22x lens) but all of the reviews praised the feature set but were very disappointed with the image quality. I have found that, indoors with normal lighting conditions (i.e. during the day with a couple of windows in the room) the video from my Optura 10 looks fine. at night, with a couple of medium-to-bright lights on, the video gets a little grainy, but still looks fine. with a couple more lights, it woudl look great.


the only differences between the Optura 10 and 20 are a bigger LCD, a bigger battery, and the Super Night Mode (which is just a white LED on the front of the camera)

[schalliol]

Originally posted by BigMark:
My Sony DCR TRV-6E kind of works, but I don't think a videocamera is suitable as most have a sleep function which will power off the camera if left on. Mine doesn't have an option to turn this off.

Take out the tape if it's like the other person's Canon or my Sony TRV-38. I plug in my 38 and it is recognized as at least an audio source, but my satellite uplink isn't nearly as quick as my downlink, so I haven't tried it.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I hear lots of good things about Canons so try one of those suckers.

[Eug Wanker]

The optical image stabilization on the Canon still cameras works VERY well, so that's why I was really looking at the same on the camcorders. However, I must admit I haven't tried their electronic image stabilization yet.

I was a little perturbed that the Optura 300 doesn't have it though, given the cost. Maybe it's not often needed, but in the old days electronic image stabilization (at least on different brands) kinda sucked.

Maybe I'll wait until Sept. I think that's when Canon's model line refresh is.

[schalliol]

I would make sure the cam you get allows full resoultion widescreen for at least future use. Most don't but some do.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by schalliol:
I would make sure the cam you get allows full resoultion widescreen for at least future use. Most don't but some do.

as far as i know only Sonys and much higher end models by other brands do that. I've also heard very good things about Canon's optical image stabilization, but for me it didn't warrant the extra price of either the Optura 200MC or the new Optura XI. Plus, i don't like the vertical-oriented design of the Optura 200/300 and the Eluras.

if you have an Apple store near you, go there. they have the largest selection of working camcorders i've seen anywhere. It's where i compared the Opturas and the ZRs and the JVCs.

[Eug Wanker]

No Apple Store in Toronto unfortunately.

[Gene Jockey]

My Canon ZR70MC works. Well, I haven't chatted with anyone, but it's recognised. And it does 16:9 with the supplied lens. Score!

--J

[schalliol]

Here's a link from a great site that has some info about the comparison between the Sony 38 vs. Canon 20:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sho...threadid=14001

I do love the full resolution widescreen display, that's going to be key for me as displays are going wide and 4:3's life is limited. Vs. the competition, I couldn't find anything that outperforms Sony's 38 for the money back in May.

[MaxPower2k3]

only problem: the Sony TRV-38 is at least $50 more than the Optura 20 and more than $100 more than the Optura 10, which has the same image quality as the 20. that's not taking into account the reputability of the stores those prices are from, i just took the cheapest price off of PriceGrabber.

[schalliol]

At least on my part, I am planning on buying one I'll be happy with for its usable life, so I was more concerned with the differences. Since it was our mutual 2nd anniversary gift it worked out

I'm sure you know this, but call your dealer of the camera to place the order or call after ordering and 1. verify the U.S. warranty 2. verify that it's brand new 3. verify the price (they sometimes say you can only have the one with accessories) 4. tell them you don't want any of their accessories (they often call you anyway to push) 5. look into the extended warranty you will be pushed and make sure if you want it it's a great deal and actually a good warranty.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by MaxPower2k3:
only problem: the Sony TRV-38 is at least $50 more than the Optura 20 and more than $100 more than the Optura 10, which has the same image quality as the 20. that's not taking into account the reputability of the stores those prices are from, i just took the cheapest price off of PriceGrabber.

Hmmm... The 38 does sound nice.

An extra US$50 doesn't bother me. It's the extra several hundred of the Optura 300 that bothers me.

And one thing I found very irritating about the ZR50 and below was the motor noise. If the Optura 20 was almost as loud then it's a dealbreaker.

I'll have to check them out.

EDIT:

What about the 33 and 39?

[superlarry]

the canon zr20 works great, and i'm sure its predecessors do as well (the zr60's out now).

[schalliol]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Hmmm... The 38 does sound nice.

Well, I'm very happy with it...It was great when I took my first video with it to take my wife's first grade class opera and make DVDs for all the parents who wanted them (most did). Since I had to be pretty close, I turned on the widescreen mode and it actually expands the width of the viewable area because it uses more of the CCD in the width (feature talked about above). Then I burned discs for people that switches the ratio to the 16:9 easily

What about the 33 and 39?

I'm not sure about the 33 at the moment, it's a bunch of things though, quite a few. Don't buy the 39, it basically just lets you surf the net on the camera, whooptie.

[-Q-]

My Sony TRV-20 worked fine when I used it. It was quickly replaced by an iSight tho'. It was just to bulky to keep on my limited desk space. But both video and audio worked fine...

[Arkham_c]

My Panasonic PVDV400 worked great in iMovie and the like, but it does not work so far in iChatAV. I suspect this is just a bug though, since it's on the "supported" list at Apple. That list is here:

http://www.apple.com/imovie/compatib...camcorder.html


It's for iMovie, but it should be the same system-wide when iChat gets out of beta.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by -Q-:
My Sony TRV-20 worked fine when I used it. It was quickly replaced by an iSight tho'. It was just to bulky to keep on my limited desk space. But both video and audio worked fine...

Yeah, I'm not buying it for iChat. I'm buying it for camcorder use, and just want it to be able to work with iChat, maybe once a month or something. I don't really have a big need for an iSight.

[Eug]

Can I assume if it works with iChatAV that it will work with Final Cut Express and iMovie? Maybe I shouldn't assume...

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should get an ultra-portable. Something like a Canon Elura 50 or Optura 200MC or something.

[CIA]

Panasonic AG-DVX100 Works fine here....

[Eug Wanker]

So it seems the Optura 20 might be my best bet. I hate the Optura 300 and Elura 50 ergonomics.

I don't like the touch LCD screen of the Sonys although the night mode with infrared is interesting.

[SOLIDAge]

Canon MZR60 works.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by schalliol:
Take out the tape if it's like the other person's Canon or my Sony TRV-38. I plug in my 38 and it is recognized as at least an audio source, but my satellite uplink isn't nearly as quick as my downlink, so I haven't tried it.

So you haven't tried the video part yet of iChat AV?

I have narrowed it down to the 38 or the Optura 20. The 38 has a better night mode but I don't really like the on-screen controls so much. The Optura 20 has better stills and much nicer controls, but a mediocre night mode.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
So it seems the Optura 20 might be my best bet. I hate the Optura 300 and Elura 50 ergonomics.

I don't like the touch LCD screen of the Sonys although the night mode with infrared is interesting.

Get a Sony DCR TRV38 or TRV33. My dad got the Optura 20 and its low-light capability is pathetic compared to the Sony. Considering how often most people shoot indoors in regular or low lighting, this is important. The Sony kicks Canon's ass in this regard.

I thought I would like the Canon controls better, but I found using the touch screen on the Sony to be faster, easier, and less straining than the button/dial combo on the Optura. The only thing I like about the Optura 20 is that it has a greater optical zoom than the Sony. Motor noise isn't too noticeable on either camcorder.

I love Canon cameras (I have an Elan IIe and a Digital Elph), but in the case, the Sony is the better camcorder.

[Spliff]

Here's a review of the Optura 20:

http://www.dvspot.com/reviews/canon/...ew/index.shtml

Optura 10:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

Does anyone know if the Sony's work with iMovie or FCP4? I know the Canon does.

Reviews of the Sony:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

[schalliol]

The reviews I have seen comparing the 38 and the Opt20 show the 38 as being superior (both should work with FCP), with good quality in lower light levels and full resolution 16:9.

Originally posted by Spliff:
Here's a review of the Optura 20:

http://www.dvspot.com/reviews/canon/...ew/index.shtml

Optura 10:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

Does anyone know if the Sony's work with iMovie or FCP4? I know the Canon does.

Reviews of the Sony:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

BTW, all MiniDV cams should work fine in these programs. To answer your question specifically, I have used the 38 in iMovie, FCE & FCP.

[MickS]

I use a Sony PC8E with iMovie/FCP/iChat AV.

When looking for video cameras one thing that's often overlooked is sound. When I was looking to replace the Sony PC100E I lost (don't ask) I considered the Canon cameras available at the time. The review of them all mentioned sub-par audio performance (motor/zoom noise was picked up) compared with the Sony, hence I went for the Sony. All of the cameras probably have sufficient video clarity, audio is at least as important if you plan to make decent quality home movies.

[Eug]

Sony DCR-TRV38 review (long)



I'm gonna check this one out soon.

[schalliol]

Awesome. One thing I want to make clear is what I said about the full resolution 16:9 that the Sony uses, and I'm pretty sure none of the other consumer cams have this. What the Sony does is change the rectangle of optics it uses from 4:3 to 16:9 (most cameras keep the same optics for both). What this means is that the camera actually uses a wider setup of the CCD and you'll actually be able to see a bit more on the sides than with 4:3 because it's not just using all the res of the width of the 4:3 setting. This is nice because if you find that you need a wider setting, say when you're close and can't zoom back anymore, you can get more out of the side, but most importantly you have a higher resolution 16:9 movie, which is going to be more important as people transition to HD.

[MilesWho]

Originally posted by Eug:
Sony DCR-TRV38 review (long)



I'm gonna check this one out soon.

I am also in the market for a camcorder with similar interests/price range, so this thread has been helpful. However, I am still not completely sold on any one camera. The more I research, the more indecisive I become!

I am looking for something that is very compact, with a large sensor (preferably greater than 1/4 inch), 16:9 mode, and web cam capability. Still pics aren't such a big deal, nor bluetooth.

The Optura 20 has a great form factor and a nice 17x zoom, but it is on the large side, has a small sensor, and there are concerns about noise. The Optura 300 has a nice size and sensor, but a lousy form factor and 10x optical zoom (and for that price, why no optical image stabilization?). The SONY PC 105 seems pretty nice (but it doesn't have 16:9), as is the 330, but that is getting pretty expensive.

Sorry for the rambling...I doubt anyone really cares, but while I am at it...I was thinking that many of these cams just seem so unelegant. Removable batteries and media storage. Enough buttons and screens to make your head spin. It takes a hefty learning curve to learn how to use these things. And with such nice software on the Mac platform, why do you need special effects built into the camcorder? Are there any camcorders with a built in hard drive? Is this even possible? It just seems like these could be done better. When AppleInsider eluded to a $749 mystery product, my heart skipped a beat...

[Eug]

Hmmm... Did a bit of looking around, the Canon Optura 200MC has had a MAJOR price drop in Canada. It's going for CAD$999 (US$765). That's pretty impressive, considering that it first came out at CAD$1699 last year. That's the same price as the Sony DCR-TRV33. The TRV38 is $150 more.

I didn't like the TRV38 by the way. It's a bit too bulky for my tastes. The TRV33 is very ergonomic, but I'm not a huge fan of the touch screen, and there is no manual focus ring. I do like the spot focus though, although I'd prefer the manual focus ring. The Optura 200MC isn't the most ergonomic in the world, but I still like it, and it does have a manual focus ring and optical image stabilizer. No shoe on the Optura though.

The one bonus though is that the Optura 200MC uses the same batteries as my Canon G2 still camera.

[schalliol]

Originally posted by Eug:
Hmmm... Did a bit of looking around, the Canon Optura 200MC has had a MAJOR price drop in Canada. It's going for CAD$999 (US$765). That's pretty impressive, considering that it first came out at CAD$1699 last year. That's the same price as the Sony DCR-TRV33. The TRV38 is $150 more.

I didn't like the TRV38 by the way. It's a bit too bulky for my tastes. The TRV33 is very ergonomic, but I'm not a huge fan of the touch screen, and there is no manual focus ring. I do like the spot focus though, although I'd prefer the manual focus ring. The Optura 200MC isn't the most ergonomic in the world, but I still like it, and it does have a manual focus ring and optical image stabilizer. No shoe on the Optura though.

The one bonus though is that the Optura 200MC uses the same batteries as my Canon G2 still camera.

I don't know what they run in Canada, but the 38 ran me $735 in April. The 38 is going to have more functionality at a lightly larger size, just gotta figure out what you want for the form factor.

[Eug]

I don't know what they run in Canada, but the 38 ran me $735 in April. The 38 is going to have more functionality at a lightly larger size, just gotta figure out what you want for the form factor.

Yeah, the 38 is nice, but I just wish it were as small as the 33. The green zombie night mode looks odd, but at least it's functional and better than the Canon Optura 200MC night modes. OTOH, although I haven't seen first hand it really compares, but everyone seems to rave about the optical image stabilization on the 200MC.

I can get the 33 a little cheaper if I go to those ultra-cheapo run down stores, but they always worry me. The 38 is $1130, (US$865) or $1100 if I go to the uber-cheap stores although the latter stores will throw in a couple of tapes. I don't want to do mail order.

[Eug Wanker]

Thanks people. I got the Canon Optura 200MC (discontinued). Works fine with iChat and iMovie.

http://www.canondv.com/optura200mc/index.html
http://www.macworld.com/2002/11/reviews/dvcamcorders/
http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/17743.html