[dr.dirt]

I have a powerpc g3 /os 9.04/ manufactured 9/98 and am currently connected to an imagewriter2 via the appletalk connector. I would like to update my printer to a plain paper printer in the 15-20 page range and not spend more than $300-400. Is there a printer that will work with this machine. It is not connected to the internet, so it would be nice if drivers were available already in the unit or come with the printer. Locally, there is noone that can offer any suggestions other than to buy a pc.
Thanks for any info.
Doc

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: dr.dirt ]

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: dr.dirt ]

[G4ME]

Originally posted by dr.dirt:
<STRONG>I have a powerpc g3 /os 9.04/ manufactured 9/98 and am currently connected to an imagewriter2 via the appletalk connector. I would like to update my printer to a plain paper printer in the 15-20 page range and not spend more than $300-400. Is there a printer that will work with this machine. It is not connected to the internet, so it would be nice if drivers were available already in the unit or come with the printer. Locally, there is noone that can offer any suggestions other than to buy a pc.
Thanks for any info.
Doc

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: dr.dirt ]

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: dr.dirt ]</STRONG>

I take it that you might have USB, if not then I would highly recomend getting a card from Belkin, that would provide USB support, the OS 9.04 has USB support bult in so no problem there.

If you do have USB then go for a nice epson, if you just want somthing basic then 300 is very much over kill, you can find a decent Epson, 2400 DPI and like 15 PPM in black and white for around 120 max, check out
]mysimon.comfor the lowest prices.

The USB is going to be the only draw back in a PC world of Paralle printer cables.

[dr.dirt]

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry for not including the fact I don't have USB on this model. This Belkin card you mentioned, is that something internal or external?
I gather a plain paper printer is not available that uses the Appletalk cable that connects it presently to my Imagewriter2.

[OldManMac]

The usb card goes in one of the PCI expansion slots in your machine. It will add two usb ports on the back of the box. OS 9.0.4 will support a usb card, and you can get a Lexmark or Samsung laser printer for under $300 that will do a decent job. I assume that you mean a black and white laser, when you say plain paper printer? There are no printers made anymore that use the old Apple 8-pin serial port, so usb is your only option, in your price range.

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: KarlG ]

[G4ME]

I don't remember the connection I think ADB but my Epson 740 worked with my old 6116CD performa, if you got your hands on one of those, really cheap now, my guess around 30 bucks. that might do the job with no additonal hardware.

Also if you do get a USB card get the 4 port Quadra Bus from Belkin it provides 12Mps on each of the 4 ports, resulting in better speed and reliability.

What are you going to use if for, a laser might be over kill IMO.

[dr.dirt]

I'm going to use it in my store to print retail invoices at my front counter and I just need black and white. I think the g3's came with USB
a couple of months after I bought mine. All three of my iMacs have USB.
I network them from the G3 and use them to look up inventory in phone sales.
Thank you.
Doc

[climber]

You could also look for a small networkable laser printer. You would hook it up via the 10-base T port.

The HP 2200n is a great printer. Although quite a bit more expensive than an inkjet it would provide supperior balck and white and be VERY reliable. They also have a model under that is a little cheaper.

[climber]

I found this laser printer by HP

HP 1200N for $689.00 (MacMall) if you look around you might even beet this price. You can find some laser printers cheaper but most are not networkable and would require USB.

This printer will work with nearly every mac ever made now or in the future and will last as long as your imagewritter did. I have an Apple personal laser writter NTR that is almost as old as your imagewritter and it is still in use today. The HP quality is excellent. No drivers are needed with this printer for OS 9 or X. The other benefit is all your imacs could use this one printer with no need two have a second or third printer or having to setup a computer as a print server. They are also print much faster than inkjets.

What you spend extra on a laser printer you will save in supplies. Inkjet supplies are significantly more expensive per page compared to laser.

The bottom line is spend a little more and get a networkable laser printer and it will still be working in 10 years.

If you still need to beet the 400 buck price, look for the above used. But you may have to look hard, once you buy a laser you aren't likely to give it up.

Dr. Dirt,
Your G3 has serial ports. G4ME isn't correct about ADB. ADB was never used for printers.

Given your needs, you were on track initially. You've been given some poor advice relative to your needs. You don't need a network printer, and an inkjet isn't what you want either (lasers are better for documents given to customers, IMO). A 4-port USB card is overkill.

Pick up a 2-port USB card. That should cost you about $20. A personal laser printer is what will serve you and your customers well, and will fit your budget. Look at the offerings from HP, Lexmark, and Samsung.

[mgl]

Get a 2-port USB card. Then get an HP LaserJet 1200 ($400). This is a 1200dpi laser. Best quality in its price range. Very fast. Kind of ugly and noisy but did I mention fast and high quality? It's also PostScript emulation so you don't have to worry about HP dropping support for MacOS someday and not being able to get a driver for MacOS 11.5 or whatever.

If you can't justify the price, look at the Brother 1450. It's a bit cheaper but it has a complex setup and a much higher per page cost for expendables. Plus the paper tray is designed to catch dust bunnies in the back. The Samsung 1250 is also decent, but the print quality is nowhere close to HP.

You'll see two versions of the HP LaserJet 1200. The 1200 is the business version and the 1200 SE is the consumer version. The printers are 100% identical except for the software bundle. Because it's all crap software anyway, it doesn't matter which you buy although sometimes the 1200 is cheaper than the 1200 SE. I just bought whichever one Office Depot carried which turned out to be the 1200 SE.

Note that the HP doesn't come with a USB cable so you have to buy one separately. The other brands might include one. Samsung may include a second toner cartridge which does make it a good value.

The Samsung and Brother printers are non-PostScript so driver availability is important. I know Samsung had beta OS X drivers a few months ago so I assume they're done now. Not sure about Brother.

Mike

[climber]

Originally posted by &lt;new newton&gt;:
<STRONG>Dr. Dirt,
Your G3 has serial ports. G4ME isn't correct about ADB. ADB was never used for printers.

Given your needs, you were on track initially. You've been given some poor advice relative to your needs. You don't need a network printer, and an inkjet isn't what you want either (lasers are better for documents given to customers, IMO). A 4-port USB card is overkill.

Pick up a 2-port USB card. That should cost you about $20. A personal laser printer is what will serve you and your customers well, and will fit your budget. Look at the offerings from HP, Lexmark, and Samsung.</STRONG>

And what exactly are you adding to this?? Nothing I guess. KarlG already suggested a 2 port USB card. Then G4ME suggested an even better card to look at as an alternative. Then you pipe in he does not need 4 ports. How do you know?? The fact is you don’t. G$ME also admitted he didn’t remember the name of the port; You stating he is incorrect was quite redundant an unnecessary.

I suggested a network printer that was above his budget because he had mentioned he has a small network already. Perhaps it might be valuable to be able to print from all his macs without having one of them tied up acting as a print server. You failed to even ask, before stating it was not needed. Again, how do you know??

There are many advantages in a network printer that justify spending 200 dollars more, not the least of which is not having to worry about flakey printer drivers. Every single network laser printer I can think of can be hooked up to a current network and can even print in OSX. This includes localtalk printers nearly as old as the Imagewritter II he is replacing. The same can not be said of almost all those persounal serial printers, some even newer than his G3.

Suggesting he had “been given poor advice” is a bit arrogant on your part considering what you have added and what information Dr. Dirt has provided us. I guess that's easy for you since you are unregistered, please stay that way,

edit to add

MGL has a good recommendation. The HP 1200 is a great printer.

Get the USB if that is all you really need or can afford. Get the 1200n if avoiding a print server or future compatibility are important enough to justify the added expense.

By the way I do not think the laserwriter 8 driver in OS9 can print via USB. That means you would need a driver for this specific printer installed. The Apple laserwritter driver would be looking for the printer on the network instead of locally on the mac.

[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: climber ]

The man discribed what he wants and needs. People have suggested solutions for unapparent needs that break his budget. Just how is that helpful?

There may be many fine and wonderful reasons to spend an extra $200 beyond his budget for a LJ1200N, but those are your fine and wonderful reasons, Climber. Instead of flat out telling him to get a 1200N, why didn't you mention that he could purchase a 1200 and if his budget loosened at some point or his needs expanded he could add the external print server. You are aware that the LJ1200N is just a 1200 with a USB-ethernet bridging printer server, aren't you?

Concrete advice is far better than tossing out 5 different ways to bust a budget and provide more than the necessary functions.

[climber]

Originally posted by &lt;new newton&gt;:
<STRONG>The man discribed what he wants and needs. People have suggested solutions for unapparent needs that break his budget. Just how is that helpful?

There may be many fine and wonderful reasons to spend an extra $200 beyond his budget for a LJ1200N, but those are your fine and wonderful reasons, Climber. Instead of flat out telling him to get a 1200N, why didn't you mention that he could purchase a 1200 and if his budget loosened at some point or his needs expanded he could add the external print server. You are aware that the LJ1200N is just a 1200 with a USB-ethernet bridging printer server, aren't you?

Concrete advice is far better than tossing out 5 different ways to bust a budget and provide more than the necessary functions.</STRONG>

If you bothered to read my post you would already know others and I already suggested he could get a cheaper USB printer or even look for an older used printer. It was also pointed out he could add the needed USB support to his current G3.

Get this straight, I never “flat out told him” to get anything. I merely suggested an alternative that was admittedly more expensive and perhaps worth it, especially considering his current small network of macs.

You don’t have to spend much time on these boards to hear the problems people are having with USB printers and drivers from companies, even like HP, that are slow with mac software. Just visit the OSX board for a day. NONE of these problems are had with any printer that can print from the Laserwriter driver.

Yes, I am quite aware of how to upgrade the HP printers. And, I had already planned a follow up with that suggestion, had he returned expressing a need for that capability.

Sorry, the only “concrete advice” I see is still stuck in your head. Why is it you have such difficulty with this. He either gets a USB printer after adding that capacity to his G3, or he spends a little more and uses his current network. Both were appropriately suggested prior to your arrival. What little you have you added has unfortunately been well masked by your critical tone.

Originally posted by climber:
<STRONG>Get this straight, I never “flat out told him” to get anything. </STRONG>

<STRONG>The bottom line is spend a little more and get a networkable laser printer and it will still be working in 10 years.</STRONG>

Nothing like a little FUD and fudging to help a guy out, eh?

<STRONG>Just visit the OSX board for a day. NONE of these problems are had with any printer that can print from the Laserwriter driver.</STRONG>

Of course you're point out something relevant once again here. Never mind that he's not running OS X...

<STRONG>Yes, I am quite aware of how to upgrade the HP printers. And, I had already planned a follow up with that suggestion, had he returned expressing a need for that capability.</STRONG>

I see. You'll toss out a 2200N as a perfectly reasonable solution, but you hesitate to mention the above because he 'might not need it just yet'. How thoughtful of you.

<STRONG>Both were appropriately suggested prior to your arrival. What little you have you added has unfortunately been well masked by your critical tone.</STRONG>

My appologies if I've turned your nose. You seem a little sensitive. I merely mentioned a few problems with the advice that's been given, and tried to point him down what I think is the appropriate path. Are you done with the insults, or would you like to continue to berate me for calling a spade a spade? Perhaps you'll suggest a nice HP LJ8550GN next. Sure, it's a bit past what he wants to spend. But it'll last 10 years, and the duplexer and multiple paper trays might really come in handy. Just think of all the room for growth!

Dorks, and you know it.

[climber]

I rest my case.....web page

Did the thought ever occur to you that someone who is still using a Imagewriter might not know you can share or network printers?

I could make the same criticisms about your suggestion of getting a two port USB hub. He could instead hook up a new USB printer to one of his iMacs and share it across the network. He could save even more by doing this with a dirt cheap inkjet.

It is even possible, however small, his budget was 400 bucks because he had planed on getting more than one of them, so all of his macs can print. I have seen a lot folks waste time by moving data to the computer that has the printer, because they simply don’t know it could ” do that”

The simple fact is you don’t know, and none of these suggestions were inappropriate given the limited information provided.

[dr.dirt]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I just got back to work, Monday, and have seen all your responses. I have additional info that might aid you in helping me if you'd like.
My macs are in network via ethernet and I can print from either computer. The iMac has a Epson color 740 (cheap).
The iMac I use to input supplier invoices and print bar code price labels. I presently can print the invoices from my g3 desktop on the Epson, but it is at the other end of the building. Occasionally the old Imagewriter acts up and I have to print a customers invoice on the iMac.
I found the following print extensions(disabled) in the g3:
Color SW 1500
Color SW 2500
Color Pro
CSW 6000
Laserwriter 300/LS
Laserwriter 8
The following connector inputs are available on the back of the g3:
1-keyboard
1-ethernet connecting to the other iMac
1-multiple pin (didn't disconnect) connected to the monitor
1-printer 9 pin (unused)
1-phone? icon 9 pin(connected to the printer via appletalk cable)
1- 25 pin connector (unused) looks like a monitor connector.
Thanks again for all your help.
Doc

[climber]

Welcome back,

The mac you have now was designed to print on either the “printer” port (the phone works as well) or the Ethernet port. You will not find any new printers that support the old “printer” port because they have been replaced by USB. There are many Ethernet choices available but at an increased cost.

If you choose to add the USB support to your G3 you would need to get a USB PCI card for that mac. They are not very expensive and easy to find and install. This type of card is internal and would add two or more ports to the back of that mac.

I you need or want to print equally well to the new printer from all your macs, a network printer does make life easier and faster. You can accomplish the same thing by sharing the printer, like you can with your Epson. The downside is speed and dependence on a software solution that in my opinion is questionable. Another advantage to a network printers is the ability to physically locate the printer wherever you need or want it on the network instead of always next to the one mac. Then you could place the printer in a central location that is easy for everyone to access.

Good luck, and ask if you have any other questions.

[dr.dirt]

One last question.
The USB card, is that something I can install easily? I see what looks like 3 expansion slots on the back of the g3. Do I remove the top cover to get at these? The only work I've ever done on a computer is install more ram in my iMacs.
Locally there is no support for Macs, we live in the 'black hole' of mac support. If I had a pc here in the store I could walk to at least 3 places that could help me with my questions. I've been using Macs since 1986 and since I've connected to the internet these forums have been an invaluable source for information and help wheher it's gaming or work related.
Once again, your help is greatly appreciated.

[climber]

It is very easy,

It is the same process as on any windows based PC, it even uses the same type of card (PCI). Any PC friends of yours could help as the procedure is the same

Just turn the computer off, you can even leave it plugged in and open the case. It is then wise to touch the power supply with your finger to eliminate any chance a static charge could damage the components. Do this prior to handling the USB card. Then, insert the card in one of the three expansion slots. You will need to pop off the little plate on the back of the case that covers the outside of the expansion slot to get the card to fit. A single screw usually holds it down. Once it is inserted into the slot that screw is used to hold it down. Put cover back on the case and power up the computer. Then you can install the included software. (some times they will tell you to install the software first, usually either order will work fine.)

The process is actually quite simple and straightforward. The directions that come with the card are likely to be more than sufficient.

Good luck

[bhive]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dr.dirt:
[QB]I have a powerpc g3 /os 9.04/ manufactured 9/98 and am currently connected to an imagewriter2 via the appletalk connector. I would like to update my printer to a plain paper printer in the 15-20 page range and not spend more than $300-400. Is there a printer that will work with this machine. It is not connected to the internet, so it would be nice if drivers were available already in the unit or come with the printer. Locally, there is noone that can offer any suggestions other than to buy a pc.
Thanks for any info.
Doc

If you're still haveing trouble finding a laser wrtiter for cheap and are considering the more affordable ink jet route, the Epson Stylus Color 740 should do the trick. real straight forward. Trouble free. Cheap with really great performance. (about $170 CAN/ $100 US?) Had it for my G3 and now my G4 and have had no problems in the 2 years. All software with printer works fine. Ink is cheap for this model. No upgrades needed. And it has USB and serial ports on back so no need to buy a card. Can't go wrong for a low cost short term solution.
Good luck!

null