[waffffffle]

It seems pretty clear that Apple has no intention of rolling out a PDA any time soon. Considering Steve Jobs himself has publicly stated that the PDA market is "saturated" and PalmOS companies are doing very poorly. However I personally can't stand any of the current PDAs on the market. They are all terrible. I hate my m100 but the newer ones aren't any better. The PocketPC based PDAs are much more powerful but the interface is just as poor. Apple really needs to turn the PDA world upside down with a radical new product that is much easier to use.

This is how I see the situation: Apple has the ability to create the most advanced PDA in the world both in terms of technology and usability. Yet they are afraid to invest time and money into creating this product since they believe that their user base for such a product is quite small. I think that Apple's potential user-base for such a product is high, and this is why.

The iPod has been a huge success for both Mac and Windows users. I believe that the success of the iPod lies more with its interface and less on its capacity or size. I think that once a person uses an iPod for the first time they are so impressed by the slick interface that they immediately want one.

I think that if Apple applied the same ideas to a PDA they could have a real winner. However there are a few barriers to universal adoption:

1. This PDA must work with all popular calendar and addressbook/email software. No one is going to buy this thing if it only works with iCal and Address Book in OS X. Apple should partner with the new PalmSource PalmOS company (or whatever its called) to make the Apple PDA compatible with Palm Desktop for both Mac and Windows. Does this mean the PDA needs to be a PalmOS PDA? Absolutely not! I think Apple could definitely abstract the software either on the PDA itself or in the conduit software to make it compatible with Palm Desktop software. It of course wouldn't be able to run Palm OS executables but it could definitely sync with the calendars, to-do list and address book. It also needs to work with Outlook on the PC. That would definitely be harder for Apple to do but I think it is one of the major things Apple would need to do in order for this PDA to be successful.

2. It must allow for seemless transition between Macs and PCs. Many Mac users have PCs at work or PCs in their homes and it would be essential for these users to be able to keep their information in sync.

3. It must present a distinct advantage over current PDAs in the market. When the iPod was released it had by far the largest capacity of its size. It also had the fastest transfer rates thanks to FireWire. This is where Apple's R&D is necessary to come up with something that us average users can't.

Now that I've written this I'm not sure where I'm going with it. I just want to reiterate that all PDAs out there are terrible. None of them work as intuitively as a Mac and none of them work well enough with a Mac. None of them understand handwriting as well as inkwell and they are all slow and clunky to use. Here's hoping that Apple will solve all of this with their own PDA someday soon.

[The Placid Casual]

Good points, but the problem I see at the moment which is holding things back, is that there are just too many gadgets out there, and too many competing players.

People want fewer but more compact devices, not more... This in part explains the success of the combined devices like the current Camera+Cellphones. When G3 becomes more popular this will only hasten things on towards a cell phone 'dominated' market.

As smaller technology emerges and things get cheaper, I think that the cell phone will merge all the current technologies and be the dominant force in the market, much to the downfall of all other devices...

At the moment I could carry:

iPod,
Cellphone,
Digital Camera,
PDA,

If you have a combined phone and camera you have cut things down, but conceivably, a year or 2 down the line, you could combine all 4 devices in to a package the size of a current phone or iPod...

This market will be dominated by Sony-Ericsson, Nokia and Motorola... Years of experience and customer confidence. It is just not a market Apple can afford to enter, or afford to fail in... Most of the phone companies make money from the contracts for calls and services and make a loss on handsets. I suspect it is not viable at all for Apple.

IMHO, people want convenience, and carrying bags of peripherals is just not ideal in terms of functionality and security...

I hate to say it, but i think the golden days of the PDA are gone forever.

Peace,

MArc

[andretan]

2001, early 2002:
In: PDAs
Out: harddisk-based MP3 players

late 2002, 2003:
In: MP3 players
Out: PDAs

How ironic. :/

However, I still wish Apple would make a PDA that really works.

I've been using a Palm PDA over the past couple of years and they do not work out that well for me. I've sold them off and is left without a PDA. I'm back to using pen and paper.

If I had a choice, I'd want a PDA with a fast web browser, music player, camera, WiFi and Bluetooth, and of course, I'd like to take my Address Book and if possible, Mail, with me

[maxintosh]

Part of the problem is the expectations we put upon PDAs. I agree that combining a PDA, cell phone, MP3 player, and digital camera into an all-in-one device that really works is a fantastic idea. In fact, I spent an entire semester trying to plot out a design that would actually work.

I flirted with Pocket PC -- it was shiny and flashy, and it had lots of bells and whistles. In the end though, it was classic Microsoft. Buggy, unreliable (alarms often would never sound--neither HP nor Microsoft would accept responsibility for the problem), and bloated. I'm back to Palm because Palms really do make great organizers. I like my Tungsten|T2... I don't love it, but it does make a great organizer and e-mail client via my 3650. It's a sleek, Apple-like little device. Its multimedia functions are useless, but the alarms sound dutifully, it works well with a Mac, and it helps me stay organized.

The current crop of PDA phones are either too clunky (T-Mobile XDA), too underpowered (Hiptop) or too freaking expensive (P800). The Treo 600 looks like a step in the right direction, but it makes a terrible multimedia device.

I think Apple could very well jump into the market and revolutionize it. They did it with MP3 players, and iPods are strategic genius for Apple. The next sleek Apple PDA phone with mass storage, Cocoa lite capabilities, and a uber-intuitive interface with Windows syncing out of the box could really make something.

Give it a few years....

[kennedy]

Yep, the boundaries have gotten all blurry. And that is an opportunity for someone to step up with a design that makes it all clear... that truly matches the possibilities with people's real needs. But it is similarly a huge opportunity for products to fail dramatically.

If, and only if, Steve/Apple gains clarity on what the right solution is, should they make that dangerous leap into those waters.

I think the coming Treo 600 may be a step closer for *my* needs... merging effectively the two devices I try to always have on hand (my phone and my Palm). And when technology allows us to stick 5GB in a device the size of the Treo 600, iPod will naturally merge with that as well. The interesting questions are:

1) When will technology allow that?
2) Is starting with an iPod a better position to get there? Or starting with a cell phone?

The next decade is definitely going to be interesting!

[-Q-]

I'm hoping the Treo 600 will allow me to carry a PDA again. As mentioned above, I want fewer gadgets to carry, not more.

And I don't ever see Apple releasing a PDA for two reasons:

Steve hates 'em (and prefers the hybrid PDA/Cell phone idea from the interviews I've read)

And until Apple's marketshare grows, a Windows-user will never believe an Apple-branded PDA, running some version of the Mac OS, will sync effortlessly with a Windows machine. Until that time, the market is too small. And definitely oversaturated.

[Paco500]

Originally posted by -Q-:
I'm hoping the Treo 600 will allow me to carry a PDA again. As mentioned above, I want fewer gadgets to carry, not more.

And I don't ever see Apple releasing a PDA for two reasons:

Steve hates 'em (and prefers the hybrid PDA/Cell phone idea from the interviews I've read)

And until Apple's marketshare grows, a Windows-user will never believe an Apple-branded PDA, running some version of the Mac OS, will sync effortlessly with a Windows machine. Until that time, the market is too small. And definitely oversaturated.

While I share your position that Apple will not release a PDA or a PDA/Cell combo any time soon, I disagree with your second statement.

Most windows folks I know think Macs work better than Windows. They think Apple makes better products than the probably actually do. Most are very eager to give Apple a go but don't switch platforms for cost/inertia/etc. Most of the iPod owners I know use Windows. So the public at large has the perception that: Apple stuff is good and Apple makes stuff that works with windows. I think if the design, functionality and price were right, the world at larger would have no issue snapping it up. Unfortunately, Apple usually has a hard time getting all three of those requirements in one product.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by -Q-:
And until Apple's marketshare grows, a Windows-user will never believe an Apple-branded PDA, running some version of the Mac OS, will sync effortlessly with a Windows machine.

I respectfully disagree with that -- look at the iPod! Windows users can't get enough of 'em.

The market is oversaturated, but it also royally stinks right now. Someone needs to come along and kick some life into the PDA market!

[-Q-]

Originally posted by Paco500:
Most windows folks I know think Macs work better than Windows. They think Apple makes better products than the probably actually do. Most are very eager to give Apple a go but don't switch platforms for cost/inertia/etc. Most of the iPod owners I know use Windows. So the public at large has the perception that: Apple stuff is good and Apple makes stuff that works with windows.

I disagree with your conclusion. As most of the windows people I know fall into two crowds: "Mac suck" or " Apple is still in business?" Your anecdotal evidence just doesn't change the fact that windows people won't be convinced that an Apple PDA will work with XP. I just don't thing the masses are that smart. That's why windows has such a large marketshare.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by maxintosh:
I respectfully disagree with that -- look at the iPod! Windows users can't get enough of 'em.

Two things that make the comparison not quite right: the iPod is a music player, plain and simple (yes, it does other things, but 95% of why a person would buy it is for the music features). It has a simple function and purpose; it's much easier to convince someone that a one-function device will work than a multi-function PDA. And currently, the iPod is a niche product. Apple has only sold about 1M right? Palm sold almost that amount in Q2 of this year.

Two: the markets are completely different. It's one thing to convince a music lover that the iPod is the best thing going; it's another matter entirely to convince an executive, or an IT department of a company, that an Apple PDA will work on their corporate network with the corporate machines. Why buy Apple when you can buy a PocketPC that IT people 'understand'?

I'm not saying Apple couldn't do it. If any company could, it's them. But I think the hurdles to overcome for a PDA are far greater than the hurdles for a music player.

[suprz]

i got my visor late in the game and i agree the market is suffering due to the cellphones being able to access the web, take pictures, etc... i still use my visor and carry it everywhere, but unfortunately because of the lack of support for OSX (AVANTGO, ARE YOU LISTENING!!!) i am forced to boot into OS9 if i really want to use my visor for anything other than a calendar and address/phone book. so i find myself not bothering to boot into OS9 and sadly i dont use my visor to it's full potential anymore.