Well, my SCSI CDR is toast. Erm... no pun intended. Seeing as how I've got this shiny strawberry jewel adorning my desktop now, I'd like to get a Firewire CDRW to accompany it.

I didn't do any research before buying my last CDR (a crappy LaCie marque with a Sony mechanism) and I've paid the price, too - at least half of the CDs we've tried failed. So before I buy, I need to know which ones are the best.

Note that I don't want USB at all... I've heard people talking about them, and there are some limitations (2x burn for audio CDs, for example) which I don't really like.

Thanks very much for all advice and info!

I have an iMac DV/SE. I bought the EZquest Boa (6x, 4x, 24x) Firewire CD rw. It is quite good. I've had no problems with it so far.

Another one that I heard was coming out was the Que firewire CD rw which will boast of
(8x, 4x, 32x) performance. It is also supposed to be compliant with Toast 4.0.

The EZquest drive shipped with Toast 3.8 and have not bothered upgrading since it suits my needs.

What are the prices like on their CDRs? I've seen some announced which are like 8x write which will retail for less than $400.

Toast is compatible with these drives? No compatibility issues? Hmm...that's good. I'll have to look at Adaptec's site and see what they have up there.

Thanks!

Go for the EZquest Boa from smalldog, i own one and it works, I have not seen any consistently favorable posts regarding any other firewire cd-rw.

A question on the EZquest Boa: it apparently uses a "bridge" to make the Firewire connection. What does this mean? Does it have any effect on performance?

Thanks

At this pint all Firewire cd-r's use a bridge, there are no e firewire cd-r's on the market. I do not know if this implies some sort of performance hit.

Well, today is Jan 31st... QPS's date for release of the firedrive 8x writer which I had on order since november!! We'll see if I'll be getting it tomorrow... or a week from tomorrow... or a week after that.. and so on! The drive is $399 at outpost.com.

Mike

Originally posted by MikeD:
Well, today is Jan 31st... QPS's date for release of the firedrive 8x writer which I had on order since november!! We'll see if I'll be getting it tomorrow... or a week from tomorrow... or a week after that.. and so on! The drive is $399 at outpost.com.

Mike

Well its the 1st and QPS STILL hasn't shipped anything. Bugs? problem getting componets, software. They don't say anything. Wednesday I cancel the order. LOTS of people are waiting.I don't like it QPS doesn't say something.
:MAD:

I feel your pain! I've had my 8x4x32 Graphite Firewire Que drive on pre-order almost as long as you and it's getting pretty ridiculous. It's Feb 3rd and Outpost says that QPS hasn't even called to update them on when the next ship date would be (not that it really matters, because they've blown like 8 ship dates). If it wasn't for how cool this drive would look next to my SE, I would have cancelled long ago.
As for calling QPS directly, well they just say that in order to get the info I want I need to email the sales department, which I've done 6 times with no reply.

All this waiting is making the 8x4x32 Ezquest Boa at Smalldog for $405 look more and more attractive.

Fantom Drives is shipping a bunch of FireWire stuff, including CD-Rs. They're a great company; very friendly and informed. Their site also has all sorts of technical and troubleshooting FAQs.
http://www.fantomdrives.com

Is EZQuest producing a 8x4x32 firewire drive?
I saw it at Smalldog for $405 also but couldn't find it on EZQuest's website. Also, has anyone ever had problems with the Fantom 8x4x32? I really want a firewire burner and I guess these are my only options as QPS seems to be "delayed" and Sony just quit with their 8x burner.

I called Outpost this morning (7:45am EST) and the man I spoke with said that they are "supposed" to get 4 very large shipments of QPS Firewire 8x4x32 drives in today.
Man, I hope this is true! If it is, I'll be sure to burn some CD's and post my results here.
Later,
Blizaine

OK, surprise surprise, it's not in yet. Outpost says, (yet again) QPS hasn't called with an update on when this drive will ship.

I'd hate to be the guy at QPS that has to call all the retail outlets every week and tell them that it will be "One more week". He must have had his hands full these last 4 or 5 months, making all those calls every week. I wonder if some of the retail chains are starting to laugh at him and say, "whatever man".

I'm going to end up spending my $400 bucks on therapy instead of a CD-Burner, if this keeps up any longer.....

According to the warehouse.com website, CD-RW QPS 4X4X24 FIREWIRE EXT. F/MAC (MicroWarehouse #: DRI3783) is in stock.

I called in to doublecheck (1 800-397-8508) and spoke to [name withheld to protect an innocent phone person]..he said it was out of stock. He said there are 400 backorders, and he imagines that it was not received yet. He said it is expected on the 11th.

RE:EzQuest 8X4X32 @ smalldog

Yes they have it, yes it's real, yes it's fast. $405. Cancel your QPS orders.

I got one of the first 2 from smalldog, had it for about a week, no problems.

One thing though:the version of toast it comes with it is "Toast 4" not "Toast 4 deluxe" and it only does:Audio CD (no MP3 conversion built in either), SCSI Copy, Mac Files/Folders.

And I don't think the full toast 4 supports it yet, since it is a very new mechanism, but I'm sure that will come with toast Deluxe 4.0.2 or whatever.

I kind of have a feeling all the Firewire drives will have this Limited version of toast with them...

Anyway, have fun.

BTW, I'm using it on a G4 AGP, OS9 192 meg ram.

okay.. now I'm really sick of waiting for my firedrive from qps... We want answers! And we want them now!

Mike

APS Technologies also sells an 8x4x32 Firewire CD-RW for $400. Has anyone bought one?

How about the LaCie products?

I finally received my QPS Que! Fire 24x/4x/4x firewire drive yesterday (I ordered it on 11/18/99!) from a local store. It works great, and I would recommend it. I've used it with a G4-350 and my iMac DV SE with no problems. It was easy to set up and I haven't burned one coaster yet. I've used the Que USB drives in the past, and always had problems with them, but so far, this Que firewire drive has been flawless. I'm quite happy with it. Incidentally, I checked with the store where I got it, and they don't have any more. They only got a few to fill some of their earliest backorders and are still waiting for more. Just wanted to let everyone know that the Que drives are beginning to trickle out, and if you can find one, they work fine. The only shortcoming that I can see is that, as mentioned earlier, it only came with Toast 4.0.1.1, and it only does: Mac Files/Folders, audio CD, and disk copy. This is minor, though, and doesn't matter to the majority of the CDs that I want to write for now. Besides, it's still better than not coming with Toast at all.

That's really good news!.... for you. I've only had my 8x4x32x que on pre-order for about a month and a half. Outpost says that they are, yet again, "Supposed" to get a bunch on Feb 25th. But, it is really nice to here that someone got their's!
Thanks for the good news!

About The 8X EZQuest Boa:

Will the drive write AUDIO CDs at 8X? Somebody who has one please let me know.

Thanks!

The only shortcoming that I can see is that, as mentioned earlier, it only came with Toast 4.0.1.1, and it only
does: Mac Files/Folders, audio CD, and disk copy.
I want to back up my games (Hornet,Falcon) and system cd's. Will it do those?
What doesn't it do?

What I don't understand is that in the Toast Deluxe 4.0 Read Me file, under the "What's new" heading, it states "USB and Firewire Support - Allows you to use USB and Firewire CD-R with Toast." Why would they put that unless it was true? Has anyone tried using toast deluxe with their firewire CD-RW?
Later

Here is what I have discovered:

I bought a BOA Firewire 8x4x32 drive, it came with Toast 3.8.2 USB (?). It never worked. This morning I got a QUE USB drive, it came with Toast 4.0.1.1, which is all very well but it only burns Mac Files & Folders, Audio CDs and SCSI Copy, which is all but useless in a busy studio where I need to burn stuff for PCs.

Now I was running OS9, and never got the BOA to work at all, I downgraded to 8.6 today and installed the Que drive, it worked like a charm. I have a full copy of Toast 4.0 Deluxe, so now I can burn any type of CD I like, but only as long as the system files from the Que supplied version of Toast are installed (ie: 4.0.1.1), In other words I have installed Toast 4.0 Deluxe, then trashed all its system extensions, then installed Toast 4.0.1.1, and finally gone back to Toast 4.0 application. This works fine.

I obtained a newer version of the FireSCSI software (thanks) so I also checked the BOA drive, Toast 3.8.2 still didnt work but oddly the Que supplied version of Toast (4.0.1.1) did, Toast 4.0 deluxe however, didnt.

so in summary, these combinations work:

OS 8.6, BOA Firewire drive, Toast 4.0.1.1 (limited formats)
OS 8.6, Que USB drive, Toast 4.0.1.1 (limited formats)
OS 8.6, Que USB drive, Toast 4.0 Deluxe (all formats!)

OS 9 seems to stop everything from working, and Toast 3.8.2 is useless in all combinations.

Que/BOA update:

My Que drive refuses to burn at 4x, it just keeps generating errors - great!

But I have discovered something a little weird about the stripped down Toast 4.0.1.1 that comes with the Que drive, not only does it support the BOA Firewire drive, but it isnt stripped down at all!

I made an ISO9660 Toast setup using Toast Deluxe 4.0 and saved the setup, and then I opened that setup in Toast 4.0.1.1 and lo and behold it works! So this means that Toast 4.0.1.1 has all the functionality of the full version but a crippled interface!

This is good for me as I can now use the crippled version to burn at 8x on the BOA, only drawback is I have to make the CD setup using another version first.

That Adaptec SCSI card on the other side of the room is looking more attractive by the second.

This is a question for ChrisJenkins who posted above.... Where did you get the FireSCSI update? I couldn't find it anywhere (even at Indiga's website where they had "Macintosh Support Coming Soon!!!" Could you please tell me where you got it? I think that'll solve my BOA's problems.

Thanks

MacMall says that 200 QPS FireDrives are in. They say that they are shipping my 4x4x24 drive to me today. I don't know if all 200 will be used to fill backorders or not. Hopefully QPS has worked out all the bugs before shipping.

I canceled my QPS order today. With QPS's track record, I doubt customer support will exist.
I decided after doing some research that scsi is way faster, and will be for quite a while.
With the 16th as "showing the new QPS in Japan" I thought they might ship today. Too little too late.
I found out Yamaha and Plextor both support Mac's. Quite Well it seems. Good luck with QPS

Unfortunately, I have an iMac DV/SE which won't do SCSI unless I buy some sort of USB to SCSI adapter. With all the reported problems with CD burning on USB, I don't consider USB a viable option for CD-R. If the iMacs had SCSI, I would have bought a SCSI burner months ago. Seems like the only option for me is to wait for a FireWire drive.

Also, everything I've read about FireWire says that it's FASTER that SCSI.

I do have one concern with the QPS drive and Toast 4.0.1.1. My iMac shipped with OS9 so thats the only Mac OS I have. The Adaptec site says that Toast doesn't work with OS9.

SCSI vs. FIREWIRE
SCSI FireWire
Number of devices supported 7 63
Requires termination yes no
Hot-pluggable no yes
Sets device IDs automatically no yes
Allows branching connections no yes
Physical connector type nasty nice
Computer required for data transfer yes no
Standard transfer rate 40 Mbps 400 Mbps
Maximum transfer rate 1.2Gbps >1.5 GbpsD

From MacWorld

I'm looking to share a burner
i want scsi or firewire for the speed but the other sharing compter has only USB (early imac with mezzanine slot)

is there a firewire to USB adaptor, any ideads? thanks

A USB burner may be your only choice with the RevA iMac. You can also get a USB to SCSI adapter from Adaptec but why? Usually the adapter is for people who already have SCSI devices that they want to use on the iMac. You won't get SCSI speeds with the adapter because USB is still the bottleneck.

USB burners are slow but they work.

MacMall has changed their story. Now they say that they have not yet received a shipment from QPS. It'll be ANOTHER 1 or 2 weeks. Ya, right, like I beleive that one. I don't know if I should keep waiting or cancel and buy another brand. Has anyone tried a FireWire drive (other then the BOA)?

Yeah, Outpost says the same thing. They are supposed to get some in on Feb 25 and then some more on March 3rd.

This is crazy how long it's taking.

I'm wondering what the big differences are between the Fantom 8x4x32x Firewire drive which has a MSRP of $580, and the other drives that have been talked about in this forum that all cost about $400 (QPS, APS, BOA, ect..)

Toast 4.0.1.1 and OS9 do appear to work. I tried this with a Que USB drive and Toast could see the drive just fine. The BOA Firewire drive didnt work however, so maybe the FireSCSI software isnt compatible with OS9?

When I spoke to QPS about a month ago about the delays, they blamed Toast for not working with FireWire. So, I sent a note to Adaptec to get their side of the story and here's the response I got today (2/17):

Ken,Thank you for your interest in Toast 4. At this time, I do not have an
exact date for an update patch to Toast 4. I am not aware of any incompatibilities with Firewire devices.The
issue is we have not completed testing and adding the Firewire CDR's to our
list of supported devices.
Sorry for the inconvenience and we do appreciate your patience.

you wrote:
>When will Taost 4.0 Deluxe support firewire on an iMac DVSE?>
>QPS has been promising a Que! Firedrive with Toast for two months.
>Does your software actually work on this drive? What are the known
>compatability problems between the Que! Firedrive and Toast? QPS is
>blaming Adaptec for the delays in shipment of the drive. Is adaptec
>having trouble getting Toast to work with Firewire?>
>I would like to buy Toast 4 Deluxe for the firedrive. However, I want
>to know what the issues are first. Thanks.>>Ken Boyden

Sounds like Adaptec isn't even done testing Toast for FireWire yet!!!!! I wish someone would give us a straight answer about this.

Let's see if I can shed some light on the topic from the LaCie and APS Tech perspective:

First, while LaCie and APS Tech have announced FireWire CD-RW drives, we are not shipping these products at this time. Due to lead times, ads were placed with several of the Mac mail order catalogs in November and December, in anticipation of being able to deliver by January Macworld.

Due to technical issues, we are not shipping, but are actively continuing with development. We have advised our mail order reseller partners about this delay, but have not communicated a revised shipping date. I cannot provide one at this time.

Adaptec is working with a number of companies like LaCie to provide a reliable, quality FireWire CD-RW solution. Adaptec to date has not released a FireWire version of Toast. Officially, Adaptec has released two versions of Toast:
- Toast Deluxe 4.0 was released late last summer
- Toast Standard Edition 4.0.1.1 was released for OEMs in November 1999

As has been commented previously in this thread, Toast Standard Edition v4.0.1.1 has a subset of the features of Toast Deluxe 4.0. Additionally, Toast Deluxe 4.0, while supporting USB drives, still does not support Toast CD Reader for USB drives. Then again, toast 4.0.1.1 does support Toast CD Reader for USB drives - to permit using the USB drive as a CD-Reader.

So let's get to FireWire...

Several manufacturers as mentioned above have developed a solution for their FireWire CD-RW drives that permits operation of Toast Deluxe 4.0 or Toast Standard Edition to work with their FireWire drives solutions. This is done thru a SHIM, a software driver which makes the drive appear on a pseudo SCSI bus, as one of the supported ATAPI drives (the drive mechanism inside). These solutions are known to Adaptec, and to LaCie, but at this time, Adaptec has not certified their usage. Adaptec is not supporting any of these SHIM solutions at this time.

LaCie and Adaptec continue to work together on a final certified solution for LaCie drives; similarly Adaptec may be working with the other manufacturers.

LaCie has determined that the SHIM solution as available today does not meet the quality standards we strive to meet, and recognize that as improvements are made to Toast for true FireWire support we must make our drives compatible with the Adaptec approved driver methods.

LaCie will not ship product until we have a solid solution.

Let me suggest a possible "what if" scenario...

The present FireWire solutions work to some degree as the previous comments note. Apple continues to make improvements to FireWire; what can publicly be said is that the new machines recently announced by Apple use FireWire V2.3 or later and a new release of Mac OS 9; likely 9.01 or 9.02. V2.2.2 of FireWire is the latest version available today.

Adaptec has several problems in Toast 4.0 and 4.0.1.1 to correct for Mac OS 9.0, and will likely make changes for SCSI, ATAPI, USB, and FireWire compatibility. Current users of the interim FireWire solution will need to get assurances from their vendors that the FireWire SHIM will continue to work.

There is one other FireWire CD-RW solution that has shipped in the past year - the Sony SPRESSA; this ships with the Charismac DISCRIBE software. Originally introduced for the B&W G3, there have been problems reported in attempts to use with the iMac DV; with G4; and with third party FireWire upgrade cards. Only recently has Sony been able to develop a fix/solution, requiring a hardware upgrade for compatibility with the newer machines.

I hope you view these remarks as a candid look of what is going on with FireWire CD-RW development, and why LaCie is not shipping today. And why Adaptec is stating that their software is not FireWire compatible at this time. The info I am conveying does not reveal any confidential information.

Mike Mihalik
LaCie

[This message has been edited by mmihalik (edited 02-17-2000).]

Ok... here's my take on it

I just got a BOA 8x4x32 a few days ago and still haven't been able to get it to work on my Beige G3 266 with an OrangeLink PCI card. I've upgraded to FireSCSI 1.3 and that didn't help. It came with Toast 4.0.1.1 and it DID recognize the drive. Moreover, I was able to (and still can) mount CD's from the drive, but am unable to burn or "self test" the drive via Toast as I get an error "unstable SCSI connection" when I try to burn. The error comes in about 12-15 seconds into the burn. The burn did work a little as I can get folder formats on the CD. I did a little research (at the expense of my academic studies) in on the Mat****a CW-7585 (the company who makes the drive mechanism) and the US company is Panasonic. Apparently, there was a firmware problem with the Mat****a CW-7502 drive for which updates are available from LaCie. However, the problems casued by this firmware problem are the exact same problems that I experienced. I'm wondering if everyone who has a BOA 8x4x32 may be suffering from this firmware problem. According to Toast Recorder info, I'm at firmware v. 1.0.1.

Any ideas/comments?

I have the BOA 8X4X32 as well. I have had no problems with it. I did have a similar problem with my old SCSI drive though. I had an Orange micro SCSI card, and a lot of the time when I went to make a CD etc I would get the "SCSI connection unstable" message.

Long story short, I switched to an adaptec 2906 SCSI card, and the problem was gone.
I think Orange micro is doing somthing strange with it's PCI cards...If possible, I'd try to get my hands on a different Firewire Card, and see if that helps.

BTW, I have a G4 (AGP) OS9, 192 ram, no VM, various USB crap, and the BOA firewire CD-R, and I have had NO problems with it, with either version of FireSCSI.

(well one problem:Audio CDs end with 1/2 second of digital noise, weather I write session or disc or whatever, but thats besides the point)

BTW2. Orange micro tech support was useless.

Good luck!

mmihalik,

Thanks for the great response! This is the best explaination of what's going on between Adaptec and CD-RW manufacturers I've heard yet.

The LaCie position is now clear, but I still don't understand why QPS doesn't seem to be as forthcoming about their delays. If any QPS or Adaptec techs read this thread, how about matching LaCie's gracious explaination with one of your own?

kEn

Ken,

While I don't speak for Adaptec, rest assured, they are aware of my comments as well as other inputs.

The people at Adaptec that can fix things are busy working on the fixes rather than reading the different forums.

Mike Mihalik
LaCie

Mike,

I know you didn't say exactly who is using a SHIM solution to make their drives look like they're on a SCSI bus. Is it your guess that QPS is using this approach? (just give me a or something)

Qps told me that they have a TRUE FireWire solution. Doesn't sound likely given what you said about Adaptec not supporting FireWire yet.

kEn
CD Burner Wannabe

Ken,

There are no CD-RW mechanisms that are being manufactured that have a FireWire interface built in; there are only SCSI and ATAPI versions of drives.

Adaptec Toast only supports SCSI and ATAPI drives directly, and USB drives via individual USB driver software for USB drives that use an ATAPI to USB bridge.

All FireWire drive solutions shipping today use either a FireWire to ATAPI bridge or a FireWire to SCSI bridge.

Draw you own conclusions.

Mike Mihalik
VP Engineering
LaCie

Are there any more sightings of QPS's offerings?

I'm calling outpost today for an update!

Mike

Okay, about that update.. Outpost is saying the 25th or the 3rd of March. Looks like they already have the backup date just incase!! They also have about 120+ on back order.. All I know is that I've been on backorder since Nov... Shouldn't the price be dropping soon? I'm in no REAL hurry, but it would be nice...

Mike

Can we bet in this forum?

$5 bucks says that we won't see our drives ship on either one of those dates....




still waiting .................................................. .............forever...

Well, finally we getting some info. On QPS' site they have a statement as to when the Firewire drives will actually be available. It reads:

"Please note that our 4x4x24 FireWire CD-RW is currently shipping in limited quantities worldwide. We expect to ship the 8x4x32 FireWire CD-RW in limited quantities early April and the FireWire DVD-RAM in May. "
www.qps-inc.com

later

MacMall gives 2/28 as the date for the QPS drive. The $5 bet is a sucker bet if I ever saw one. I figured when I ordered a QPS 4x4x24 FireDrive on 12/3/99 that I would see it by Jan 1 no problem. Maybe they sent all the drives to the Tokyo MacWorld and sold them there.

kEn
Another QPS Waiter

that's it, I'm moving to Tokyo!

Wow, it's so funny--- I just found this forum today, but I've been struggling with these same problems for months now! Everyday the phone calls over and over.

Thank you mike for being so honest.

I guess I'll just try to squeeze a little more life out of my old SCSI hooked up to my powerbook. It's a hassle. But I WANT 8X FIREWIRE!!! (I refuse to put a scsi card in my g4!).

I got my QPS Que! FireWire 4x4x24x about two weeks ago. I had placed my order mid-November with MacMall. I've burned about 25 discs with no failure. Main complaint is that I have the unplug the firewire cable from the drive when I reboot or else it crashes before the extensions are loaded. I've got an 8500 w/ 300Mhz G3 upgrade and an OrangeMicro PCI FireWire card. (My gut tells me it is the card that causes the crash)

Brian