[Scooterboy]

Hi everyone! I'm shopping for really good sound for my PowerBook, for listening to iTunes and for games or DVD in 5.1
I'm on a budget and looking at multimedia systems like the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra. Does anyone here own this system? It's currently on backorder but they look like they might be decent sounding powered speakers. Or are there any good receiver + speaker systems (5.1, 6.1, or 7.1) close to the Ultra's price of $399?

I'm using the M-Audio Sonica Theatre USB sound card. It has 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 digital sound out via a coaxial digital out port and also sepearate analogue outs.

[davidflas]

I've heard good things about this system, but have not heard it for myself. I noticed that Newegg has the system in stock. I don't know if you're in the US or Europe though... Hope that helps..

[Scooterboy]

Thanks! I'm in the US now. Is New Egg reputable? I might get these. Has anyone here heard them yet?

[maxx9photo]

I'm using Klipsch 2.1 with my PB and it's been a joy using this power speaker and your choice should be more awesome since it's 5 speakers system.

[Scooterboy]

How about the Logitech z680? It's much less money....

[davidflas]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
Thanks! I'm in the US now. Is New Egg reputable? I might get these. Has anyone here heard them yet?

I've ordered a lot of items from Newegg, they are great!! As I said I haven't heard this system, but Klipsch has a great reputation, I would buy these without thinking twice... Except that I already have a much more expensive system....

[davidflas]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
How about the Logitech z680? It's much less money....

I would go with the Klipsch. My main reason is that Klipsch is an audio company and Logitech is a computer peripheral company. My philosophy is that you can't overspend on audio...

[SSharon]

I have heard great things about klipsch and a friend has the 2.1's but I have also played with the 5.1's. Also newegg.com is great, I got out of my way to get things from them since their customer support has been so nice to me.

[maxx9photo]

Don't forget to add monster cable for it as it will boost the performance period!

[Meritocracy]

Originally posted by maxx9photo:
Don't forget to add monster cable for it as it will boost the performance period!

An absurd comment. Anyone who is truly into audio will be the first to tell you that monster cables are the equivalent to Bose. Better performance through marketing....

[Scooterboy]

I'd like to output the sound to the speaker system via the coaxial port on the Sonica Theatre, however there are separate mini plug jacks for (1)surround/center L/R, (2)center/subwoofer, (3)surround L/R, and (4)front L/R.

I've been reading and comparing the Logitech Z-5500 with the Klipsch 5.1 Ultra.

I really don't know much about surround sound so please forgive me if my questions are stupid. Will I be able to get 5.1 sound through either of these systems? I'm asking because the z-5500 is THX certified and features hardware decoding of the surround signal, which comes in digitally via coaxial from the Sonica Theater. All these gimmicks are somewhat confusing. Do I need hardware decoding from the speaker system? On the other hand, it looks like hooking up the ProMedia 5.1 will be more difficult.

[Ruahrc]

I don't have the 5.1Ultras but have their predecessors the Promedia 5.1's. My speakers are fantastic and I hear the Ultras are a slight to noticeable improvement in all areas. So I would say they're great! Better than the Logitech speakers too IMHO for the logitech's tend to be too bass-heavy and the sub is too boomy. The Klipsch subs have been very highly regarded as being tight and more musical than the logitechs, although the logitechs have a slight volume/power advantage.

Anyways about the 5.1, since you have that M-audio Sonica then any 5.1 system you buy should work. Note, however, that just because you have 5.1 speakers will not mean you will get 5.1 sound all the time. If you are just playing mp3s or CD's (or any stereo sound source) then you will only get 2-channel sound (i.e. the center and the surround speakers will be silent). If you are playing 5.1 material (such as a DVD) then you will get 5.1 sound provided you are decoding it (either via the DVD software/Sonica drivers or a hardware decoder). Now there's a catch- if you have a hardware decoder (some software may do this too but I don't know how the mac situation is being a recent switcher) you can use Prologic to upmix your stereo sources into "surround" sound. Basically Prologic filters standard 2-channel (stereo) audio and directs certain frequencies to certain speakers, so that it seems like there is surround sound, even though it is just 2-channel source sound. Some sound is even encoded in Dolby Prologic, meaning that it takes advantage of this "upmixing" to provide a better surround sound than standard stereo, if you have the decoder.

Speaking of decoders. Klipsch used to make (I think they just recently stopped selling it) a hardware decoder that was made to go with their Promedias. I have this too and it is great. It will accept coax or optical digital inputs, as well as 3 RCA stereo analog inputs. It will do decoding of Dolby Digital and DTS, and will also do ProLogic 1 upmixing. Like I said though I don't think you can get it from Klipsch anymore, but other sources might have it (try eBay, as I never found an online vendor besides Klipsch who sold it, it was called the DD-5.1). There is a different decoder though from Creative, which looked very impressive in specs (7.1 decoding, DD-EX, DTS96, Prologic 2 upmixing, 24-bit DACs, 2 headphone ports, etc). I think it is around $100-$150. I would recommend getting a hardware decoder though because it is more flexible that way (you can hook up multiple sources to your speakers and also have hardware decoding which is faster and usually sounds better). I have had an xbox, ps2, gamecube, and laptop plugged into my decoder all at once, and since I could use my speakers for so many devices I felt I got a better value out of them because I used them more.

And lastly about Newegg, I ordered my 5.1's from them (2 years ago now) and yes they are an extremely reliable online vendor. In fact, one could easily argue that they are the best online vendor around due to their combination of good service, wide selection, and low prices. I would not have any hesitation ordering from them. When I ordered my Klipsch from them I even got free shipping! The Klipsch box is ~40-50lbs so shipping would have been pretty expensive! I don't know if they still do a lot of free shipping but still a great vendor.

Anyhow to summarize- if you want a good quality set of speakers IMHO the Promedia 5.1Ultras are the best of the ones you have looked at. The Z680's are respectable (also cheaper plus it includes a decoder) but do not bother with the 5500's if you want top quality.
If you want digital output from your sonica then you will need to buy a decoder for your Klipsch. As far as I know, the Creative one is the only one targeted for this application (decoder for computer speakers). Otherwise you could just hook it up analog (via the 3 miniplug jacks) straight from your Sonica and have it do the decoding.
To get 5.1 audio you will need to ensure that your source(s) are 5.1, and that your applications support it. Like I said I am new to macs so I don't know many details but I don't know if the Apple DVD player can do decoding, or if is able to do SPDIF passthrough to the Sonica or to an external decoder. Again if a lot of your sources are 2-channel, then a hardware decoder would be useful for it's Prologic 1 or 2 upmixing capabilities.
And finally- no don't get MonsterCable and yes do order from newegg .

Sorry I went on so long. Hope all of this helped!

Ruahrc

[Scooterboy]

Thank you for all the info, ruahrc! I've been reading the Sonica Theater specs and it says it "supports DTS output and Dolby Digital 5.1/EX (6.1 DVD) decoding". So it should do the decoding?

I'm running 10.3.5, so Apple DVD Player should pass through the surround information.

I'm 99% sold on the Klipsch 5.1's and may be ordering them soon.... I'll post a review when I get them.

[Scooterboy]

Well, I ordered the Klipsch 5.1 Ultra from Newegg today. Thanks to all who replied to this thread for your knowledgeable advice.

I'll post here when the speakers arrive with a review....

[Kevlar]

The Sonica Theatre does NOT do decoding, I believe it only does the pass through.

[Scooterboy]

You're right. I just read this on M-Audio's site. Damn. They aren't clear about this in the User Guide that ships with the unit. Bummer. Then the Creative Labs 7.1 or the Logitech z5500 would have been better, at least for DVD playback. Or I might have ordered a Theatre in a box system instead.

M-Audio suggests using VLC. Apparently it does the decoding in software.

[Kevlar]

I think VLC used to to but not anymore. Might want to check on that though.

[Scooterboy]

"12. Multiple sound-devices and multi-channel sound?
...- AC3 over SPDIF with M-Audio Sonica Theater does not work. This is most likely a driver bug which has been reported to M-Audio.
- Many problems might still exist. Multiple channel audio support is pretty new on Mac OS X and there are many bugs in the system software, the device drivers and probably in VLC media player as well.
- Someone with CoreAudio knowledge is very much invited to assist is in fixing all the bugs that linger in this area."

That's from VLC. So the only option really is to buy an external hardware decoder, or a system with one built in? This sucks. Are there any external USB or Firewire or Cardbus/PC Card solutions? Damn, now I think I might have to cancel my Klipsch order.

[Kevlar]

Would this work?

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...it-main-1.html

[Scooterboy]

No, that still needs an external DTS decoder (like a Home Theater system or or a speaker system with hardware decoding). The M-Audio products feature digital surround pass through as does Apple's DVD Player. But neither do the decoding in order to listen to true multi channel surround. WinDVD does software DTS decoding so the Klipsch 5.1 Ultra combined with the M-Audio Sonica and a laptop PC running WindowsXP would have real 5.1 surround sound. With the PowerBook or iBook, and Mac OS X and Apple DVD Player, combined with the M-Audio Sonica Theater and the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 system, we Mac users still need to purchase a hardware decoder in order to experience true 5.1 multichannel surround sound.

I cancelled my order for the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra. I really wanted to buy the Klipsch, but as they don't offer decoding of the digital surround signalled passed through to it from DVD Player 4.0 and the Sonica Theater, they won't do. I'd be better off spending my money on a powered speaker system that does feature on board decoding or buy a home theater system that does, or waiting for Apple to catch up to the PC world and offer a DVD player that features software DTS/ProLogic decoding like Window's DVD player.

[Kevlar]

Yea, I should have included in the post 'I wonder if this will do the pass-through that the Sonica Theatre won't'.

I use a Sonica Theatre & Logitech z-5300. No where near Prologic or Dolby Digital stuff but it works(produces sound) just fine for me.

[Scooterboy]

From DTS Online:

As with a home theatre setup, the best way to experience DTS on the PC is via a multi-channel speaker system: The choice is whether to decode DTS inside or outside your PC. And in order to experience 5.1-channel DTS software-based decoding on a PC, you must own a multi-channel soundcard. Currently, it is difficult to use a software solution on a laptop PC. In this case, connect the DTS-encoded bit stream from the laptop’s Digital Output to an external hardware-based decoder.)

DTS DVD motion picture soundtracks and multi-channel music can be played back from a PC in one of two ways:

1. Using a Hardware-based configuration, in which the DTS soundtrack/music is decoded on a multi-channel soundcard within the PC, and a digital output connected to an A/V receiver or computer speaker system equipped with an internal decoder._

2. Using Software-based configuration, in which the DTS soundtrack/music is_output via a software program or application running on the PC and connected to the analog inputs of a multi-channel or two-channel speaker system.

So it looks like Mac users have only the first option. I should have researched this better before I went shopping. So now I'm looking at a Creative Labs 7.1 solution or a home theater system.

I wonder if Tiger will feature a DVD Player with software DTS decoding?

[Ruahrc]

Now hold on a minute.. are you sure that the Sonica won't do decoding? I am looking at the Sonica's specs (http://209.132.209.147/products/en_u...r-focus-1.html) and I read the it will decode DD but only pass through DTS. How do you guys read it?

I guess the easiest solution would be to contact M-Audio and see what they say huh?

Still though, if you can swing it I'd still go for the klipsch + an external decoder. That creative one I mentioned I saw online for $115. If you cannot afford that then I might also recommend holding off on a set of speakers until you can. IMHO it's a real step up compared to the lower end speaker systems with decoders included (save the Z680's I guess, those would probably be ok)

Ruahrc

[Scooterboy]

The Creative Sound Blaster decoder's specs does't list Mac OS. Does this mean there are no drivers for OSX? I'd buy this if it works with 10.3. Besides Dolby EX decoding, it also supports EAX Advanced game effects, where the Sonica Theater does not (at least for Mac).

Is this the Creative Decoder? That should work but it's fugly. Here's a review I found. The decoder is $145, and that combined with $350 for the Klipsch comes up to $500. For that much money I could buy this.

[Scooterboy]

Lokking at this diagram I'd say it only does pass-through.

[Ruahrc]

Yeah that's the creative decoder I was talking about. Yeah it is kinda ugly but it has some really impressive specs. And although I'd need some reviews to really back it up, IMHO the Creative decoder + the Klipsch would give that Yamaha system a serious run for its money. (That creative decoder's feature list may even edge out that Yamaha decoder). I have heard not the greatest things about Theater-in-a-box systems, although those were mainly in the $200-$300 range. I don't know if it gets a lot better as the price goes up.

And looking at that diagram, I see that you can get surround speakers hooked up directly to the Sonica, leading me to think that decoding is done on the Sonica itself in that case? Again the only real solution is to contact M-audio I think, or find someone with the Sonica + a 5.1 system to try it out.

Ruahrc

[Scooterboy]

The Sonica does not do decoding. It depends on either the computer to do the decoding in software i.e. WinDVD, or it needs an external decoder (e.g. an AV receiver) that it can pass on the digital signal to via its coaxial port. We don't have a DVD player application as of now on the Mac that will do software DTS decoding, with the exception of VLC which used to work with the Sonica but doesn't at this time. But VLC is a Linux app ported to Mac OS X and is rather buggy as Apple has been very slow in gving them the Core Audio API's, according to the VLC people. I'm on shaky ground here as I've only started researching this issue, but it sounds like Apple hasn't licesened Dolby Digital and DTS technology from Dolby Labs and are loathe to do so. OS X has Core Audio, which can do multi channel sound, but for DVD playback, DTS and Dolby Digital are the de facto multi-channel standards, for which a license fee must be paid to Dolby Labs if Apple is going to implement a software DTS decoder into DVD Player. So it looks like this is a cost issue, but aren't the margins high enough on Macs for Apple to include this value added feature?

I think Apple really dropped the ball here, and it's one area where PC-land is far ahead of the Mac. There are more and better DVD player apps with better video and far better sound than what we Mac users can get out of DVD Player 4.0. It took Apple untiI the release of Panther to finally allow DVD Player to output encoded multi channel sound, but Windows users have DVD player apps that even do the the decoding in software and are supported by the Sonica Theater and other surround sound cards, and they've had these for years.

I bought into all this Digital Hub talk back then and I bought my first iBook, and now PowerBook, and really, I do expect the computer to replace the stereo, DVD player, TV/Monitor, multi-track music recorder, and yes, the Home Theater sound system. Hell, I don't even own any of those things anymore. I don't have the space for all that stuff. But, I have a Mac, a PowerBook no less, and really, it should be up to its role as the "hub in my digital life".

So back on topic, I'm going to re-order the Klipsch and Wait for Apple to release a DVD Player that will do the decoding (or for VLC to get better) and in the meantime buy a hardware DTS decoder for ~$150 additional, or buy a Logitech or other speaker system that features a built in DTS decoder. And I'll try to post a review of whatever I end up buying. I'm still open to advice about speakers, so if you want to try to sway me one way or another, please do so.

[Kevlar]

So just to recap, your going to order the Sonica Theatre and the Klipsch's?

[Scooterboy]

I already haave the Sonica Theater (I bought it for my iBook). I could take the easy route and buy the Logitech Z-5500 as it has built-in hardware DTS decoding, but most people seem to think that the Klipsch 5.1 Ultra are better, especially for music, and I'm leaning more toward that speaker system and its reputation. The Sonica Theater will do virtual surround, but not the real thing, so next I'll be shopping for an external DTS decoder.

[Edit] Update: I ordered the Klipsch 5.1 Ultra from the Klipsch.com today. They have a 6 monthly installment payment plan which made this purchase painless. I also phoned Klipsch and asked them to recommend a DD/DTS decoder and they recommend the Creative decoder.

[Scooterboy]

I want to thank everyone who posted replies to this thread. Your advice has been invaluable. I settled on the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra with a pair of speaker stands for the surround speakers. Klipsch customer service has been very helpful as well and advised me against buying a used Klipsch decoder as the Creative decoder better, and there will be a new and better Klipsch decoder in the coming months. They also told me that they've heard great things about the M-Audio Sonica Theater USB sound card that I have, and that I'll probably be happy using it with the ProMedia even without a decoder.

My speakers shipped this morning so I'll finally get to hear them firsthand. I've never owned a good set of computer speakers, my last set being an el cheapo stereo set, or my really nice Sony headphones.

Cheers, everyone!

[the_glassman]

Just wanted to bump this thread. It's a great read. Apple really needs to address the audio issues when Tiger is released. I'm looking at surround sound options as well. The Yamaha setup looks pretty nice. I would like a clean setup. With the Sonica Theater, then the creative decoder and then the speakers it would just add to the mess. Does the PCI Revolution 7.1 do any decoding? If not, what freaking good is it when the G5's already have digital optical out?

[webraider]

Originally posted by the_glassman:
. Does the PCI Revolution 7.1 do any decoding? If not, what freaking good is it when the G5's already have digital optical out?

First of all the Revolution PCI Cards do offer hardware decoding. Since OS X and the recent DVD player in OS X now you can pass the signal directly to these cards to decode and then you can use a pair of computer speakers that don't have a hardware decoder in them. As far as I know, until Apple comes out with a software decoder in it's DVD player etc... you can use a pair of computer speakers with built in decoder with the digital port on a G5 Mac so it's as you said.. It's six of one half a dozen of the other on a PCI equipped G5. The latter is the only option with a G5 imac.