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selowitch · 08:12 PM

I have 4-port Belkin USB 2.0 PCI card in my Power Mac G4 and I'm noting some bizarre results. If I plug my SanDisk card reader into it, ASP dutifully and correctly reports it as connecting to a High-Speed USB bus up to 480Mb/sec. So far so good. But when I plug in my HP LaserJet 1160, all I get is USB bus 12Mb/sec (i.e., USB 1.1).

What's going on here? Are there any utilities for checking/verifying USB connection speed? I'm running OS X 10.3.7, if that helps.

Cadaver · Dec 22, 2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by selowitch:
I have 4-port Belkin USB 2.0 PCI card in my Power Mac G4 and I'm noting some bizarre results. If I plug my SanDisk card reader into it, ASP dutifully and correctly reports it as connecting to a High-Speed USB bus up to 480Mb/sec. So far so good. But when I plug in my HP LaserJet 1160, all I get is USB bus 12Mb/sec (i.e., USB 1.1).

What's going on here? Are there any utilities for checking/verifying USB connection speed? I'm running OS X 10.3.7, if that helps.

Because your printer appears to be a USB 1.1 device. The specifications list a USB 2.0 compatible port, suggesting that it may actually only be running at USB 1.1 speeds.

selowitch · 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:
Because your printer appears to be a USB 1.1 device. The specifications list a USB 2.0 compatible port, suggesting that it may actually only be running at USB 1.1 speeds.

That strikes me as absurd and also kind of evil on HP’s part. After all, I can hardly be blamed for inferring from the ad copy that the printer is capable of USB 2.0 speed, right? Theirs is an awfully narrow interpretation of the word “compatible”!

Macola · Dec 23, 2004, 08:43 PM

Absurd, but perfectly normal marketing

selowitch · Dec 23, 2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Macola:
Absurd, but perfectly normal marketing

No, I prefer “fraudulent and deceptive” marketing.

tooki · Dec 24, 2004, 02:01 AM

Even if a device is listed as "USB 2", assume it only runs at 12Mbps unless it explicitly says "USB 2.0 High Speed" and carries the USB High Speed logo.

USB 2 "High Speed" = 480Mbps
USB 2 "Full Speed" = USB 1.1 "Full Speed" = 12Mbps
USB 2 "Low Speed" = USB 1.1 "Low Speed" = 1.5Mbps

The way the USB 2 marketing works, every USB device is USB 2 compatible, since a USB 2 computer will also accept that device. The words "USB 2" do not indicate high speed, only the phrase "USB 2 High Speed" does.

tooki

selowitch · 08:55 AM

Originally posted by tooki:
Even if a device is listed as "USB 2", assume it only runs at 12Mbps unless it explicitly says "USB 2.0 High Speed" and carries the USB High Speed logo.

USB 2 "High Speed" = 480Mbps
USB 2 "Full Speed" = USB 1.1 "Full Speed" = 12Mbps
USB 2 "Low Speed" = USB 1.1 "Low Speed" = 1.5Mbps

The way the USB 2 marketing works, every USB device is USB 2 compatible, since a USB 2 computer will also accept that device. The words "USB 2" do not indicate high speed, only the phrase "USB 2 High Speed" does.

tooki

Thanks for the clarification. However, this is hardly common knowledge and I still think it's at least very confusing and at most truly deceptive and sleazy.

Where this logic falls apart (and is vulnerable to legal challenge) is that there is no similar foolishness with regard to FireWire 400 and FireWire 800. If I device is listed as "FireWire 800 compatible," you can bet your sweet derriére that it is of the higher speed. Why should USB be entitled to bait and switch the consumer while FireWire products are expected to be honestly presented?

Yes, yes, I know that a FireWire 800 cable won't fit in a FireWire 400 port, nor vice versa. I don't think that gets them off the hook, though.

The good news is that my new printer is fabulous and I probably wouldn't have noticed or cared had I not ... um ... noticed and cared.

Well, I'm off to go be a bored Christmas Jew (Is that Kyle from South Park I hear singing in the background?). Merry Christmas, everybody!

tooki · Dec 24, 2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by selowitch:
Thanks for the clarification. However, this is hardly common knowledge and I still think it's at least very confusing and at most truly deceptive and sleazy.

I agree completely.

Originally posted by selowitch:
Where this logic falls apart (and is vulnerable to legal challenge) is that there is no similar foolishness with regard to FireWire 400 and FireWire 800. If I device is listed as "FireWire 800 compatible," you can bet your sweet derriére that it is of the higher speed. Why should USB be entitled to bait and switch the consumer while FireWire products are expected to be honestly presented?

Well, their logic is that it's not a "new" standard, but an "updated" one that adds a new mode. (Well, technically, that is exactly how it works.) But USB 2 encompasses everything USB 1.1 does, so it's impossible to have a USB 1.1 device that's not automatically USB 2. I agree, it's sleazy.

I think that it should have been more the way FireWire 800 is marketed: "FW400 speed" and FW800 speed"*. Unfortunately, most people incorrectly assume that's how USB 2 is... :-/

tooki

*Note that unlike any USB 2 device I've ever heard of, it is possible to make FW800-only devices that won't drop down to FW400. But they use a different connector, and the cabling is designed so that a FW400->FW800 cable will not work in those devices. We now have 3 FireWire connectors: the classic FW400 one, the FW800-only one (which I've never seen in person), and the "bilingual" FW800 connector, which is the one that allows FW400-FW800 cables.

selowitch · Dec 24, 2004, 11:48 AM

BTW, to part of my original question: Are there any good utilities (either for use via the Terminal or the OS X GUI) for monitoring/analyzing USB connections?