[Tiny-E]

Okay, I've been looking into getting a palm for school/work and I'm a big mac lover (switcher 2 years ago). However, it pains me to say this but it seems that pocket pc's are just so much better than the pda's that run palm OS.

I want to get a pda that has a large screen (pocket pcs use the whole screen while most palms have the permanent graffiti area), fast processor, expansion slots and a decent battery (I need it for medical purposes and don't have time to recharge the pda on the wards) and of course, sync with my powerbook.

I was looking into getting the palm T3 but the battery life is making me think twice. But many of my friends have pocket pcs, with 2 expansion slots, better batteries (and removable too) for the same, if not cheaper price. And the new Sony clies don't impress me at all (I don't need a camera). And now, palmone has stated that they are open to using pocket pc OS on their machines if it works.
I'm waiting for Palm to come out with something better than the T3 but I just don't know if they can up Pocket PCs at the moment.

Should I just bite the bullet and get the T3 with it's less than stellar (and non-removable) battery or go crazy and get a pocket pc?

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Tiny-E:
Okay, I've been looking into getting a palm for school/work and I'm a big mac lover (switcher 2 years ago). However, it pains me to say this but it seems that pocket pc's are just so much better than the pda's that run palm OS.

I want to get a pda that has a large screen (pocket pcs use the whole screen while most palms have the permanent graffiti area), fast processor, expansion slots and a decent battery (I need it for medical purposes and don't have time to recharge the pda on the wards) and of course, sync with my powerbook.

I was looking into getting the palm T3 but the battery life is making me think twice. But many of my friends have pocket pcs, with 2 expansion slots, better batteries (and removable too) for the same, if not cheaper price. And the new Sony clies don't impress me at all (I don't need a camera). And now, palmone has stated that they are open to using pocket pc OS on their machines if it works.
I'm waiting for Palm to come out with something better than the T3 but I just don't know if they can up Pocket PCs at the moment.

Should I just bite the bullet and get the T3 with it's less than stellar (and non-removable) battery or go crazy and get a pocket pc?

I always used to have palms. but my company got everyone HP iPaqs (very cool fingerprint recognition). I have to say the graphics are much better, obviously the Microsoft interoperability is better. Its damn fast, pushing 200 mhz and the large lithium battery gives me a week away from the cradle. the MS sync system is live, so i add an item into outlook and it appears instantly on the PDA, so I can grab it from the dock and I know its up to date.

The downsides are the software is more buggy, there is less of it and it costs much more.
Try and find free software for Pocket PC and you will notice there isn't any.

[goose]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
I always used to have palms. but my company got everyone HP iPaqs (very cool fingerprint recognition). I have to say the graphics are much better, obviously the Microsoft interoperability is better. Its damn fast, pushing 200 mhz and the large lithium battery gives me a week away from the cradle. the MS sync system is live, so i add an item into outlook and it appears instantly on the PDA, so I can grab it from the dock and I know its up to date.

The downsides are the software is more buggy, there is less of it and it costs much more.
Try and find free software for Pocket PC and you will notice there isn't any.

How well do PocketPC PDAs integrate/sync with a Mac? I know there are some third party softwares out there that'll do some sort of syncing, but just wondering from your experiences. I don't have a PocketPC, but was considering picking one up as the "feel" a little bit better than Palm.

[bmhome1]

I sync my iPaq using VPC running either Win2000, XP and 98SE just fine. Using VPC also provides full functionality with .exe application installers which the vast majority of PPC apps use. Also, some medical apps are PPC only, and will require some form of PC for loading data.

I also find my iPaq, loaded with over 100 applications (including MP3, audio recorder, video player) and 300MB data files on SD card, to be 100% stable, as good or better than my Palm m500 was. "Buggy" is certainly not a word I would ever associate with the Pocket PC platform. Its just not true.

Additionally, there ARE a huge number of freeware applications for the PPC format, as many easily as I found ever for my Palm. One just has to do the legwork finding them. I can post a few links for starters if desired.

[torifile]

Originally posted by bmhome1:
I sync my iPaq using VPC running either Win2000, XP and 98SE just fine. Using VPC also provides full functionality with .exe application installers which the vast majority of PPC apps use. Also, some medical apps are PPC only, and will require some form of PC for loading data.

I also find my iPaq, loaded with over 100 applications (including MP3, audio recorder, video player) and 300MB data files on SD card, to be 100% stable, as good or better than my Palm m500 was. "Buggy" is certainly not a word I would ever associate with the Pocket PC platform. Its just not true.

Additionally, there ARE a huge number of freeware applications for the PPC format, as many easily as I found ever for my Palm. One just has to do the legwork finding them. I can post a few links for starters if desired.

Your experience sounds very atypical for a PPC user. The WM2k3 platform is seriously buggy. Very very buggy. It's no where near as stable as the Palm OS. I had an iPAQ 2215 for about 5 months and in that time, I lost all my data twice. I recharged regularly and I *thought* I was backing up regularly. Turns out, a backup is only as good as the OS that it runs on. Think .dll hell is bad on a DESKTOP? Wait until you see it on a handheld.

Seriously, the PPC *looks* good but it's not. It's just not trustworhty enough for real work. Palms may be more boring, but at least you can trust them.

[Tiny-E]

Now with Palm OS 6/Cobalt not having mac compatible software, will there be any difference in buying a palm (that is, a theoretical new hardware with OS6) and a PPC? Will it still be easier to sync a palm under OS6 than trying to sync a PPC?

For people with PPCs, do you have to use VPC to sync, or is there any other way of doing it through OS X?

[goose]

Originally posted by bmhome1:
I sync my iPaq using VPC running either Win2000, XP and 98SE just fine. Using VPC also provides full functionality with .exe application installers which the vast majority of PPC apps use. Also, some medical apps are PPC only, and will require some form of PC for loading data.

[....]

So if you do all your syncing via VPC, is your data only available through VPC? If not, how do you get it to integrate into the non-VPC apps and such?

[Maflynn]

Any PPC data that you synced inside VPC is for the most part self contained. At least for the outlook data. Any files such as spreadsheets and word documents you can drag them out of VPC and onto your hard drive.

If you don't own VPC and only need it for a PPC syncing, I'd think twice, your paying quite a lot in that instance. There is the Missing Sync and/or PocketMac both seem ok but I found them to be somewhat buggy. Perhaps that's been rectified. One (I forget which) couldn't handle re-occuring appointments and the other placed code in text area of my contacts.

I had other stability issues with my iPaq 1910 - always having to reset it, so I gave up on it and got a palm. No ptoblems now, I'd recommend a T3, battery life is not what it could be but its an awesome pda in its own right.

Mike

[webb3201]

I have owned about 20 PDAs in the last four years and have found both of the major flavors (PPC and Palm) have strong points. I will say that I began as a PPC bigot until I really gave Palm OS machines a try.

Here was why I went to Palm:

higher screen resolutions- Clies (NX series, NR Series, the new TH55 all have higher resolution than Pocket PC machine (although Toshiba has a 640x480 machine)

Better Stability - I reset my iPAQ more often than I reset my Palms

Battery Life - my Palms have all beaten my PPCs. My T3 is the most PPC like and needs to be charged at the end of the day. The new Clie TH55 has amazing battery life.

Better integration with MS Office - this sounds weird, but using Dataviz Documents to Go is better at handling and presenting MS Office files than the PPC apps. Note, you do have to buy Docs To Go.

I recommend trying the Clies, as Sony has made some really great additions in the multimedia areas. I love the new TH55, which may be my favorite sense the Newton.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by torifile:
Your experience sounds very atypical for a PPC user. The WM2k3 platform is seriously buggy. Very very buggy. It's no where near as stable as the Palm OS. I had an iPAQ 2215 for about 5 months and in that time, I lost all my data twice. I recharged regularly and I *thought* I was backing up regularly. Turns out, a backup is only as good as the OS that it runs on. Think .dll hell is bad on a DESKTOP? Wait until you see it on a handheld.

Seriously, the PPC *looks* good but it's not. It's just not trustworhty enough for real work. Palms may be more boring, but at least you can trust them.

I also had an HP iPaq 2215 and I can say the same thing. Windows Mobile 2003 is extraordinarily unstable. It crashes a lot, alarms don't always sound, and applications *still* don't close when you click the (X) button (they minimize instead, taking up lots of heap RAM). You have to buy a lot of extra software to get the platform to perform smoothly, which is ridiculous. There were some very cool things about that machine (good video player, SNES emulator) but in the end it was such a pain in the ass to work with on a daily basis that I gave up. Plus, so many PPC apps come in .EXE files that you ought to be prepared to start up Virtual PC... a lot.

BTW, most Palms on the market, even the cheapo-Tungsten E (which I have) comes with Docs To Go. I like the Tungsten E all right, but the case is way too delicate and scratch-prone. I'd say if I were in the market today, to go with a Clie TJ37 (WiFi), TH55 (WiFi and widescreen: my favorite) or Tungsten|T3 (Bluetooth). I'd be stoked to have WiFi on my Palm, because I find bluetooth to be pretty unreliable. Missing Sync for Clie apparantely works very well.

[Cadaver]

I have an iPaq h4150, and so far I've been very happy. Built-in WiFi, bluetooth, gorgeous 3.5" 16-bit screen and an SD card slot (currently holding a 256MB storage card). Very light and thin (thinner w/ bigger screen than my old Sony Clie PEG-T665).

The machine is fast and far more stable than the Toshiba e755 that it replaced (the e755 would lock up daily, the iPaq so far rarely needs resetting).

I used to use The Missing Sync for PocketPC to sync iCal/Address Book/iTunes/iPhoto and to mount the PPC (and any memory cards in it) on the desktop. Worked just fine. I've since switched to PocketMac 3 when I got the iPaq h4150. For me at least, PocketMac seems to work better with syncing over bluetooth than Missing Sync did.

PocketMac also supports Entourage, not just the Apple apps. Plus, PocketMac supports PPC application installation via .exe files or .cab files. Installers don't always work from an .exe file, but The Missing Sync actually has no such support at all - so something is better than nothing.

I have a program for my PPC called Pocket Informant 5. Its a replacement for the built-in calendar/contacts/tasks list and is a far better program than anything I've found so far on the Palm OS. Multiple colors, multiple configurable layouts, and lots of features. And - here's the best part - the company that publishes Pocket Informant has a specific MacOS X-based installer (for use with PocketMac)! Are these people hip or what? The app itself runs of the standard built-in cal/contact/task database, so no sync issues with the Mac.

Plus, the PPC has a "real" file system (nested folders, etc) for organizing documents in main memory or on the storage cards. I like this better than the quasi-flat file system on the PalmOS (at least as of Palm OS 4.x). The drawback here is the PPC also has a Windows 95-like directory structure, so editing/reorganizing names of program shortcuts, adding apps to the startup que, etc., behaves much like any other Windows machine.

I have no trouble with Word or Excel files on the PPC - basically take files off my Macs and drop them on the mounted PPC. They open right up. No translation required like with Documents To Go on the Palm.

Viewing PowerPoint files does require a conversion process on a real PC or in Virtual PC, but this is no different than it would be on the PalmOS (since the Mac version of Documents To Go doesn't support PowerPoint either).

One year ago I would have said "get a Palm."
Now, however, I think that either will serve you well. Choose the PDA based on the apps you want to run, since Mac support on either is about the same.

[bmhome1]

To say WM2002/2003 is "very very buggy," because alarms don't always work right (freeware apps to take care of that flaw) and the close button doesn't shut down apps (dozens of freeware apps to change that) is like saying OSX is buggy because people get kernel panics.

In the 15 months I've owned my iPaq 3955 I have never had one hard reset (all data lost) and maybe 30 soft resets (restart system) needed. The entire OS and apps (18MB) backs up in about three minutes to a SD card and restores just as fast, faster than any Palm restore. Any data loss is the fault of the user not bothering to back up regularly just like any other platform.

The real bug is Activesync, but as in most applications there are some who seem to never have success and yet there are others who never have issues.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by bmhome1:
To say WM2002/2003 is "very very buggy," because alarms don't always work right (freeware apps to take care of that flaw) and the close button doesn't shut down apps (dozens of freeware apps to change that) is like saying OSX is buggy because people get kernel panics.

I don't think so, these have been long-running complaints, and something as fundamental as alarms (on a PDA) should really be taken care of by the manufacturer. The programs I tried to fix the problem didn't work reliably. They helped, but didn't eradicate, the problem. My Palm has NEVER missed an alarm.

Using a Pocket PC/Palm for multimedia will be far more compelling when they start embedding hard drives in the devices; solid-state memory is just WAY too expensive for any reasonable size.

[bmhome1]

Neither the Pocket PC or Palm format is without their own individual quirks and shortcomings. But to characterize the Pocket PC platform as if it was as unreliable and crash-prone as Win95 or 98SE simply isn't true. The PPC format is one of MS' more stable platforms, more to be likened to 2000 or XP, not perfect but vastly more stable than prior OS. One cannot judge OSX's stability based on OS9's crash habits.

Visit Brighthand.com PPC forums or PocketPCThoughts.com forums and typical help requests are HOW to do something, not cries for help fixing something. The Brighthand Palm forums have far more of that.

Maybe the average PPC user is more the power-user type, certainly the devices are capable of enormously more functions compared to Palms. If they are so unstable, nothing should work reliably, correct?

Yet my iPaq cranks along as my CF MP3 player, digital photo download and transfer mule (over 10GB of downloads this summer), digital image viewer (the full 3MB original at 100%, not some 20k clipping), travel alarm clock (shareware: yes its reliable and plays MP3 wakeups and snooze), even full screen MPEG's at 28fps to impress the curious. All works, always. Very Mac-like.

BTW, Leaf digital, maker of +$10,000 pro digital large-format capture backs chose...the iPaq (unmodified) as their choice for the digital image preview/playback display. It comes part of the package. There would be some very pissed off owners with poor results if anyone.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by bmhome1:
To say WM2002/2003 is "very very buggy," because alarms don't always work right (freeware apps to take care of that flaw)

Since one of my main needs for a PDA is to remind me of appointmnents and such, the alarm functionality is pretty much a requirement. I can't imagine that a basic requirement/function of a PDA is "buggy" in WM'02/03 is pretty poor.

In the 15 months I've owned my iPaq 3955 I have never had one hard reset (all data lost) and maybe 30 soft resets (restart system) needed.

That's funny - how can people accept resets as normal with any device. When was the last time your VCR reset itself? Or your Tivo? Yet 2 resets a month is normal? Man, MS sure has people conditioned to accept this.

I've had my TungstenT for over a year now and only ever had to reset it once for anything. It, like my Mac just keeps on working and working, whether it's playing MP3's/Audible or a game or whatever. It just keeps on running and running without resets.

[goose]

Originally posted by mbryda:
[.....]

Or your Tivo? Yet 2 resets a month is normal? Man, MS sure has people conditioned to accept this.

[....]

My TiVo only reboots after a software upgrade. Besides that, it's all good.

[nobitacu]

I'm using Tungsten T3 and of course, Palm. So far I like it a lot as I use it everyday for class and other stuff. Palm OS is just so much faster than Pocket PC.

Ming

[new newton]

I haven't used PPC, so I have no real comments with regards to it. I miss my Newton, and the day somebody packages that OS in modern hardware I'll be placing an order. In the meantime, I'll use a Palm. If I've got to use a non-Newton PDA, I want something fast and lean. That's Palm. I've got a T3 now. Battery life is alright, but very dependent upon how you use it. With the brightness up and Bluetooth on, it's not so good. Turn BT on when you need it, and keep the screen down and the battery life is fine. FWIW, the screen is great and I keep the brightness turned all the way down without even noticing it. My only real qualm with my Palm is the build quality. It's not bad, but I was expecting better.

I do use an HP PPC 1900 case with it. It's absolutely ideal if you want to keep a T3 on your belt.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by goose:
My TiVo only reboots after a software upgrade. Besides that, it's all good.

Mine too. And I can't remember the last time it did that.... I think it was to enable dual tuners (I have a DirecTivo)...