[drainyoo]

Why does a Ferrari cost a **** load of money? Because its top of the line. If you want top of the line products that are innovative and stylish, then you're going to pay for it. Dont complain that Apple prices are to high. If you are to cheap to be an Apple user then become a PC user. This is the reason why the Cube bomded. That was an amazing design, but all you people could do is complain about how expensive it was and now we dont have the cube. All because of you cheap bastards. Get a JOB!!!!!

[vvedge]

two responses... "ouch!" and "right on!"

[nana2]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Why does a Ferrari cost a **** load of money? Because its top of the line. If you want top of the line products that are innovative and stylish, then you're going to pay for it. Dont complain that Apple prices are to high. If you are to cheap to be an Apple user then become a PC user. This is the reason why the Cube bomded. That was an amazing design, but all you people could do is complain about how expensive it was and now we dont have the cube. All because of you cheap bastards. Get a JOB!!!!!</STRONG>

Right, what a genius. Only people with $hitloads of money deserve to own a Mac. Value for money should be thrown out of the window. Direct that your salary is to be paid directly into Lord Stevies coffers.

[Thunderbird]

The problem with the Cube is that it was too expensive for what it was... You could buy a faster G4 tower with a better video card and a second processor for several hundred dollars less than the first Cubes. Plus, you could add more RAM and a second hard drive to the G4 tower.

The extra money you were spending on the Cube was just for the size of the thing. What the marketing geniouses at Apple didn't realize was that most Mac users would've preferred the speed and expandibility over the form factor. If the Cube had been marketed properly, it would've been priced similar to a mid-high end iMac. Because when you compared the Cube to a similarly priced G4 tower, the tower won every category except size.

You make the mistake of assuming that the Cube failed because people were comparing it to similar Pee Cee's. In reality, the Cube failed because it couldn't compete with similar Macintosh offerings.

Ferrari's are worth every penny because they look great AND have incredible performance. The Cube just looked great. It didn't have unbeatable performance.

[vvedge]

Originally posted by Thunderbird:
<STRONG>Ferrari's are worth every penny because they look great AND have incredible performance. The Cube just looked great. It didn't have unbeatable performance.</STRONG>

Your point? You're saying this iPod doesn't have unbeatable peformance?

C'mon, what part of firewire can't get through y'alls heads?

So, lets see... try and fill up 6 gigs with a USB port, make 10 MDs in real time.... or 5 gigs in 10 minutes over 400 mbps?

I CALL THAT PERFORMANCE.

[Thunderbird]

vvedge,

I said nothing of the iPod in my previous commentary. I was talking about the Cube.

[drainyoo]

Compared to a PC it did. You were paying that price for the Cube because of its design. A whole computer was put inside a 1ft box and did make any noise. The Cube wasnt aimed for high end video or audio. It was for the avereage joe who has a sense of style. Performance wasnt the issue, any Mac has greta performance even a G3. it was all about stlye and people couldnt see that. they we worried about MHZ and RAM and GB. The cube wasnt about that. people didnt understand it so it bombed.

[applenut1]

only problem with your statements is that macs are neither top of the line or innovative (for the most part). the only thing you were correct about is paying top dollar for style

the iMac was innovative 3 years ago. not anymore
the PowerMac G4 was innovative a long time ago. not anymore (with the possible exception of the Superdrive/iDVD combo)
Powerbook G4- style innovation but little to no technical innovation
iBook- see above

iPod is IMO all three, stylish, innovative and top of the line. but it should not be 399. I don't know the cost but I am sure Apple did not WANT to make it debut at 399 but rather 299. the drive used in the iPod is brand new and was announced very recently. It likely costs a bundle.

[Thunderbird]

You know, it is possible to have limited funds and still be an Apple lover. The entry level iMac costs only $799.00. Hardly an upper class only investment. You overlook the fact that the average selling price for an Apple computer last quarter was under $1500. These things are computers, not Ferrari's. They are consumer marketed items, and if Apple wants to attract a mass consumer market, then they need to price their wares according to the budget of their target market.

Oh, BTW - my first Mac cost over $6,000. I certainly have the means to buy the new iPod, but at $400 I can think of much better things to do with my money.

[drainyoo]

Originally posted by vvedge:
<STRONG>

Your point? You're saying this iPod doesn't have unbeatable peformance?

C'mon, what part of firewire can't get through y'alls heads?

So, lets see... try and fill up 6 gigs with a USB port, make 10 MDs in real time.... or 5 gigs in 10 minutes over 400 mbps?

I CALL THAT PERFORMANCE.</STRONG>

VVEDGE understands me. We need more apple lovers like you

[drainyoo]

Originally posted by applenut1:
<STRONG>only problem with your statements is that macs are neither top of the line or innovative (for the most part). the only thing you were correct about is paying top dollar for style

the iMac was innovative 3 years ago. not anymore
the PowerMac G4 was innovative a long time ago. not anymore (with the possible exception of the Superdrive/iDVD combo)
Powerbook G4- style innovation but little to no technical innovation
iBook- see above

iPod is IMO all three, stylish, innovative and top of the line. but it should not be 399. I don't know the cost but I am sure Apple did not WANT to make it debut at 399 but rather 299. the drive used in the iPod is brand new and was announced very recently. It likely costs a bundle.</STRONG>

You make me sick. Ok so DELL and Compaq are. You ****ing asshole.

[Thunderbird]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Compared to a PC it did. You were paying that price for the Cube because of its design. A whole computer was put inside a 1ft box and did make any noise. The Cube wasnt aimed for high end video or audio. It was for the avereage joe who has a sense of style. Performance wasnt the issue, any Mac has greta performance even a G3. it was all about stlye and people couldnt see that. they we worried about MHZ and RAM and GB. The cube wasnt about that. people didnt understand it so it bombed.</STRONG>

Ah, but here is where you are missing the point. The Cube was a marketing failure. Nobody is arguing that it wasn't a great design. But, Apple is in the business of selling computers and making money. As a stockholder, I don't want the company run by people with a starving artist mentality. You have to build items that people will actually buy at the price that you will be profitable selling it to them.

In the case of the Cube, customers found value and performance to be more important that the fact that it fit in an 8" cube. Plus, if you are going to market something as a magical work of art, you better make damn sure that the thing doesn't have "cracks" or "mold lines" in the case.

The Cube wasn't aimed at the average Joe. The average Joe bought an iMac or a tower. The Cube was aimed at a special, but ultimately entirely too small group of consumers. That is why the Cube is dead. Apple underestimated the number of Macintosh lovers that were willing to sacrifice value and performance for style.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Thunderbird ]

[Thunderbird]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Compared to a PC it did. </STRONG>

Again... we weren't comparing it to PC's... We were comparing it to other offerings from Apple, and the other offerings were better suited to the needs of most Macintosh users.

[BZ]

Right on!

I buy macs. I don't build my own PeeCees for under $1,000 with a 4GHz Athalon, and a board I picked out of bin of motherboards. I buy quality hardware with great software that works. Simply put. It works.

Do I pay more for Apple stuff than for Dell or Gateway? Yeah.

This is like iBook, or the TiG4 or any of Apple's products. It is well designed, very competitive and worth every penny.

Yeah, it would be GREAT if it they paid ME to have the iPod. Hell, they should buy my a 100 CDs to put on it. Oh, and a TiG4 fully loaded so I can rip them.

Wake up people. You are the same ones arguing the we pay for quality. So pay for it. Just because it is not a computer does not mean it does have all of the quality that all the others are lacking.

You are getting iTunes for FREE! Come on, that alone is worth $50.

Like I said in another post, a lot of people are gonna want this and pay for it. Wait if you want to pay less. 6 months from now it will be $349 and will be 10GB. But, I will have the first and will be enjoying for the next six months.

BZ

[BZ]

DP

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: BZ ]

[AGE]

For starters apple is NO Ferrari!
A Ferrari against any other car is obviously 10000000X better, a mac against a great pc maker box using say an NForce motherboard is ARGUABLY better...
Stop using the car analogies, you are starting to sound like the arrogant mac sales ppl that just want your money then screw u when theres a problem.


So your saying everything apple makes is worth it.
Everything apple releases has to have a %30 profit margin.
So what ever they make it will be %30 more expensive than the rest.
The only thing apple has ever released that is truely worth its price are the new iBOOKS and OSX.

For goods sakes even the pippin when released costed close to $1000 aus when consoles were $200. APPLE is driven by hardware strict profit margins, it isnt always worth it, dont be a fool, and remember not everyone has enough money to keep up with apple's expensive attitudes.

Try buying ram from an apple shop, thats the best example...But wait thats Ferrari ram....Im not having a go at you Drainyoo but remember alot of us have been following apple since the dark years and are sick of their overpricing.

[marcUK]

I think iPod is great, but am not buying one yet. However i think alot of people are missing the point here.

This thing is called iPod. Why?

IF APPLE INTENDED THIS TO BE AN MP3 PLAYER IT WOULD BE CALLED iMP3

iPod is a general term. MP3 playback is SIMPLY ITS FIRST APPLICATION,
It has a SCREEN and a HD and a FIREWIRE PORT and UPGRADABLE FIRMWARE.

Go figure the rest yourselves.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: marcUK ]

[vvedge]

look, "comparable" PCs can be better and cheaper...

But its not hard to see where the extra 1000 or 2000 goes when buying a G4 tower or Ti-book...

The design itself is money that's worth giving a bit to Ive and his team.

And just the whole computing experience, how it all comes together... worth the money...

If money's an issue... get a PC...get a Rio.. no one's forcing you to get a mac or an iPod... Apple owes us nothing... I don't get that argument or sentiment, we buy their computers cuz we decide to. There's no quid quo pro in it.

(You know, the most ridiculous arguement that kids in my school make about macs is, "the school is too cheap to buy PCs"... then I give them some numbers, that really blows their minds)

[AGE]

Viv what Im saying is like this -

Apple needs to make 30% on all hardware so with that they make 3 models, now you cant tell me a g4 800mhz is worth $1500 more than a 733mhz, so thats 67 mhz = $1500?

I like apple for its OS, I couldnt give a sh17 about its hardware nomore, PC boxes outdo macs now, ITS A FACT.
PC's to me while driven by windows suck.
I buy for the OS, I wish apple would just go software and make osx for all chips. Thats my opinion.

Apple could atleast bring their entire line down $700 and still make a nice profit but they dont.

[Face Ache]

Catch-22.

Artists "think different".

Society doesn't richly reward artists.

Apple makes computers for artists.

Apple computers have to be cutting edge for artists.

Apple computers are therefore expensive...

So artists can't afford Apple computers.

Then rich tossers get on forums and tell artists to think more like them.

It's a long life with plenty of ups and downs. I could afford a Mac last year, but not this year (or probably next). I only hope that drainyoo loses his job and has to sell his Mac to finance a cure for a rare venereal disease. Then he might get a little empathy in him.

[AGE]

Face correct!
Im an Artist, most of the ppl here are apple newbies and bought apple cause they wanted to be cool, these are the same ppl who will buy Amiga next year if it becomes cool.
These are the same ppl who use macs as hobby computers.

Many here are also graphic artsist whose large advertising firm just paid $15,000 for 3 new macs... Artists are what kept apple alive in the dark years, these so called hobbiests were using pc's back then and were drawn to apple by the pretty imacs. (not saying anyone in particular but u know who u r)

[suprz]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
<STRONG>Why does a Ferrari cost a **** load of money? Because its top of the line. If you want top of the line products that are innovative and stylish, then you're going to pay for it. Dont complain that Apple prices are to high. If you are to cheap to be an Apple user then become a PC user. This is the reason why the Cube bomded. That was an amazing design, but all you people could do is complain about how expensive it was and now we dont have the cube. All because of you cheap bastards. Get a JOB!!!!!</STRONG>

get a clue......idiot

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: suprz ]

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by AGE:
<STRONG>Face correct!
Im an Artist, most of the ppl here are apple newbies and bought apple cause they wanted to be cool, these are the same ppl who will buy Amiga next year if it becomes cool.
These are the same ppl who use macs as hobby computers.

Many here are also graphic artsist whose large advertising firm just paid $15,000 for 3 new macs... Artists are what kept apple alive in the dark years, these so called hobbiests were using pc's back then and were drawn to apple by the pretty imacs. (not saying anyone in particular but u know who u r)</STRONG>

I'm a fellow graphic artist. Macs are a standard in my industry. Plain and Simple. Because of us, apple will always survive. We killed the cube because it wasn't accepted in design houses. Apple built the imac and ibook for the lower end market.

I want to pay more for a better computer that is easier to use and better looking. I would rather have the flower power imac than the 2 ghz p4 dell.

A good quote for most of you here.

"The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him."
Stanislaw Jerszy Lec (1909- )

Given the same amount of money, I can build a faster, higher quality, more silent, more reliable, better looking, more stylish PC, with better upgradeability and more software available for it than any Mac.

The market is awash with designer PC cases. You have the transparent cases, translucent cases, cube cases, desktop cases, slim cases, even iMac lookalike cases. You have your LCD screens, from 13'' all the way to 28'', in white, black, and a bunch of translucent colors. Every design advantage that Apple supposedly had over the PC at some point or another, it no longer has.

I have no idea why anyone would want to buy a Mac. Maybe in 1997. But not anymore.

[derbs]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>Given the same amount of money, I can build a faster, higher quality, more silent, more reliable, better looking, more stylish PC, with better upgradeability and more software available for it than any Mac.

The market is awash with designer PC cases. You have the transparent cases, translucent cases, cube cases, desktop cases, slim cases, even iMac lookalike cases. You have your LCD screens, from 13'' all the way to 28'', in white, black, and a bunch of translucent colors. Every design advantage that Apple supposedly had over the PC at some point or another, it no longer has.

I have no idea why anyone would want to buy a Mac. Maybe in 1997. But not anymore.</STRONG>

jeez.... *YAWN*

what a troll

you've actually managed to prove a point in your inane ramblings... we are with Apple because they innovate, not imitate

we are with Apple because they innovate, not imitate[/QB]

Apple released iPod, a Creative Nomad knockoff, 1.5 years after Creative, and at a $200 premium. The original Creative Nomad with the 6 Gb drive (still 1 Gb more than the iPod) currently sells for $199. The only differences that the iPod has from the Creative Nomad is a Firewire port and a jog dial which Sony pioneered in its PDAs. So Apple stole the mp3-player-with-a-hard-disk idea from Creative, and the jog dial idea from Sony.

Is this an example of Apple innovation? The Apple iPod is the most pathetic imitation there is.

[RevEvs]

Wiggles, I may be wrong here, but how many of those PC's cases and such are up to the same quality as Apple's ? The design and quality of materials used by Apple is far superior, and there's all the little touches they put in, little touches make a good product a brilliant product.

Anyway, as for being a cheap bastard and such, i can afford Apple stuff quite well, so maybe i'm a bit off the mark here, but I've always thought of Apple products not for the 'rest' of us, but for the 'elite'. I quite like it now, there's the iMac and iBook aimed at PC level consumers, and then the Towers and Powerbook still there for the 'elite'. If Apple go cheap they'll lose the touch of class they have and what distinguishes them from the rest!

RevEvs

Originally posted by RevEvs:
<STRONG>Wiggles, I may be wrong here, but how many of those PC's cases and such are up to the same quality as Apple's ?</STRONG>

Obviously you are basing your opinion of PCs on the $299 bargain basement emachine PCs. And, sure, there is no shortage of cheap PCs using lower quality parts, including lower quality cases. But you failed to read and comprehend what I wrote above.

I said that, GIVEN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY, I CAN BUILD A PC THAT IS BETTER THAN A MAC IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY. Yes, that includes a better quality case, the best cases in the industry, period. (Inwin, Enermax or Fong Kai) That includes a faster CPU, both in megahertz rating and perceived performance. (The newly released Athlon MP CPUs) That includes the best sound in the industry, period, including full Dolby Surround Sound, optical in, optical out, and every little gizmo you can think of. (Creative Audigy) That includes the most ergonomic keyboard and mouse money can buy, including multiple mouse buttons (5-6 buttons), multidirectional scroll switch and optical base. (Microsoft keyboard and mice, the one thing that they do very well) That includes more compatibility with more operating systems and more software than any other chipset in the history of computing.

I cannot imagine a single respect in which a Mac can trump a similarly priced PC built by someone who knows what he is doing. (And no, Dell doesn't count.)

If you can, let me know. I am not holding my breath.

[BZ]

Again, if price were the only point I would not be typing this on a G4.

When I buy products I look at:

Innovation: Does this product do something that others do not? Is my cell phone smaller or better than other with more feature?

Design: Did the company that built this machine think about the user? Did they put the buttons in the right place? Did they include good software? Did they think at all about the user interface?

Coolness: Yup. Coolness. Is this product a cool product that I will want to show my friends. A TiG4, a Palm m505, a DVD player, etc.

Integration: Can this product work with things I already own? Can my Palm hotsync? Can my DVD player plug into my stereo with the right connections?

Use: Am I going to use this product? How often? After six months of use will I look back and feel like I got my $xxx worth out of it? I try to compare it to movie ticket prices to see the time/money ratio.

Value: Which is the sum (for me) of all the above points. Will it be valuable to me? Will I want to upgrade?

As an illustration:

- I bought an 5 CD player in the 80s. It cost me like $400-500 for damn thing. I loved it. Used it for years. It was expensive and cutting edge at the time but that is how I buy (and how Apple is positioning this)

- I bought the second and forth generation of MD players from Sony. That has been a mixed bag. I use it for 6 months and usually stop using it. It is too hard to transfer music, it has to use another machine in my house and is cumbersome. (BTW this is why the iPod is great)

- I bought one of the first Palms (500 Professional?) I used it and have never looked back. I have bought every Palm I can get my hands on. They are not just address books but parts of my life. They carry the data that I cannot fit anywhere else. When I first had one every one said "Hundreds of dollars for THAT? I can just use my filofax for 1/4 the price". Years later all of those people are using Palms.

Yes it is expensive but you will always pay a premium for quality, design, integration and over value. You paid for it in the iMac, the iBook, the TiG4 and the Quicksilver. Just b/c it is not a computer does not mean that is should not hold the same price premium that EVERY OTHER APPLE PRODUCT DOES. Remember, we are paying for innovation and integration. I am paying for it and will.

At the end of the day, when you go look at buying JUST THE DRIVE that fits in the iPod (I think from Toshiba) you see it costs... $399. So wait, that means I can either get just a small firewire 5GB drive for $399 or I can get:

An iPod
- 5GB Drive
- 10 Hour battery
- iTunes 2 syncing
- Skip protection
- Very cool LCD and interface
- That plays MP3s AND can act as a 5GB drive (yes, you can even start up off it)

That to me, is incredible value. You are getting all of that for FREE!

BZ

<STRONG>At the end of the day, when you go look at buying JUST THE DRIVE that fits in the iPod (I think from Toshiba) you see it costs... $399. So wait, that means I can either get just a small firewire 5GB drive for $399 or I can get blah blah blah</STRONG>

This is false.

The retail price of a Toshiba drive may be $399 but the wholesale price is clearly much, much less, especially when purchased in thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of units. It may be $299 or even $199 when purchased in such huge quantities.

Besides, paying $399 for a 5 gig 2.5'' drive is just stupid. 5 gig 2.5'' drives are easily available for well under $100.

Like I said above, a well-built PC using quality parts is going to give you all the innovation, quality, style, connectivity, convergence, and whatever other fluff words you are looking for. New technologies come to the PC long before they make it to the Mac. Creative was shipping rewriteable DVD drives years before Apple even thought of putting them in their machines. You can get a Dolby Surround Sound PC today. Can you get a Dolby Surround Sound Mac? Didn't think so. Can you choose what color your tower PC is going to be? With a Mac, you're stuck with gray or quicksilver or whatever color Jobs decided would go well with your CPU. With a PC, you can pick and choose from an infinitude of colors and designs. Just go to www.coolcases.com and be awed at the kind of selection that Mac users can only dream of.

Apple has long been left in the dust. This overpriced, underfeatured mp3 player is one of their dying gasps. RIP Apple.

[nana2]

Just a quick correction, Creative sold DVD-RAM drives which are incompatible pieces of crap, well on the way to extinction. Of course first generation DVD-RW drives could be said to be going the same way. Bring on DVD+R!

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Just go to www.coolcases.com </STRONG>

These cases are for serious high-quality server-level PCs and may not appeal to fruity Mac fans. (And I say that with the best of intentions)

For people desiring more fruity PC cases, I invite you to check out Suntek, at www.suntekgroup.com/alpha2000.htm - Suntek is a manufacturer of colorful, innovative, novelty PC cases.

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>Just a quick correction, Creative sold DVD-RAM drives which are incompatible pieces of crap, well on the way to extinction. Of course first generation DVD-RW drives could be said to be going the same way. Bring on DVD+R!</STRONG>

All rewriteable DVD standards are incompatible with one another. None of them is crap, because none of them has yet claimed market superiority. Whichever standard PC users eventually adopt will become the standard. The standard that Apple has chosen is very much irrelevant.

[nana2]

DVD-RAM has absolutely nothing to do with DVD standards at all really.
The choice will be between DVD-RW and DVD+RW. Hopefully next gen burners will support both formats. Otherwise +RW gets my dollars.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: nana2 ]

[BZ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>The retail price of a Toshiba drive may be $399 but the wholesale price is clearly much, much less, especially when purchased in thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of units. It may be $299 or even $199 when purchased in such huge quantities.</STRONG>

Well, when you own a multi billion dollar business that can buy in bulk you too can make your own MP3 player for that price. To make the comparison you would have to find out what it would cost to buy thousands of iPods. I am comparing retail to retail which is what a price comparison is if we are buying retail.


<STRONG>
Besides, paying $399 for a 5 gig 2.5'' drive is just stupid. 5 gig 2.5'' drives are easily available for well under $100.</STRONG>

2.5"? You sure about that? It is actually a 1.8" Which retail for $399.

[nana2]

Originally posted by BZ:
<STRONG>
2.5"? You sure about that? It is actually a 1.8" Which retail for $399.</STRONG>

It appears to be a hard drive with a Type II PCMCIA form factor. Now if it could be removed from the iPod, that would be sweeet

[satchmo]

We'll find out in about 4 months whether the iPod is overpriced or not.

However, I think one should not only consider the competion in comparing prices but the realities of the economic climate.
Is the average Joe today going to drop $400 easily? I think not.

[BZ]

Originally posted by satchmo:
<STRONG>
However, I think one should not only consider the competion in comparing prices but the realities of the economic climate.
Is the average Joe today going to drop $400 easily? I think not.</STRONG>

The Average Joe never bought an iMac or iBook either. They called up Dell or Gateway or eMachines and said "gimme wana doos cheapo boxes".

Apple knows its audience.

The "Must-haves" will buy it now (that would be me).
The "Might-Haves" will put it on their x-mas list.
The "Maybe-haves" will wait for the price to drop in January
All the others are the 95%, don't want an MP3 Player or wait for rev2. But, you have to have the first set of people to buy it so there will be a rev2. I will buy on Rev1 and Rev3.

BZ

Originally posted by BZ:
<STRONG>

The Average Joe never bought an iMac or iBook either. They called up Dell or Gateway or eMachines and said "gimme wana doos cheapo boxes".</STRONG>

This comment is SO ignorant it's not even funny.

There are PC manufacturers that build high quality powerhouses using the latest technology no Mac can ever match in its wildest dreams.

Try visiting Alienware (http://www.alienware.com/), Falcon Northwest (http://www.falcon-nw.com/) or Voodoo Computers (http://www.voodoo.ca/home.htm) sometime.

These companies build machines that cost anywhere from $1000 all the way up to $20,000, to suit your needs, budget and sense of fashion.

An Alienware machine is a thing of beauty! See and weep!

Where else can you get a machine with Dolby surround sound, 6-button eight-directional optical mouse, gigahertz+ CPU, DDR memory, Geforce3 GPU? NOT APPLE THATS FOR SURE! HAHAHAHA!

Apples are overpriced, underpowered toys for fools who don't know any better.

[Nebagakid]

talk about ignorant,

OHHHH look a pretty multi button moused, why dont you use freakin' keyboard shortcuts or CAN YOU NOT READ WHAT IT SAYS ON THE KEYBOARD!!!!!!


i think someone should leave, namely you

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>I said that, GIVEN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY, I CAN BUILD A PC THAT IS BETTER THAN A MAC IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY. ...

I cannot imagine a single respect in which a Mac can trump a similarly priced PC built by someone who knows what he is doing. (And no, Dell doesn't count.)

If you can, let me know. I am not holding my breath.</STRONG>

Only if your time putting together the PC is worth $0 are you going to come out ahead.

Your time's worth nothing to you?

[nana2]

A PC can be put together in less than 1 hour. Another hour at the most to install software. 2 hours. A short evenings work.

[OAW]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

This comment is SO ignorant it's not even funny.

There are PC manufacturers that build high quality powerhouses using the latest technology no Mac can ever match in its wildest dreams.

Try visiting Alienware (http://www.alienware.com/), Falcon Northwest (http://www.falcon-nw.com/) or Voodoo Computers (http://www.voodoo.ca/home.htm) sometime.

These companies build machines that cost anywhere from $1000 all the way up to $20,000, to suit your needs, budget and sense of fashion.

An Alienware machine is a thing of beauty! See and weep!

Where else can you get a machine with Dolby surround sound, 6-button eight-directional optical mouse, gigahertz+ CPU, DDR memory, Geforce3 GPU? NOT APPLE THATS FOR SURE! HAHAHAHA!

Apples are overpriced, underpowered toys for fools who don't know any better.</STRONG>

The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in order to take advantage of this you do have to "know what you are doing". How many consumers out there know how to custom-build PCs? Sure, you can save a lot of money if you serve as the general contractor on your home-building project .... but how many people know how to build a house? Not many .. and that's why they hire a general contractor! Similarly, most people go to the major computer manufacturers so they don't have to deal with the hassle of "doing it yourself". Besides, pointing out some relatively obscure PC manufacturers that 99% of the world's population have never even heard of is a stretch at best!

BTW, are you the same Wiggles from STL?

OAW

Originally posted by OAW:
<STRONG>

The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in order to take advantage of this you do have to "know what you are doing".</STRONG>

Either that, or you have to contract the work out to someone who knows what they are doing. I personally build my own machines, but you don't have to. You can pick a company with know-how.

Gateway, Dell, emachines don't count. These are mass-market sellers that cater to the lowest common denominator.

Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Voodoo do count. These people build well-balanced high-quality high-performance machines for those who demand the absolute best for their money.

Call up any one of these companies, tell them how much you have to spend, for what purposes you intend to use your computer, and they will fax you back a quote for a machine that contains the highest quality components IN THE INDUSTRY for your price point.

There are no doubt countless other companies that cater to power-hungry PC users, but these three I quoted above consistently get the best reviews for building the highest-quality, best-balanced systems.

I am not affiliated with any one of them. I'm just a guy who knows the industry far better than any one of you Macheads.

P.S. What's STL?

Originally posted by OAW:
<STRONG>

Besides, pointing out some relatively obscure PC manufacturers that 99% of the world's population have never even heard of is a stretch at best!
</STRONG>

So being famous is more important than being high quality?

Dell is more famous than Apple. Is Dell a better company to buy from?

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Voodoo do count. These people build well-balanced high-quality high-performance machines for those who demand the absolute best for their money.
...
I'm just a guy who knows the industry far better than any one of you Macheads.

</STRONG>

Well, I don't think purchasers of Apple product are necessarily getting the worst or most mediocre for their money so it's splitting hairs over the bleeding edge of technology. Following that "industry" is not something that most people, be they fans of Mac or PC, would care to bother with. Many congratulations on your expertise.

I notice that the game-playing focus for those computer makers is fairly pronounced. This also seems to be the market segment that's in a hurry to aggressively bathe their genitals in broken glass if they spend a single week removed from the inner circle of fastest 640MB video card owners. If you want to get into a lather over performance relative to gaming, as I sense most (but not all) argumentative PCheadz do, suit yourself. For most, a dedicated gaming console, replaced every 2 to 3 years will do the trick. I know a guy who left the Mac platform for games. Whatever. His loss. His gain. His needs are fundamentally different from mine. Sony, Sega and Nintendo have got me covered.

The point that you're fixating on is only rooted in what hardware is the absolute pinnacle, not what the _overall_ quality of the experience is. For Macusers, that's an enormous issue. If you like/love Windows, good for you. I don't. A lot of people I know don't. I think they're right. I think I'm right. But it's merely our prerogative. All these boxes you're pointing people to must run an OS that they feel is a horrible bear to use. You undoubtedly do not agree but that changes nothing when someone decides they think Windows sucks. That's what they think. Period. A relevant word that gets used a lot and unfairly dismissed (I feel) by PC users is ELEGANCE. Most PC users I talk to think that, as far as Mac users are concerned, it's just synonymous with arrogance. Untrue. The Mac is elegant. The hardware and the software have a premium placed on aesthetic concerns. In comparison, the PC cases and software that try to compete come off like the fiberglass encrusted Hondas that all the Chinese teenagers in my neighborhood like to drive around in. They think it's cool. I think it's distasteful and ugly. Two different views.

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>Given the same amount of money, I can build a faster, higher quality, more silent, more reliable, better looking, more stylish PC, with better upgradeability and more software available for it than any Mac.

The market is awash with designer PC cases. You have the transparent cases, translucent cases, cube cases, desktop cases, slim cases, even iMac lookalike cases. You have your LCD screens, from 13'' all the way to 28'', in white, black, and a bunch of translucent colors. Every design advantage that Apple supposedly had over the PC at some point or another, it no longer has.

I have no idea why anyone would want to buy a Mac. Maybe in 1997. But not anymore.</STRONG>

Oh, great, another PC expert who doesn't know Jack about a Mac, and thinks the reason that all of us deluded Mac addicts buy from Apple is for the pretty hardware....



The cool, innovative, beautiful hardware is just a fringe benefit. The reasons we buy a Mac is that the OS just plain WORKS and we can use to get our work done. We swear BY our computers.... not AT them. We live in a world of "creative productivity" that you have never dreamed of.

It's the OS, stupid! Here's a quarter - go buy a clue!

[AGE]

DRAINYOO, you watch apple wont make this ipod pc compatible cause like that it blocks out the competetion and thus apple can then rip us off. If it were pc compatible pc ppl wouldnt take the huge price and buy the alternatives. Apple puts the prices up cause they know us apple ppl have no alternative and no choice. THATS A FACT!

[AGE]

Look guys WIGGLES is right in some aspects on being able to build a pc as powerful as a mac, I have had to agree with that from what I have seen in a 3d aspect.

Wiggles u r wrong about pc quality though, I have seen alot of pc cases and they are still ugly and cheap and non functional, mac cases are still the best with Armani (pc vendor) being the only pc case thats aluminium and good to upgrade to.
The reason why we buy apple is because it works, and it works with hardly any conflicts.
PC';s are just too fiddly to be taken serious in a world like advertising cause we need quick turn arounds and less stress, i have used pc's in this industry and they crash over stupid stuff and get the wierdest problems just when u need to get something out asap!

All adobe products work like crap on these NT boxes, NT is the only os right now that supports dual cpu. What a joke gimme a mac os9 anyday.

But Wiggles is right about ipod not being original too, we all know apple kisses sony's ass, so they tried to copy em or did they strike a deal with them. if i recall last Tokyo macworld steve said "We here at apple love sony, we strive to be as good as sony is...And I think we have. Introducing blah blah blah Powerbook"


Sony sux as do there ps2.