[ogun]

Most of the major printer vendors (HP, Epson, Canon) produce printer drivers for OS X which are inferior to those produced for Windows. In many cases, the OS X drivers are inferior to those produced for the same printer for OS 9. Commonly lacking features include edge-to-edge printing and the ability to share the printer over a network, either wired or (especially!) wireless. In many cases (can you say 'Epson'? Knew you could) the output produced by the OS X driver is inferior to that produced by the OS 9 driver, which in turn isn't as good as that produced by the Windows driver, so not only are there features missing but what you get is piss-poor as well. And if there is a GIMP-Print driver available for that printer, then that (free!) driver usually has features missing from the vendor's driver, such as network sharing, and almost always delivers superior output as well. It's not that the printers aren't capable of delivering the output and features under OS X that they can under Windows, it's that the vendors are too damn lazy to write proper drivers! Why, oh why, do Mac users put up with this crap?

I've found that Brother printers deliver unspectacular, but adequate, output, and seem to deliver the same level of support to Macs and Windows machines, and that Brother builds CUPS drivers, unlike Canon, Epson, and HP, so Brother printers are usually sharable. I'll be buying Brother printers and MFDs whereever I can. They should be supported. Canon, Epson, and HP should not be, until they wake the hell up and supply properly support.

[budster101]

Buh, bye.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by budster101

Buh, bye.

Why?

[budster101]

From your post you are done with Macs and printers, so I said, buy-bye.

I figured you were going over to Windows and we wouldn't be having you posting around here anymore.
Was that just a quick rant? What did you want with that post?

I disagree about the drivers. If you use the disc enclosed with the printer, that's your fault. I never do and have had zero problems printing. Of course this was not so initially with OS X 10.0 ... but we are now well into Tiger 10.4.2, so your assertions are just not factual.

Your software also has something to do with the printing. You get more features with Illustrator, and InDesign than you get with other print software. Don't just blame the printer Mfr.

Can you provide some screnn shots for comparison for your particular reasonings?
That would help.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by budster101

From your post you are done with Macs and printers, so I said, buy-bye.

You were wrong.

I figured you were going over to Windows and we wouldn't be having you posting around here anymore.
Was that just a quick rant? What did you want with that post?

The exact opposite. What I wanted was to see if we could so far as possible try to get the vendors to supply working drivers.

I disagree about the drivers. If you use the disc enclosed with the printer, that's your fault. I never do and have had zero problems printing. Of course this was not so initially with OS X 10.0 ... but we are now well into Tiger 10.4.2, so your assertions are just not factual.

In many cases there are no later drivers available on the various vendor sites. HP's drivers on their site for several of their printers and MFDs were _worse_ than the drivers which came with the printer on CD. At least _those_ drivers didn't lock up my Mac, where the drivers from the site did.

Your software also has something to do with the printing. You get more features with Illustrator, and InDesign than you get with other print software. Don't just blame the printer Mfr.

I blame the vendor when the same pic printed to the same printer from the same application comes out with colours which are close to those expected and on screen when I use 3rd-party drivers, but not so when I use the drivers supplied with the printer or drivers from the vendor's website. This has happened with inkjets from HP, Canon, & Epson. I've used commercial drivers. I've used free drivers, such as the GIMP-Print drivers. Usually the drivers which ship with the printer or from the vendor's site print faster than the 3rd party drivers, but the 3rd-party drivers deliver better output.

Can you provide some screnn shots for comparison for your particular reasonings?
That would help.

that would be difficult to do, given that the screen shots would be identical. It's the output that matters.

Furthermore, one of my points was that the drivers from the vendors don't do things like share the printer over the network. HP explicitly states this for many of their printers. Epson does not, but there's a reason why they offer a 'free' (after rebate) print server with certain printers: out of the box their printers can't be shared, either. Not with Macs. However, they _can_ be shared with Windows. And they _can_ be shared, with Macs, _if you use 3rd-party drivers_. Epson simply can't be arsed to write drivers which will work properly with CUPS. That is the simple fact. Denying it will not make it go away.

[itguy05]

No offense, but do you have a clue about which you speak?

I've owned printers by Canon and Epson (and probably soon to be Brother) and what you say is not true anymore. Here's a rundown of the printers:

Stylus 880 - worked with the same level of quality on Windows and Mac until it grenaded inside and clogged fatally after 2 years of use with generic ink.

Stylus photo 875DC - same level of print on Mac as Windows - only thing that did not work on OSX was the media reader, which I never used.

Canon i560 - same level of quality - Mac or Windows - and shares from Macs as well (just turn on printer sharing) Borderless, custom sizes, etc all supported.

Canon i960 - same level of quality - Mac or Windows - and shares from Macs jut fine. Borderless, custom sizes, etc all supported.

Epson R1800 - same quality - only thing I don't get on the Mac is Auto Gloss Optimizer, which is an inconvenience but no big deal. Borderless, roll paper, custom sizes, all supported. I think it shares just fine, but have not needed it.

The wife has a Canon i260 that also works fine regardless of the OS.

No issues with the quality of drivers here any more - for the most part, feature parity is here.

[budster101]

That is what I thought when I said, buh-bye. Now I am more certain this person doesn't know diddly.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by itguy05

No offense, but do you have a clue about which you speak?

I've owned printers by Canon and Epson (and probably soon to be Brother) and what you say is not true anymore. Here's a rundown of the printers:

Stylus 880 - worked with the same level of quality on Windows and Mac until it grenaded inside and clogged fatally after 2 years of use with generic ink.

I had a 880, and a 760, and a 950. All printed better from Windows than from Macs. I used Photoshop on both platforms. I also used other applications.

Stylus photo 875DC - same level of print on Mac as Windows - only thing that did not work on OSX was the media reader, which I never used.

Don't know about that one, never used one.

Canon i560 - same level of quality - Mac or Windows - and shares from Macs as well (just turn on printer sharing) Borderless, custom sizes, etc all supported.

borderless was _not_ supported out of the box. There was a second-generation driver which allegedly did support borderless, but by that time I'd replaced the Canon for other reasons.

Canon i960 - same level of quality - Mac or Windows - and shares from Macs jut fine. Borderless, custom sizes, etc all supported.

never used that one.

Epson R1800 - same quality - only thing I don't get on the Mac is Auto Gloss Optimizer, which is an inconvenience but no big deal. Borderless, roll paper, custom sizes, all supported. I think it shares just fine, but have not needed it.

some of us need that feature...

And it's got limited sharing. It'll share between Macs, if attached to a Mac. It'll share between Windows boxes, if attached to a Windows box. It won't share between a Mac and a Windows machine, unless it's attached to a Windows box and you do a lot of gymnastics involving 3rd party drivers (Apple drivers on the Windows box, to be precise, see <http://www.ifelix.co.uk/tech/index.html>, particularly the sections about printing to a printer attached to a Mac running 10.4 and printing to a printer attached to an XP SP2 machine.

The wife has a Canon i260 that also works fine regardless of the OS.

Don't know that machine, either.

No issues with the quality of drivers here any more - for the most part, feature parity is here.

I must disagree with you, particularly with respect to sharing. Others, including Epson, seem to agree with me.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by budster101

That is what I thought when I said, buh-bye. Now I am more certain this person doesn't know diddly.

Pehaps you'll explain the long, long threads over on the Apple discussion forums about their problems connecting to and sharing assorted Epson and HP and Canon printers? Or the fact that <http://www.ifelix.co.uk/tech/index.html> is just one of many websites set up in direct response to those problems?

But there's a simpler way. Just connect a bog-standard Canon, or Epson, or HP home or SOHO inkjet to your Mac by USB and attempt to share it. First see if it will share between two Macs. Then see if it will share between a Mac and a Windows box. Then disconnect it from the Mac and attach it to a Windows box and try to share it between two Windows boxes, then between a Windows box and a Mac. Go on. Try an Epson C86. Or a HP PSC1350 or 1610 or a Deskjet 6540. Note also that most of the software the 6540 comes with runs only on Windows. Don't take _my_ word for it, go to their site and see for yourself. HP Shopping link. (I changed your URL into a link because it screwed up the way the thread displayed. Glenn)

If you want to bury your head in the sand, go ahead. Dispute the _facts_. If you can.

[itguy05]

Originally Posted by ogun

I had a 880, and a 760, and a 950. All printed better from Windows than from Macs. I used Photoshop on both platforms. I also used other applications.

I find that hard to beleive since the 800 was a predecessor to the 880, IIRC.

borderless was _not_ supported out of the box. There was a second-generation driver which allegedly did support borderless, but by that time I'd replaced the Canon for other reasons.

Bought the i560 in April 2004 and it did do borderless out of the box. As did the i960, bought in October, 2003.

some of us need that feature...

For what? I have no issues with the GLOP filling the whole print area of a sheet. Most times I'll do an 8x10 or 4 4x6's on an 8x10 - no big deal for me, and most.

I must disagree with you, particularly with respect to sharing. Others, including Epson, seem to agree with me.

Again, I have no issues whatsoever. Even had sharing working between the i960 and i560 on my Mac and our Windows box. Then I nuked the Windows box.

[budster101]

Originally Posted by ogun

Pehaps you'll explain the long, long threads over on the Apple discussion forums about their problems connecting to and sharing assorted Epson and HP and Canon printers? Or the fact that <http://www.ifelix.co.uk/tech/index.html> is just one of many websites set up in direct response to those problems?

But there's a simpler way. Just connect a bog-standard Canon, or Epson, or HP home or SOHO inkjet to your Mac by USB and attempt to share it. First see if it will share between two Macs. Then see if it will share between a Mac and a Windows box. Then disconnect it from the Mac and attach it to a Windows box and try to share it between two Windows boxes, then between a Windows box and a Mac. Go on. Try an Epson C86. Or a HP PSC1350 or 1610 or a Deskjet 6540. Note also that most of the software the 6540 comes with runs only on Windows. Don't take _my_ word for it, go to their site and see for yourself. >>snipped URL because it STILL screwed up rendering. Glenn<<

If you want to bury your head in the sand, go ahead. Dispute the _facts_. If you can.

I'm a professional graphic designer, and I can tell you we have had zero issues with drivers and quality being different between Windows and Mac for printers, only bad end users who muck things up. This could explain the lengthy threads of people posting about 'issues'.

Most stick the disc that comes with the printer right in and muck it all up. Simple as that.

Why would I bother with the Mfrs. software? I don't need it.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by budster101

I'm a professional graphic designer, and I can tell you we have had zero issues with drivers and quality being different between Windows and Mac for printers, only bad end users who muck things up. This could explain the lengthy threads of people posting about 'issues'.

Most stick the disc that comes with the printer right in and muck it all up. Simple as that.

Why would I bother with the Mfrs. software? I don't need it.

In other words, "I'm alright, Jack", eh? And you don't seem to actually use the drivers that come with the machine, anyway... which explains why you don't see the problems.

Most users don't buy 3rd-party drivers. They're under the impression that they can print with what comes in the box. my point is that what comes in the box ain't good enough. By saying 'Why should I bother with the Mfrs. software? I don't need it." you are AGREEING WITH ME when I say that the vendors' stuff ain't good enough. Your solution is to buy 3rd-party software. My solution is to try to get the vendor to improve their software.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by itguy05

I find that hard to beleive since the 800 was a predecessor to the 880, IIRC.

Who mentioned the 800? Not me. And, oh, that '950' was really a 980. typo. sorry.

Bought the i560 in April 2004 and it did do borderless out of the box. As did the i960, bought in October, 2003.

this was not my experience.

For what? I have no issues with the GLOP filling the whole print area of a sheet. Most times I'll do an 8x10 or 4 4x6's on an 8x10 - no big deal for me, and most.

long story. however, that particular feature was one reason why that printer was purchased. It would have been a deal-breaker for it to have not worked except that we got rid of the printer for other reasons before we got that far. Nothing to do with the printer, everything to do with internal office ******** which doesn't interest me and certainly wouldn't interest you.

Again, I have no issues whatsoever. Even had sharing working between the i960 and i560 on my Mac and our Windows box. Then I nuked the Windows box.

Some of us were not so fortunate.