[drainyoo]

Dont you people have better things to do. I tried so hard to not post my opinion, but i cant help it YOU ARE ALL RETARD. First off the iPod isnt over price, so stop being cheap americans. The damn thing has 5gb of storage in a case no bigger than a deck of cards. Nomad has a 5gb, but its the size of a cd player and it sucks ass!! Dont you people see that? Its Firewire, which no other mp3 has! It can also be used as a hard drive!! People a hard drive!!! Lets say your at your friends house and he/she just showed you movie trailer that was really cool. You can hook the iPod up and take it home. Now thats worth 400 all by itself!!! I just dont understand how Apple lovers can bash great products and called them selves Apple fans. Its bull. Everytime Apple release something new there is always negative feedback even when the product is amazing. Apple has but out innovative products that amaze me everyday. We should thank Apple,because without them we would all be PC users.

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Dont you people have better things to do. I tried so hard to not post my opinion, but i cant help it YOU ARE ALL RETARD. First off the iPod isnt over price, so stop being cheap americans. The damn thing has 5gb of storage in a case no bigger than a deck of cards. Nomad has a 5gb, but its the size of a cd player and it sucks ass!! Dont you people see that? Its Firewire, which no other mp3 has! It can also be used as a hard drive!! People a hard drive!!! Lets say your at your friends house and he/she just showed you movie trailer that was really cool. You can hook the iPod up and take it home. Now thats worth 400 all by itself!!! I just dont understand how Apple lovers can bash great products and called them selves Apple fans. Its bull. Everytime Apple release something new there is always negative feedback even when the product is amazing. Apple has but out innovative products that amaze me everyday. We should thank Apple,because without them we would all be PC users.</STRONG>

Let me tackle this one point by point.

The Creative Nomad is the size of a CD player for a reason. All that extra volume serves to improve shock absorption. Over the coming days, expect unprecedented returns of iPods to retailers as the flimsy shell fails to adequately protect the fragile hard drive inside, and even the gentlest drops render the iPod unusable.

The use of Firewire is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE. Only the highest end Apples and PCs used in video production have Firewire. So whatever limited appeal the iPod may have had, it has even less of it because it does not use a universal, ubiquitous standard such as USB.

As for its use as a hard drive, expect Apple to be sued by multiple music labels, as well as music studios, over this feature in the coming days. The Creative Nomad could have had this feature 1.5 years ago, but did not for a reason. Content producers do not want consumers to have access to an easy, fast, practical way to move around large amounts of data.

As for the "getting a movie from a friend" scenario, nope. That won't work. Unless your friend has a Mac (5% chance) and unless his Mac is one of the latest, ridiculously overpriced models with Firewire (maybe 0.1% chance) he won't be able to get the movie onto your iPod. If he has a CD burner however (more than 50% chance, according to latest industry statistics) he will be able to burn that movie and every other movie that you would like to see onto cheap 10 cent CDRs. And it will be EVEN FASTER than getting that very same file onto a Firewire enabled iPod. Imagine that.

I won't comment on previous Apple products, but the iPod is a pathetic imitation. It steals ideas from Creative (Nomad) and Sony (jog dial) and makes a ridiculously expensive product solving problems others have solved years, years before, and for much cheaper (mp3 playback, portable storage). May it die a quick death.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>As for its use as a hard drive, expect Apple to be sued by multiple music labels, as well as music studios, over this feature in the coming days. The Creative Nomad could have had this feature 1.5 years ago, but did not for a reason. Content producers do not want consumers to have access to an easy, fast, practical way to move around large amounts of data.</STRONG>

"If you want to sue us for this - you'd better sue Iomega, VST, and every mass storage drive vendor out there".

That is truly a ridiculous claim... "portable hard drives BAAAAD!!"

<STRONG>As for the "getting a movie from a friend" scenario, nope. That won't work. Unless your friend has a Mac (5% chance) and unless his Mac is one of the latest, ridiculously overpriced models with Firewire (maybe 0.1% chance) he won't be able to get the movie onto your iPod. If he has a CD burner however (more than 50% chance, according to latest industry statistics) he will be able to burn that movie and every other movie that you would like to see onto cheap 10 cent CDRs. And it will be EVEN FASTER than getting that very same file onto a Firewire enabled iPod. Imagine that.</STRONG>

Actually it won't be faster at all.

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>

Actually it won't be faster at all.</STRONG>

Let's do a calculation here.

Firewire has a max throughput of 400 megabits/sec. That's 50 megabytes/sec. There is NO WAY that the iPod will ever hit this max throughput, but let's imagine that it does.

Now let's compare this to CDRW drives. 24x CDRW drives are already under $100. Pretty much everyone who is anyone has a 24x CDRW drive these days. One of these drives can fill up a 650 megabyte CD in 3 minutes. So the speed is 650 / 3 = 216.66666 megabytes/sec.

50 versus 216 megabytes/sec? I'll take the CDRW anyday!

[nana2]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Let's do a calculation here.

Firewire has a max throughput of 400 megabits/sec. That's 50 megabytes/sec. There is NO WAY that the iPod will ever hit this max throughput, but let's imagine that it does.

Now let's compare this to CDRW drives. 24x CDRW drives are already under $100. Pretty much everyone who is anyone has a 24x CDRW drive these days. One of these drives can fill up a 650 megabyte CD in 3 minutes. So the speed is 650 / 3 = 216.66666 megabytes/sec.

50 versus 216 megabytes/sec? I'll take the CDRW anyday!</STRONG>

650/3= 216MB per MINUTE.
That's 3.6MB/sec.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Let me tackle this one point by point.

The Creative Nomad is the size of a CD player for a reason. All that extra volume serves to improve shock absorption. Over the coming days, expect unprecedented returns of iPods to retailers as the flimsy shell fails to adequately protect the fragile hard drive inside, and even the gentlest drops render the iPod unusable.

The use of Firewire is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE. Only the highest end Apples and PCs used in video production have Firewire. So whatever limited appeal the iPod may have had, it has even less of it because it does not use a universal, ubiquitous standard such as USB.

As for its use as a hard drive, expect Apple to be sued by multiple music labels, as well as music studios, over this feature in the coming days. The Creative Nomad could have had this feature 1.5 years ago, but did not for a reason. Content producers do not want consumers to have access to an easy, fast, practical way to move around large amounts of data.

As for the "getting a movie from a friend" scenario, nope. That won't work. Unless your friend has a Mac (5% chance) and unless his Mac is one of the latest, ridiculously overpriced models with Firewire (maybe 0.1% chance) he won't be able to get the movie onto your iPod. If he has a CD burner however (more than 50% chance, according to latest industry statistics) he will be able to burn that movie and every other movie that you would like to see onto cheap 10 cent CDRs. And it will be EVEN FASTER than getting that very same file onto a Firewire enabled iPod. Imagine that.

I won't comment on previous Apple products, but the iPod is a pathetic imitation. It steals ideas from Creative (Nomad) and Sony (jog dial) and makes a ridiculously expensive product solving problems others have solved years, years before, and for much cheaper (mp3 playback, portable storage). May it die a quick death.</STRONG>

1. Ah...so you've seen, felt and used an iPod, so you know for a fact that it has a flimsy shell?

2. EVERY SINGLE MAC has Firewire...from the cheapest iMac to the "highest end". This has been the case for at least 2 years.

3. Now you're really reaching...

4. Ummm sorry, but file transfer between hd's via Firewire is SCADS faster than ANY cd drive.

God, I hate having to respond to trolls...

[mmurray]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Dont you people have better things to do. I tried so hard to not post my opinion, but i cant help it YOU ARE ALL RETARD. First off the iPod isnt over price, so stop being cheap americans. The damn thing has 5gb of storage in a case no bigger than a deck of cards. Nomad has a 5gb, but its the size of a cd player and it sucks ass!! Dont you people see that? Its Firewire, which no other mp3 has! It can also be used as a hard drive!! People a hard drive!!! Lets say your at your friends house and he/she just showed you movie trailer that was really cool. You can hook the iPod up and take it home. Now thats worth 400 all by itself!!! I just dont understand how Apple lovers can bash great products and called them selves Apple fans. Its bull. Everytime Apple release something new there is always negative feedback even when the product is amazing. Apple has but out innovative products that amaze me everyday. We should thank Apple,because without them we would all be PC users.</STRONG>

I do thank Apple and I am pleased not to be a PC user. Thats why I am concerned when there is a possibility they have screwed up. If they screw up they get damaged and the chance of me ending up using a PC is increased !

The question isn't whether it's worth the price. If it was gold plated and diamond encrusted it would might be worth $10k but it might never sell. The question is will it sell enough that Apple will recover development costs and be deemed to have done something innovative and clever rather than something dumb. Is there a market to these devices given the constraint that they can only connect to Mac's? Thats what would worry me. There is not doubt they are very neat and I'll bet there are going to be lot of claims going into finance
departments saying

"Apple portable hard disk for backup while travelling (5 GB, iPOD) $399"

:-)

Michael

Originally posted by mmurray:
<STRONG>

There is not doubt they are very neat and I'll bet there are going to be lot of claims going into finance
departments saying

"Apple portable hard disk for backup while travelling (5 GB, iPOD) $399"

:-)

</STRONG>

No there won't. Serious businesses run on PC's, not Macs. Fruity artsy ad agencies (the only businesses that run on Macs) are too busy firing their employees and closing up shop these days to be able to afford new hardware.

[mmurray]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

No there won't. Serious businesses run on PC's, not Macs. Fruity artsy ad agencies (the only businesses that run on Macs) are too busy firing their employees and closing up shop these days to be able to afford new hardware.</STRONG>

Ah I understand. Apple has a new product out so its lets go
over to MacNN and amuse ourselves time :-)


Michael

[John B. Smith]

"wiggles" said

The Creative Nomad is the size of a CD player for a reason. All that extra volume serves to improve shock absorption. Over the coming days, expect unprecedented returns of iPods to retailers as the flimsy shell fails to adequately protect the fragile hard drive inside, and even the gentlest drops render the iPod unusable.

I'm sure. So now tell me, how many times has that happened to you? I beg your pardon? That's right! Now SIT DOWN!

[AGE]

WiGGLES is right about the firing in ad agencies.
In the end the ipod sux, there is a portable MP3 device that has 20 gig USB drive for $100 less and is pc and mac compatible.

Looks guys lets all stop calling each other retards, after all we all have macs. One thing you "blind mac" advocates need to understand is we were once like you, but got fed up with apple's arrogance in thinking they can release anything with a higher price tag and call it "affordable".

Look the may I see it is this, apple should never have over hyped a product so 1997-like and so boring as an mp3 player is.

MP3 players have been out for 4 years now, it isn't apple's market!

Apple should have atleast released an ipod that can playback QT movies, NOW THAT WOULD BE MORE APPLE-LIKE! Like that they can make it QT ONLY compatible so if windows ppl bought one they can use or be forced to dowwnload QT. Quicktime is FAR more important that sound jam..oops I mean ITUNES.


(note: AUDION pulverises itunes in everything, itunes 2 just got an equalizer lol) :o

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by AGE:
<STRONG>WiGGLES is right about the firing in ad agencies.
In the end the ipod sux, there is a portable MP3 device that has 20 gig USB drive for $100 less and is pc and mac compatible.

Looks guys lets all stop calling each other retards, after all we all have macs. One thing you "blind mac" advocates need to understand is we were once like you, but got fed up with apple's arrogance in thinking they can release anything with a higher price tag and call it "affordable".

Look the may I see it is this, apple should never have over hyped a product so 1997-like and so boring as an mp3 player is.

MP3 players have been out for 4 years now, it isn't apple's market!

Apple should have atleast released an ipod that can playback QT movies, NOW THAT WOULD BE MORE APPLE-LIKE! Like that they can make it QT ONLY compatible so if windows ppl bought one they can use or be forced to dowwnload QT. Quicktime is FAR more important that sound jam..oops I mean ITUNES.


(note: AUDION pulverises itunes in everything, itunes 2 just got an equalizer lol) :o</STRONG>

bzzzz. wrong answer. It's idiots like you who can't seem to understand that the iPod is 75% smaller than the nomad because it USES A $499 DRIVE! Sheesh, if you're too cheap or can't get it thru your skull, DON'T BUY ONE AND STOP WHINING.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Now let's compare this to CDRW drives. 24x CDRW drives are already under $100. Pretty much everyone who is anyone has a 24x CDRW drive these days.

</STRONG>

Umm, "everyone who is anyone has a 24x CDRW drive these days" but "no one has FireWire"?

Please wake up. There's coffee and fresh toast waiting.

Originally posted by Nebrie:
<STRONG>

bzzzz. wrong answer. It's idiots like you who can't seem to understand that the iPod is 75% smaller than the nomad because it USES A $499 DRIVE!</STRONG>

It's idiots like Apple that can't semm to understand that you just don't use such expensive components in a consumer appliance type of device.

The mp3 player market is tired and old. Every innovation that there is has already been made. You have your solid state 64 meg players, you have your CDR-based players, and then you have your HD-based players.

Each of these players has been proven to work at a certain price point, and not above this price point. This market is a mature and very well structured market.

When Apple comes into this market with a product that makes people yawn, and prices it completely out of what the market will bear when compared to competitive products, then it's Apple that comes out looking like an idiot.

[CAM]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

The mp3 player market is tired and old.

</STRONG>

Not any more!

iPod is SWEEET, it's going to sell like crazy!

[sirlexelot]

MP3 player market is tired and old?! Are you drunk, or just slow? I dare you to walk down any average city street, stop 10 people, and ask them to tell you what an mp3 player is. No, don't even ask them to name a specific one, or the various types. Just ask them what one is. You might get two people who know. Then ask them what a walkman is; now THAT is a tired market. MP3 players are a baby market, as young as DVD with a millionth of the advertising, and subsequently a millionth of the awareness/product refinement.

Yes, these devices have been around in one crappy form or another for a little while now. The mp3 compression standard has been around since approx. 1991, but when did you first find out about it? When it first technologically made sense for you to use it regularly - so too will be the situation with mp3 players. Apple is doing to mp3 players the same thing they did to digital video editing: takeing it out of obscurity and bringing it to the masses, letting them know that it actually exists. They should be praised for this, because it's when this is done that the average person will not only know what one is, but will want one.

As for price/feature comparison, the iPod is much more than worth its cost. And if it costs too much for you, feel FREE to blow $200 on a 128meg USB Rio, by ALL means. And if that's too much, go spend $100 on a 32meg player. And if that's too much, go spend $70 on a CD player. Or go buy a nomad for $250, and realize that it's not just the size of a discman, it's the size of the biggest discmans ever made, and notice that its battery life is miserable, its interface is poor, and USB is slooooooooooooooow when it comes to transferring those 1,000 mp3s.

The iPod is the first mp3 player that's actually worthwhile. No wonder it's expensive. And once the competetion finally catches up, they'll all drop in price. So everyone who's whining about the cost now can wait or go buy some useless flash RAM paper weight, and the rest of us will be loving our new iPods.

[FridgeMagnet]

The use of Firewire is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE. Only the highest end Apples and PCs used in video production have Firewire. So whatever limited appeal the iPod may have had, it has even less of it because it does not use a universal, ubiquitous standard such as USB.

Hmmm, if you haven't got a Mac with Firewire yet then I guess you're probably not in the best position to discuss new hardware. IMHO I think that the iPod has great potential, part of the beauty of owning a Mac is that because Apple make the hardware and the software they can make them talk to each other in a way no other manufacturer can. Do I care that the biegeville PC users can't use it? nah! I don't think it's overpriced, sure I'd love it to be cheaper, I'd love it to be free with a packet of Rice Krispies but it's not going to happen. I worked at a college for many years and the prices of the MiniDisc players that students had were phenomenal, but they all had them and it wasn't a rich college.

By the way, all my friends have Macs and all of them have Firewire, you might try upgrading your friends and your harware at the same time

I'm not trying to kiss apples butt here, but I think this product is pretty inovative, the technology is not new, but like the iMac, Apple have put it together in an elegant and attractive way. I was kind of hoping for a PDA but I don't think it's a good time to release one, it's not worth getting worked up about anyway, it is after all only a walkman on acid.

Do you think there are forums where people discuss toaster manufacturers latest offerings and people rant and rave about them? "damn it I thought they would release the extra capacity crumb tray and extra large browning knob for sure this time!"

iToast, now that would be sweet!!

[jguidroz]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>


The use of Firewire is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE. Only the highest end Apples and PCs used in video production have Firewire. </STRONG>

Well let's see, I have two macs with firewire. Two of my friends each have a firewire mac. My cousin has a firewire mac. The company he works for all have firewire macs. Some of my professors have firewire macs. Some labs on campus have firewire macs.

So yes NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: jguidroz ]

[3gg3]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>

650/3= 216MB per MINUTE.
That's 3.6MB/sec.</STRONG>

Minor detail. Perhaps this minor detail characterizes the poster's mindset. I notice he hasn't responded on the point.

Originally posted by jguidroz:
<STRONG>

Well let's see, I have two macs with firewire. Two of my friends each have a firewire mac. My cousin has a firewire mac. The company he works for all have firewire macs. Some of my professors have firewire macs. Some labs on campus have firewire macs.

So yes NO ONE HAS FIREWIRE.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: jguidroz ]</STRONG>

You're all part of the less than 5% of the population that has Firewire Macs.

Congratulations on being part of the smallest minority group there is.

Selling exclusively to the smallest minority group in the country is economically unsound, regardless of the quality of your product or lack thereof.

[OAW]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

You're all part of the less than 5% of the population that has Firewire Macs.

Congratulations on being part of the smallest minority group there is.

Selling exclusively to the smallest minority group in the country is economically unsound, regardless of the quality of your product or lack thereof.</STRONG>

Wiggles,

This is about the dumbest thing I've seen you say on this board since you started ranting against the iPod! If this were true, then every retailer in the world would be a mass marketer! Now you should have sense enough to know that this isn't true. Surely you've heard of the term niche marketing? Has it occurred to you that perhaps never intended this product to appeal to the masses? Weren't you listening when Apple said that the target market for this device were Mac owners with firewire ports?

Jeez .. if marketing to a numerically small group is "economically unsound", then I suppose Mercedes, BMV, Volvo, Rolex, Bose, Nakamichi, etc. are all going to close up shop real soon.

OAW

Originally posted by OAW:
<STRONG>

Jeez .. if marketing to a numerically small group is "economically unsound", then I suppose Mercedes, BMV, Volvo, Rolex, Bose, Nakamichi, etc. are all going to close up shop real soon.

OAW</STRONG>

There is a difference. ANYONE can buy a Mercedes, BMW, Rolex, or whatever. The only prerequisite is having enough money.

In stark contrast to this, in order to buy an iPod, you need to have a Firewire Mac first. It won't work without one.

Whereas you CAN buy a zillion mp3 players that already work with the computer you probably already have (PC or non-Firewire Mac).

Which mp3 player will most people likely buy?

On another note, I imagine that the profit margin on a Rolls Royce is slightly higher than that on an iPod, which is how Rolls Royce stays in business.

dude -

go away.

[str1]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

There is a difference. ANYONE can buy a Mercedes, BMW, Rolex, or whatever. The only prerequisite is having enough money.

In stark contrast to this, in order to buy an iPod, you need to have a Firewire Mac first. It won't work without one.

Whereas you CAN buy a zillion mp3 players that already work with the computer you probably already have (PC or non-Firewire Mac).

Which mp3 player will most people likely buy?

On another note, I imagine that the profit margin on a Rolls Royce is slightly higher than that on an iPod, which is how Rolls Royce stays in business.</STRONG>

God I hate the car analogies. I think this one would be more accurate if we were to think in terms of some "thing" for a high end car, since we're comparing a secondary product with a primary product here. Apple's primary product isn't the iPod.

Yes, the iPod is currently only for firewire equipped Macs, but we hear the same complaints you make every time Apple moves its hardware line forward. People get left behind. Same thing happened with the switch from SCSI to USB. What Apple *really* can't afford to do is support legacy equipment for too long. They have to leverage the powe of making the "whole widget" to move the platform forward.

Does it leave people out? Yes. Will they upgrade to keep up? Most of the time.

What's really interesting to me about all of this is the way that the "second thought" factor is working in favor of the iPod. It seems that after an initial BAH! response, everyone's beginning to rethink their initial reaction and realize that the thing is actually pretty cool, and is generally a good price for what you get.

Me, I'm dying to get one, but I'm going to wait to see if they offer different "versions" of it at reduced prices as we near Xmas.

Cheers
Scott

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>

650/3= 216MB per MINUTE.
That's 3.6MB/sec.</STRONG>

A 24x burner, burning 650 MB faster than a FireWire drive copying to/from a hard drive.... ??

LMAO !!!

Wiggles, you are SUCH a freakin idiot - even for a troll !!

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by FormerLurker:
<STRONG>

A 24x burner, burning 650 MB faster than a FireWire drive copying to/from a hard drive.... ??

LMAO !!!

Wiggles, you are SUCH a freakin idiot - even for a troll !!</STRONG>

I second that, stupid ****ing kids

Originally posted by 3gg3:
<STRONG>

Minor detail. Perhaps this minor detail characterizes the poster's mindset. I notice he hasn't responded on the point.</STRONG>

Indeed. An astute observation.

i don't think anyone should reply to anything wiggles says until he acknowledges his incredibly stupid error.

although now that i think about it...wiggles, have you ever even used a cd burner? i can't imagine anyone who has any experience with them being so incredibly stupid as to think you can burn a cd in three seconds. the preparing and closing of the disc takes longer than that. you can't even read an entire cd in three seconds.

then there's the matter of portability. carry around a 6.5 oz hard drive, or a stack of cds? i'm not a huge fan of the price, but it's worth the sum of its components so i can't complain.

wiggles, you're still annoying.

[itai195]

Why do we even bother humoring wiggles?

It's obvious he hasn't done enough research to see that the hard drive in the iPod is one of the most rugged portable drives ever made, and could easily withstand being dropped three feet.

I'm also curious to see what his opinion about his precious Nomad is, now that it's becoming clear Creative is going to use FIREWIRE (NOT USB) on future mp3 players. Nobody has firewire, even though it's estimated 7 million mac owners have it. Countless PC users who buy computers with the new Sound Blaster Audigy have it. Those who have bought from Sony and Compaq have had firewire for a while. Hell, even Microsoft wants to support firewire over USB.

[nana2]

Originally posted by str1:
<STRONG>
Yes, the iPod is currently only for firewire equipped Macs, but we hear the same complaints you make every time Apple moves its hardware line forward. People get left behind. Same thing happened with the switch from SCSI to USB. What Apple *really* can't afford to do is support legacy equipment for too long. They have to leverage the powe of making the "whole widget" to move the platform forward.
Cheers
Scott</STRONG>

SCSI is legacy? It's alive and kicking and faster and much more flexible in expandability. Cost is more. Replaced with USB? For what? USB is for low bandwidth devices like printers, keyboards, mice etc. The removal of built-in SCSI from Macs was the beginning of the end for the "professional" part of Apple's Pro lineup.

[nana2]

Originally posted by OAW:
<STRONG>
Jeez .. if marketing to a numerically small group is "economically unsound", then I suppose Mercedes, BMV, Volvo, Rolex, Bose, Nakamichi, etc. are all going to close up shop real soon.
OAW</STRONG>

Please don't use the word Bose and Mercedes, BMW and Rolex in the same sentence. Bose is purely about marketing, the actual speakers themselves are absolute crap. Cheap chipboard casings, a single driver that can cover the entire frequency range from mid-bass to high end LOL.

[str1]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>

SCSI is legacy? It's alive and kicking and faster and much more flexible in expandability. Cost is more. Replaced with USB? For what? USB is for low bandwidth devices like printers, keyboards, mice etc. The removal of built-in SCSI from Macs was the beginning of the end for the "professional" part of Apple's Pro lineup.</STRONG>

Yup. SCSI is legacy. No more adb/serial ports. Those were replaced with USB. No more SCSI ports. Those were replaced with firewire.

I don't know that it was "the beginning of the end for the 'professional' part of Apple's Pro lineup" any more than phasing out the 8" floppy was the end of anything. The technology changes. Apple has a tremendous advantage in being able to move its entire platform in one fell swoop.

I'm not saying that SCSI is bad or anything. I have a nice SCSI HD in my Quadra 650. I have a nice SCSI scanner. But you have to admit that since the ATA/66 and ATA/100 drives have come along, speed is a bit less of an issue than it has been in the past, and price is certainly in favor of the IDE drives.

And I know that SCSI is still widely used. I'm just saying that Apple (like many other computer manufacturers) is interested in real plug and play. They're interested in simplifying the user's experience as much as possible.

The iPod is a case-in-point. Plug it in. There you go. No muss, no fuss. No SCSI IDs to configure. No order-in-the-chain to mess with. Just plug it in.

Again, I see your point, but you have to admit that Apple is doing its darndest to move the platform to something else. And when the platform no longer features something, it becomes legacy.

Cheers
Scott

[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: str1 ]

[OAW]

Wiggles,

Surely you jest? You must be kidding?

Are you really this dense on a permanent basis, or is your obvious hostility to all things Apple merely causing you a temporary lapse in mental acuity? This is a prime example of talking out of both sides of your neck! Let me take a few moments to put your utter cluelessness on display ....

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

There is a difference. ANYONE can buy a Mercedes, BMW, Rolex, or whatever. The only prerequisite is having enough money.

In stark contrast to this, in order to buy an iPod, you need to have a Firewire Mac first. It won't work without one.</STRONG>

Like Henry Ford said about the Model T .... "You can have any color you want ... as long as it's black." In case that went over your head, let me clarify ....

The effective choice trumps the theoretical choice every time. Mercedes targets a demographic that consists of people with a certain household income. This household income requirement causes the target market to be about 2% of the entire eligible population of car buyers. Less than Apple's market share of the computer market I might add ... but I digress. You are trying to intimate that "anyone" can buy a Mercedes ... it's only a matter of this relately "minor" thing called money that stands in one's way. The fact of the matter is that 98% of the population can't afford a Mercedes ... period! Sure, in "theory" ... anyone can buy a Mercedes. All you have to do is come up with the money. What you apparently don't realize is that in "theory" ... anyone can buy an iPod just as well. All you have to do is buy a firewire equipped Mac to go with it. Unless of course you think that once someone buys a computer they are forever bound to it and completely unable to buy another one! Now which do you think is easier for the average person to do .... come up with the money for a new Mercedes, or come up with the money for an iPod and a new Mac? The bottom line is that Mercedes is not casting a broader net for potential customers as you imply. They are simply going after their small target market just like Apple is.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Whereas you CAN buy a zillion mp3 players that already work with the computer you probably already have (PC or non-Firewire Mac).</STRONG>

Just like you can buy a zillion cars that fit within your budget. Duh!

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>
Which mp3 player will most people likely buy?</STRONG>

The one that they best suits their needs and budget. Has it occurred to you that perhaps Apple is not trying to be the largest seller of MP3 players? Mercedes is not trying to be Ford! For those who don't like car analogies .... Bose is not trying to be Kenwood! And Apple is not trying to be Rio! Why do you assume that they are or should be?

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>
On another note, I imagine that the profit margin on a Rolls Royce is slightly higher than that on an iPod, which is how Rolls Royce stays in business.</STRONG>

A very keen observation of the obvious! One is a handmade, ridiculously expensive motor vehicle. The other is a relatively high-end consumer electronics device. Having said that, the fundamental flaw in your and many other naysayer's argument is that it is based upon the following erroneous premises ....

A. In order to be successful, a company must target a product to the mass market and manage to top line measures (e.g. Gross Sales, Unit Sales, Market Share, etc.).

B. In order to be successful, a company must price its product at a point that the majority consider "affordable".

C. One's personal product needs and price sensitivity equates to that of the target market.


The fact of the matter is that Apple is a company that manages to bottom line measures (e.g. Profitability, ROI, etc.) and prices its products accordingly. The issue is not whether every Mac user wants an iPod or can afford an iPod. This issue is whether there are enough Mac users who appreciate what the iPod has to offer and are willing to pay for it in order to make it a profitable endeavor. Only time will tell.

OAW

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: OAW ]

Apple is so pathetic that they can't even satisfy their "loyal" user base.

But you didn't need me to tell you that.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>Apple is so pathetic that they can't even satisfy their "loyal" user base.

But you didn't need me to tell you that.</STRONG>

Absolutely right. No one needed you to tell them that. Why don't you tell someone else? That might lead to something gratifying for you.