[vvedge]

...before yesterday, I thought I got the better end of the deal with my Sony Minidisc player. Small, light, CD quality, customizable. I loved it... note.... 'loved' it...

Then I see this iPod... which frankly despite costs is EVERYTHING a mp3 player should be.

So, then I turn against my poor little MD player...

This morning, I had that song "Take California" stuck in my head... so I decided to record the mp3 onto an MD. (not pirating, I'm sure I have that CD somewhere )

So, plug in my MD recorder to my audio out like I always did. Then started recording the 7 minute song...

2 minutes go by, still recording... I enter the track name in there. Wow, I can enter a whole title into that puny one line LCD display... 3 minutes... still recording, maybe you don't know but MiniDiscs record at REAL TIME... so, a whole CD takes an hour... 7 minute song takes all 7 minute.

so, I'm waiting there for the track to end..

6 minutes... I really have to go... I'm going to miss my ride to school...

7 minutes... I'm yelling at the thing to hurry up...

7 minutes 21 seconds, I stop the recording... turn it off... it takes the next 30 seconds saving the recording... I'm itching to run...

Done, I take the MD out... I run out the door. 10 minutes late....

And when I was on the way to school... I realize I just did the EXACT OPPOSITE of the iPod commerical. In 20 seconds, the guy transfers the song to his iPod, and darts out the door... even finding time to dance in between...

So... am I sold? HELL YES...

When will I get an iPod?
...when I get the money or a kind relative chokes up $400...

[Technicolor]

That's a funny story. I too bought a Minidisc player in hopes of it solving all of my portable music needs. I had the special USB kit to attach it to my Mac and everything.

My love for the sleek Sony design and those cute little discs soon turned into a loathing hatred. I couldn't bear to figure out all the recording levels, how to type in song titles etc, etc. This thing had a 75 page manual! I just wanted to take my music with me.

So, I too was happy as a clam to see the iPod. Good design, good features, sorta good price. I like it enough to buy it.

Justin

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Technicolor ]

[bipto]

Wow, you guys are saying exacty what I'm thinking. Problem is, my MD is only about two weeks old. Damn...and it was the guy at the Apple store who talked me into an MD.

[SpeedRacer]

C'mon guys please tell me none of you bought a MD player SOLEY with the intention of using as a digital audio PLAYBACK device?

The true beauty of MDs is the ability to take them just about anywhere, hook up a nice stereo mic, and record custom digital audio sessions in extremely high-quality form. MD is BAR-NONE the best way to record any live music concert/event - extremely small, not widely known/recognizable, and easily interchangable with new, tiny blank media.

Just bought one for $300 to record a couple shows last weekend, recorded it back out to SoundJam in MP3 format, and now even with the sh*tty mic i used the memories of those two shows i will have with me forever.

You just can't do that with ANY other digital audio device on the market. iPod's got no sound-in, Nomad's far too large.

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the USB adaptor allow you to drag audio files PC -> MD and that it's just MD -> PC that you do real-time? Didn't quite get a chance to read that whole manual before i returned mine come Mon morning...



Speed

[vvedge]

We bought our first recorder for that purpose, but it never really came in handy.. so I started using it as a portable music device, and really liked it... but now this iPod owns MDs...

<STRONG>Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the USB adaptor allow you to drag audio files PC -&gt; MD and that it's just MD -&gt; PC that you do real-time? Didn't quite get a chance to read that whole manual before i returned mine come Mon morning...
</STRONG>

Quite wrong.. PC links are useless... unless you have true digital output on your computer via some soundcard or something, its analog all the way.

All the PC link is is a USB audio output device (plus sends OSX into a kernel panic last time I checked). Its still painfully recording in real time...

hey, I wouldn't be complaining if the iPod didn't exist... now that it does, it makes my MDs look old, bulky and slow...

[BZ]

Same boat.

I have deffended Minidiscs for years. I have owned three of them and right now there are two portables and one shelf stereo in my dwelling (the Girlfriend owns that and a portable). We love MD, we record and re-record MDs over and over. I have traveled around the world with it. In the past 6 months or so I have stopped taking it to work though. Just too hard to get music on to it and you can only really carry so many little disks. I have stayed away from MP3 hoping that someone would integrate Minidisks and MP3 better...

Until iPod.

My girlfriend (who barely knows what a MP3 is) wants one. So do I. So we bought two.

Minidiscs? Going up on ebay. It was a great technology that took too long. Sony pulled a Betamax on it. Even now that you can record 320 minutes on one, it is still too hard to get it onto the MD. There are recorders who do double speed and maybe some that do triple. But I want to house my entire CD collection (or most of it).

Anyway, as a long time fighter of the MD fight. It is over. Long live MP3, the iPod and Apple.

BZ

[hardcat1970]

have you guys watch the ipod quicktime intro from steve? It just blew me away with that firewire speed. 2 months ago, i bought the sony mz-r700 with digital link. yeah it is great, tiny and has 320 min recording time, but the painful part is... you actually have to wait 320 mins of its recording and when its done, you have to manually enter the name of each track.

[FAerrorTAL]

wow, this is funny, all of our stories are the same!
evangelize to MD, then say "whoa, iPod..."
I'm no update waiting freak, but i really need portable recording on an iPod before i can give up MD.
sadly, i haven't recorded an md in weeks, it just takes too long. i have to give up my comp to it for an hour.
oh well, one tech or the other needs a good feature upgrade, or i'm just gonna sit here torn!

peace md fans.
aaron

[pdot]

wow, I'm impressed: It sounds like Apple did make a pretty darn good MP3 player. I don't know much about MP3 Players besides what I had read, but I watched a MD infomercial way back and thought it was pretty cool. Apparently, it pales in comparison to the iPod. Now, if only Apple could bring that thing down another $100 before the novelty wears off. Also, I hope people have more discussions like this thread, so that way more people like me will get a better feel of what's good and bad about iPod. The other threads I'd read before were just filled with whiny remarks and ecstatic praise and didn't really turn into a discussion. Good job.

[hardcat1970]

actually i would love to keep my minidisc around for couple of years. I even consider buying the new 4x minidisc shelf recorder...But it cost $400 and up and it is only a deck. Still 4x recording is no comparison to firewire. I just hope ipod will get down to $250 by next february.

[tonton]

Originally posted by Technicolor:
<STRONG>That's a funny story. I too bought a Minidisc player in hopes of it solving all of my portable music needs. I had the special USB kit to attach it to my Mac and everything.</STRONG>

What? Where do I get that USB kit? I have an MZ-R700 I'd love to connect to my Powerbook digitally without buying a $400 Roland breakout box.

Of course, come November 10, I probably won't be using my MD much anymore..

[hardcat1970]

Are you in hong kong right now? cos i see you posted from Hong Kong. Mini Disc is very popular in Hong Kong, you should able to find the usb kit. Otherwise, you could check out the webs like amazon and others. Check out this website: http://www.minidisco.com

[bipto]

All the PC link is is a USB audio output device (plus sends OSX into a kernel panic last time I checked).

It works great under 10.1...

Check out this website: http://www.minidisco.com

Minidisco is a great resource. That's where I bought mine...

My theory as to why Sony never made a really killer MD/MP3 player device (can you imagine...an MD recorder with one of those tiny FireWire ports that mounts on the desktop and that can decode MP3 files?) is that they have a split personality. On the one hand, they are this amazing consumer electronics company that creates really cool stuff (even if there is seemingly no market for it), but on the other hand, they're also a huge RECORD COMPANY who is irrationally terrified of MP3 swapping. Ergo, no really killer MP3 solution.

When Apple drops the price of the iPod (which they will surely do after Christmas), my MD goes on eBay. Anybody wanna make me an offer on a month old MZ-G750?

[BZ]

Sony does not really want you to put MP3s on your Minidisc. I don't think that Sony really believes in MP3 because they are a large producer of music. Why sell Mindiscs for $3 ($1 worth of profit) when you can sell a CD for $15 and make $14 worth of profit.

Apple, OTOH, does not really care about selling CDs, just hardware and software.

Originally posted by bipto:
<STRONG>

Minidisco is a great resource. That's where I bought mine...

My theory as to why Sony never made a really killer MD/MP3 player device (can you imagine...an MD recorder with one of those tiny FireWire ports that mounts on the desktop and that can decode MP3 files?) is that they have a split personality. On the one hand, they are this amazing consumer electronics company that creates really cool stuff (even if there is seemingly no market for it), but on the other hand, they're also a huge RECORD COMPANY who is irrationally terrified of MP3 swapping. Ergo, no really killer MP3 solution.

When Apple drops the price of the iPod (which they will surely do after Christmas), my MD goes on eBay. Anybody wanna make me an offer on a month old MZ-G750?</STRONG>

[kidtexas]

Actually, the reason I think MD is limited in the form of MP3's and drag-and-drop audio copying (high speed) has to do with rules and regs on copying music. I think these rules/laws limit most audio formats to real time copying, with the exception of dubbing machines. But dubbing machines only let you make limited copies at a time, etc. CDs got around this fact with the CD burner. You aren't actually copying the music; you aren't reading the music in a player and making a high speed copy of it, you are reading the data, treating the disc as if it was full of files. I know this distinction is small, but thats how it goes. Thus the CD burners are can get around the real time digital copying limits by treating the content as data and not audio. MD and most other formats aren't also data formats like the CD.

I will be interested to see how this evolves though. Now that it is clear that CD burners make a joke of regulations like this, I think manufacturers are going to make a push to release formats (like MD) that are computer compatible and let you drag and drop audio on them and make high speed copies.

[MM-o4]

iPod...

- Pro: can be used also as a storage device, looks pretty

- Con: NO REMOVABLE MEDIA or SOUND IN

The 2 'cons' seal the deal when it comes to MD's. I am into music and I use my MD at shows instead of a Dat or CD. They're are the sh^t!!

MM-o4

[BiCuriousGeorge]

Last time I checked into MDs, there was no such thing as a portable MD recorder with a DIGITAL out. Someone explained to me that it was because of the legal distinctions between "recording devices" and "computer peripherals" as noted above.

So...what's this about a USB connector? Have things changed? The thing that killed MiniDisc as an option for me was that, after making a live recording in pristine digital format, you can't get the digital info back OUT, only an analog version.

Or am I mistaken? (Wouldn't be the first time...)

BTW, did everyone see that article about the iPod Easter Egg? Hold down the center button and it starts up a game of Breakout on the display!!! How cool is that....

[kidtexas]

All the USB connector business is is a USB audio device that has optical digital out. So you can go Computer -&gt; USB Device -&gt; MD. It converts the digital USB Audio signal to an optical digital signal.

Yes, I don't know of any portable MD recorders/players that have digital outs. That means you have to get a home MD deck that has a digital out - on the newer models, these are only on the more expensive ones (last I checked).

[BiCuriousGeorge]

That's what I thought, about the digital out situation.

Well, I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that Apple's got an "iPodPro" ready to release after the new year, with a mic/line in. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to spring for the 6GB Archos Recorder....that's the only portable device I've found that lets you do digital live recording AND digital output, although it only records in MP3 format. Apple, give us WAV and AIFF recording, too, in iPodPro......pleeease?

[kidtexas]

I think you might be better off recording on a MD then sending the audio out through the analog out of the MD player. I don't know, but I would imagine the quality lost there and in the MD ATRAC compression is not as much as is lost in the MP3 compression. Analog really isn't that bad. The big problem with the analog conversion is that you can't make exact copies. Digital -&gt; Analog -&gt; Digital doesn't introduce that much noise, its just that it prevents you from making an exact digital copy. But you don't really have to worry about that since you would be dumping the audio onto your computer and burning a CD out of it (I am guessing). That would be your high quality digital "master". And plus the MD is much smaller than just about anything and has good battery life.

Now, if Apple were to release and iPodPro with recording capabilities, I would say go for that That is what i am hoping for!

[appleseed]

As mentioned by earlier posters, there is a considerable difference in the acoustic quality between MD and MP3 -- acid test: play an MP3 through a half decent hi-fi? it sounds like a low quality tape. MD uses 1:5 compression, whereas MP3 uses 1:12. The fidelity to the primary source is compromised in accordance with the level of compression. Ergo, the need to use psychoacoustic algorithms (ATRACS) to compensate, but these also are far more developed with MD, compared to MP3.

The implications are not trivial if you actually care about music, and the iPod is being sold on this basis, since it's being sold as the best you can get in a portable MUSIC device. That said, these concerns are more to do with the comparison between MP3 and MD, as opposed to concerns unique to the iPod. Still, the iPod does seem to offer the best MP3 solution available.

The differences between the iPod and MD in terms of battery life are less easy to reconcile. The iPod promises circa 10 hours....and with only AC and Firewire as recharging options, this may dampen the initial excitement of having 1000 songs with only 10 hours in which to listen to them...Current MD players have real world performance in excess of 100 hrs playback, in form factors that weigh a lot less than 100g and are basically the size of an MD. Plus, you're not tied to a computer for editing the audio, or recharging.

So, the iPod is really only a breakthrough MP3 device...other far more accomplished portable music solutions exist.

[+ spiral +]

Originally posted by vvedge:
<STRONG>...before yesterday, I thought I got the better end of the deal with my Sony Minidisc player [...]

[...] so, a whole CD takes an hour...</STRONG>

I hear you. I keep thinking the same thing but then i remember: "what will i do about all my mr. rogers on vinyl? lenny dee?" etc. Like speedracer said, it's about having the flexibility of recording. It totally depends on your useage. I use my MD for demos, a temp place to record loops, bootleg shows, do a premaster of stuff off of my 4track (reel-to-reel). If you don't have any kind of recording needs, then the iPod is a bit pricey but great and will last for a long time. I'll probably get one for my GF because her needs are suited perfectly for it and cause, well ... I just have too much money. Can i buy anyone else one?

[jokell82]

Originally posted by SpeedRacer:
<STRONG>The true beauty of MDs is the ability to take them just about anywhere, hook up a nice stereo mic, and record custom digital audio sessions in extremely high-quality form. MD is BAR-NONE the best way to record any live music concert/event - extremely small, not widely known/recognizable, and easily interchangable with new, tiny blank media.

Just bought one for $300 to record a couple shows last weekend, recorded it back out to SoundJam in MP3 format, and now even with the sh*tty mic i used the memories of those two shows i will have with me forever.

You just can't do that with ANY other digital audio device on the market. iPod's got no sound-in, Nomad's far too large.

</STRONG>

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. An MD is one of the WORST ways to record live music. Problem one: all of the music is compressed, so sound quality is not what it should be. Problem two: MD's cannot hold an entire live concert on one disc. This means that half way (or maybe even sooner) through the show you will have to stop, eject, and put in a new MD. This could be a problem if it stops in the middle of a song.

If you want to record live music (legally, of course, through bands that allow it), get a DAT. They offer uncompressed music and can hold an entire concert.

[vvedge]

I think this is a good size reference too.



And from the side... man, am I going to miss that battery BULGE when I get my iPod

[Heman]

People buy Turntable for real music
People buy DAT for Music,Audio Quality and HiFi
People buy CD for Music and HiFi
People buy MiniDisc for portable and Audio Quality
People buy iPod for portable only