[Sal]

You guys know me to be a straight-talker and I'm here to tell you that the iPod is an impressive piece of technology.

I've been working on the scriptability of the forthcoming iTunes 2.0 (which is nicely scriptable!) and have had the opportunity to use an iPod on a regular basis. I have found it to be an absolutely first-class device.

As a musician, the organization and playing of music has been an on-going priority for me. iPod has handily solved several problems for me:

1) Playing music in my car. I was considering getting a Neo35 (an MP3 player replacement for the car stereo, it holds 20-30 gigs and can removed to connect to your computer via USB) but no longer have to spend $500-600 to upgrade my car stereo.

2) Upgrading my living room stereo. No need to buy a new stereo as I can just plug-in the iPod and I've got playlists, repeats, and a huge number of my favorite titles available anytime.

3) Playing music for others. iPod is a great tool for playing music in-between sets on the gig. It's great for parties, family get-togethers, or any occasion where I want my music to be a part of the experience.

There have been numerous comments on these boards about price, quality, innovation, etc. and I can tell you without reservation:

You hold an iPod in your hands for 5-minutes and you'll see the relevance, beauty, and innovation in this product.

By the way, it also makes a great Firewire drive! I can carry my files, demos, and presentations to meetings and listen to my favorite grooves on the way there! Say... I wonder if that's why my meeting schedule has gotten so busy? ;-)

Sal

[RWoelk]

You are spot on, Sal. I really don't understand all the criticism here and elsewhere. It's a marvel of superb engineering, and with the toshiba 1.8 inch drive retailing at $399.00 alone, it's a "STEAL! " Indeed, other players can be had for much less, but this puppy stands in a class by itself, in part, for just the reasons you outlined. I want one just for a handy FireWire drive to be had and to support Apple's marvellous efforts here. Sure. I'll keep some of my favorite tunes on there, but I am old fuddy duddy that has become more of a political - news talk radio junkie spending more of my time listening to same over that of music. On the other hand, my lady friend will love this for an upcoming trip we are taking back east. Where was this device 30 years ago when I could have really put it through it's paces. I was a dancing fool back then. Nevertheless, I'll pick one up soon, and who knows, I may just have to revive those old dance tunes and rediscover my second youth. ;=)

Good job, APPLE, and thanks for your superb efforts over there , Sal.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: RWoelk ]

[RWoelk]

One more thought, If I may, Sal. Talk radio commands a huge market now, and while you probably have no input in regards to iTune's content; I think it would be a real feather in Apple's hat if they could somehow get permissions to air some of the major talk shows around the country. Not likely to happen, however, as the cost would likely be prohibitive. The most popular talk radio station in country is just some 60 clicks up the road, and they just recently stopped their free internet streaming. It's now by paid subscription only. Apparently, the station's streaming has a high overhead for them as well.

Still, this might be appealing to an older demographic... say to the 25-50 year old mostly male crowd.

Just my wish list, I suppose...

[sadie]

Sal, if you've got one and can give us straight answers, can you tell us: does it work with PCs?

This isn't because i'm deserting my beloved Mac platform. I'm just wondering about the machine's future in the market.

gentlemen,

I was at the Northridge Apple Store from 10AM the morning the iPod was released in hopes they might have the new device for sale that same day. I stood there clicking refresh until I finally got some pictures and information on the new product - and I was floored. I want one so badly... I was looking at getting an MP3 player earlier in the year, but they were expensive for what you got - little memory and bad Mac support. I was also thinking about getting a FireWire drive, to shuttle files and apps back and forth... now I don't have to get either one and I can get one beautiful Apple product. I am so happy

I think the design, from what I've seen from the pictures, is amazing as usual. I applaud the interface and it's use of FireWire.

My friends are mostly anti-iPod. They say it is too expensive and does too little.

•holds 1000 songs
•had 5 GB storage capacity
•will play in my car
•hooks up beautifully with my Mac
•uses FireWire
•can be used as a FireWire drive
•can boot up my Mac - so I can use it as a backup drove
•has upgradeable firmware for new file formats
•is tiny!
•it's a beautiful Apple product!

They say it's no more than a $400 CD player. What CD player can do all of the above.

I will not pre-order my iPod (always seems to be a bad idea with a new Apple product...) but I will get one as soon as I can after I see one at the local Apple Store. I can't wait to make my PC friends envious (they already are

wolfeman

[Sal]

Originally posted by sadie:
<STRONG>Sal, if you've got one and can give us straight answers, can you tell us: does it work with PCs?

This isn't because i'm deserting my beloved Mac platform. I'm just wondering about the machine's future in the market.</STRONG>

I didn't post this topic to answer a lot of questions (I'm way behind in my projects at work!) but as far as I know, it doesn't work on Windows. I have no idea what the plans are for the future.

[Wattsy]

Hmm.. and it also comes with a 90 day warranty. Apple obviously has great confidence in the reliability of these things.

[Dan Szwarc]

90 day warranty is typical for devices like these, but where did you read that?

Apple expects you to drop the thing. Not covered by any warranty. Since it is a hrad disk, it should have a 3 year warranty.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by Dan Szwarc:
<STRONG>90 day warranty is typical for devices like these, but where did you read that?

Apple expects you to drop the thing. Not covered by any warranty. Since it is a hrad disk, it should have a 3 year warranty.</STRONG>

It's apparently on the iPod spec page. Apparently it seems that this warranty may run into trouble in the EU. Your best bet is probably to buy the iPod with a credit card that gives you extended warranty protection.

I guess they may be working on Windows software, but they're waiting for sales to slow down before releasing it to keep sales up and even.

[TC]

I was interested in what he was saying about iTunes 2 being scriptable.

Hopefully this will mean that you can remotely control a mac running iTunes giving you an MP3 server.

This should mean that I can put all my MP3s onto my old B+W G3 and free up space on my TiBook and be able to control iTunes running on the B+W using applescript.

Sal if you’re still around can you confirm this would be possible???

(Also with it being on another machine means I could leave the visualizer running all day as well)

[KeyLimePi]

Important note: Sal got his iPod for free.

(I always find free items to be a better value.)

[Sal]

Originally posted by TC:
<STRONG>I was interested in what he was saying about iTunes 2 being scriptable.

Hopefully this will mean that you can remotely control a mac running iTunes giving you an MP3 server.

This should mean that I can put all my MP3s onto my old B+W G3 and free up space on my TiBook and be able to control iTunes running on the B+W using applescript.

Sal if you’re still around can you confirm this would be possible???

(Also with it being on another machine means I could leave the visualizer running all day as well)</STRONG>

The scenerio you describe is quite doable using the Program Linking abilities of Mac OS 9 & Mac OS X 10.1.

[Sal]

Originally posted by KeyLimePi:
<STRONG>Important note: Sal got his iPod for free.

(I always find free items to be a better value.)</STRONG>

Actually, I've paid for it many times over in hours of testing and work! ;-)

However, I do plan to buy a couple for Christmas gifts this year.

[Mac Guru]

You hold an iPod in your hands for 5-minutes and you'll see the relevance, beauty, and innovation in this product.

Funny how that is with Apple products... it's hard to see yourself paying $400 for gadget you really don't need till you're holding it in your hand and the special "you must buy this"® chemicals seep into your skin. I swear they must coat their products with something!

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

What format is the iPod hard drive formatted it?

I hope it is HFS+ so I can copy Mac specific files to it.

Also, if it is, good luck getting that to work with Windows.

[Sal]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
<STRONG>What format is the iPod hard drive formatted in?</STRONG>

I believe the iPod is formatted as an HFS+ volume.

[RWoelk]

Wow, I don't know how this double post got here... late night I guess...

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: RWoelk ]

Sal,
How are you going to hook this up to your car stereo??? I'll buy one if I can do this, but I won't be driving around with earphones in my ears.

VR6

[Sal]

Originally posted by &lt;VR6&gt;:
<STRONG>Sal,
How are you going to hook this up to your car stereo??? I'll buy one if I can do this, but I won't be driving around with earphones in my ears.

VR6</STRONG>

If you're lucky, you have one of those car stereos that allow auxilliary input. Otherwise, Sony and other companies offer devices that plug into the cassette slot and receive input through the standard mini-plug output of the iPod. My stereo supports both scenerios.

[waffffffle]

Hey Sal, you are the man! I am so very anxiously awaiting iTunes scriptability in X and I thank you for your work. Can you tell us what kind of scriptability iTunes will have? Aside from the basic back, forward, pause, play? Is the auto-sync scriptable? Any other goodies?

Also, since you are the Applescript MAN, I was wondering if you could direct me towards a resource that can help me with a script that I am working on for my school. We have about 30 Macs scattered around campus and they each have a startup script that set the proper printer as a desktop printer. However I have been having trouble getting the script to set the proper PPD. Unfortunately the PPD used for this desktop printer doesn't work like normal PPDs. The PPD isn't stored in Extensionsrinter Descriptions, but in Preferencesarsed PPD Folder. Any ideas? I understand that this sort of support isn't your job, but if you could point me in the direction of a someone who can help me I would be very grateful. Thanks again.

Sal,

You're a sellout.

If they gave me a free mp3 player, any mp3 player, I would be happy about it too.

You are happy at getting a product which you can resell at $400 on ebay. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why you're gushing.

And it is horribly dishonest of you to not have disclosed this conflict-of-interest along with your so-called "review".

wiggles, you're annoying.

Originally posted by &lt;squiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>wiggles, you're annoying.</STRONG>

Have you heard of conflict-of-interest?

When someone reviews an mp3 player while conveniently forgetting to mention that he got it for free, do you suspect conflict-of-interest?

I do.

But then again, unlike you I suppose, I have some common sense.

[kidtexas]

Wiggles, you are annoying. Its not the points you raise, some of which have been good, but the fact that you are confrontational and condescending. Sal isn't a sell out cause he said the iPod is cool. Sure, maybe his review is slightly biased cause he got it for free, but it is still an honest review. If you want to discuss things, then by all means stay and discuss; it is good to hear the other side of things. But if your going to be an ass, go away.

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>Wiggles, you are annoying. Its not the points you raise, some of which have been good, but the fact that you are confrontational and condescending. Sal isn't a sell out cause he said the iPod is cool. Sure, maybe his review is slightly biased cause he got it for free, but it is still an honest review. If you want to discuss things, then by all means stay and discuss; it is good to hear the other side of things. But if your going to be an ass, go away.</STRONG>

A sellout is the term used for those who capitalize on a conflict-of-interest without properly disclosing it.

I do not feel that I have used the term improperly. Sal has capitalized on a free mp3 player and has failed to disclose this fact in his review, and expects us to believe that his gushing enthusiasm is entirely due to the quality of the unit.

Maybe I have a different opinion than most of you, because I read far more product reviews than most of you, and I recognize a sellout review when I see one.

But anyone with common sense would have to agree that a failure to properly disclose a conflict-of-interest voids any trust one may possibly have in a product review.

Then again, you're all Macheads. I have no idea what goes on through your heads.

[Nebagakid]

Sal, you said you were a musician right? I was wondering what kind of music you do.

[jguidroz]

Wiggles, if someone gave me the best pc out there, I wouldn't give it a good review.

Originally posted by jguidroz:
<STRONG>Wiggles, if someone gave me the best pc out there, I wouldn't give it a good review.</STRONG>

That too would be due to a conflict-of-interest, because you have a vested interest in the success of Apple Corporation and its products.

Whether that vested interest is because you own Apple stock, or you have a significant investment in Apple hardware and software, or just out of sheer love for Apple Corporation, is irrelevant.

Your bad review of the best PC would not be an objective review, it would be an unfair review tainted by your conflict-of-interest.

Originally posted by jguidroz:
<STRONG>Wiggles, if someone gave me the best pc out there, I wouldn't give it a good review.</STRONG>

THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHAT YOUR REVIEW WOULD BE LIKE BEFORE USING OR EVEN SEEING THE PRODUCT is solid proof that you have a conflict-of-interest.

[jguidroz]

For being a pc guy, wiggles, you sure do spend a lot of time on a mac board. Why don't you just go register yourself a name since you like this board so much.

[Michaelm8000]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHAT YOUR REVIEW WOULD BE LIKE BEFORE USING OR EVEN SEEING THE PRODUCT is solid proof that you have a conflict-of-interest.</STRONG>

ever notice how much PC people like ALL CAPS??

[jguidroz]

Yeah, they like all caps as much as they like buying cheap computers and then complaining a week later when it doesn't work.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>


Have you heard of conflict-of-interest?

When someone reviews an mp3 player while conveniently forgetting to mention that he got it for free, do you suspect conflict-of-interest?

I do.

But then again, unlike you I suppose, I have some common sense.</STRONG>

Well if you had any sort of common sense, you might have reached the assumption that as Sal had used the product before it went on sale he *obviously* didn't pay for it. How could he?

Thanks for ruining an interesting thread with your whining.

[OAW]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

That too would be due to a conflict-of-interest, because you have a vested interest in the success of Apple Corporation and its products.

Whether that vested interest is because you own Apple stock, or you have a significant investment in Apple hardware and software, or just out of sheer love for Apple Corporation, is irrelevant.

Your bad review of the best PC would not be an objective review, it would be an unfair review tainted by your conflict-of-interest.</STRONG>

Wiggles,

Your comments on this board clearly show your bias against Apple. You haven't said anything positive about Apple or its products since you've started posting here. And that is your prerogative .. it is a free country after all. But by your own logic in your comments above, all your comments about the iPod should be completely ignored because you certainly are not objective!

OAW

Originally posted by OAW:
<STRONG>

all your comments about the iPod should be completely ignored because you certainly are not objective!

OAW</STRONG>

For your information, I have a Mac in my basement. It's all packed and has not seen any use in years.

I have spent years working with computers from most any manufacturer, including the Sinclair Spectrum, Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga, Sun workstations, Intel, Cryix and AMD based PCs, Apple Macs, and a whole bunch of obscure machines you have probably never even heard of.

When I make strong and opinionated statements, I make them from a position of years of personal experience. I have spent years personally testing all available computer architectures, operating systems, and usability. I know what works. I know what gives me the best value for my dollar.

In my experience, Macs are toylike computers. They deny user access and user control to some very integral parts of the OS. Configurability is impossible except for some very cosmetic aspects. Apple offers mediocre, previous-generation hardware at ripoff prices.

Whatever strong opinions I have, I have reached them through objective testing. I am thoroughly insulted that you imply that I have a conflict-of-interest in this matter. The only interest that I have is my own interest in being able to compute in the best computing environment currently available, offering the best price to performance ratio. And in light of all currently available data, that is a PC environment.

[FormerLurker]

wiggles comes across like an idiotic blowhard with major personal issues.... just as one of us would have issues if we spent a bunch of time posting anti-microsoft, pro-mac stuff on a Microsoft Windows fan site.

um.... is there even any such thing as a Windows fan site ?

[JTmanRV]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
[QB]

A sellout is the term used for those who capitalize on a conflict-of-interest without properly disclosing it.

I do not feel that I have used the term improperly. Sal has capitalized on a free mp3 player and has failed to disclose this fact in his review, and expects us to believe that his gushing enthusiasm is entirely due to the quality of the unit.

Maybe I have a different opinion than most of you, because I read far more product reviews than most of you, and I recognize a sellout review when I see one.

But anyone with common sense would have to agree that a failure to properly disclose a conflict-of-interest voids any trust one may possibly have in a product review.

Hmmm...When is that last time a reviewer DIDN"T get the reviewed product free. Does that make you a sell out...NO! It makes you a reviewer. Do movie reviewers PAY to see a movie they are reviewing? Do software reviewers PAY for the software they review? Do electronics reviewers PAY for the equipment they review? Please.

Jump down off of that pedestal!

JT

[quote]Originally posted by JTmanRV:
<STRONG>

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
[QB]

Hmmm...When is that last time a reviewer DIDN"T get the reviewed product free. Does that make you a sell out...NO! It makes you a reviewer. Do movie reviewers PAY to see a movie they are reviewing? Do software reviewers PAY for the software they review? Do electronics reviewers PAY for the equipment they review? Please.

JT</STRONG>

Almost all web-based amateur review sites (tens of thousands) do in fact pay for the things they review.

The relatively few pro sites (less than a hundred maybe) that receive free review units do in fact prominently disclose such facts.

I guess you would be an amateur then.

Heh, amateur reviewer

This just gets sadder and sadder.

[doctre]

&lt;wiggles&gt; I've got a question for you. What part of Sal's original post stated that it was a "review" as you put it? It appears to me that he was just posting his opinion on the iPod. This whole thread has gotten side tracked away from the fact that we have access to a person who has laid his hands upon and gotten to use an iPod who is (or at least was) willing to answer our questions about it. I say we get back to the questions.

My question to Sal is: How is the battery life under real use conditions?

[hardcat1970]

package:



here's the link:http://gear.ign.com/articles/307608p1.html

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: hardcat1970 ]

[tycheung]

Wiggles: This is an informal review that is not published in an edited journal. He did also state that he got to use it for free - he said he got an opportunity to use it as a programmer for iTunes 2.

If this were an official review published in an independently edited journal that was meant to give consumers a balanced view on the device, maybe it would be a serious problem. As this is an unedited forum devoted to spontaneous postings, it is perfectly ethical for Sal to post his views on the device as someone who has used it firsthand.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

A sellout is the term used for those who capitalize on a conflict-of-interest without properly disclosing it.

I do not feel that I have used the term improperly. Sal has capitalized on a free mp3 player and has failed to disclose this fact in his review, and expects us to believe that his gushing enthusiasm is entirely due to the quality of the unit.

Maybe I have a different opinion than most of you, because I read far more product reviews than most of you, and I recognize a sellout review when I see one.

But anyone with common sense would have to agree that a failure to properly disclose a conflict-of-interest voids any trust one may possibly have in a product review.

Then again, you're all Macheads. I have no idea what goes on through your heads.</STRONG>

Originally posted by doctre:
<STRONG>&lt;wiggles&gt; I've got a question for you. What part of Sal's original post stated that it was a "review" as you put it?</STRONG>

It is a review by virtue of its contents.

If he wrote a haiku, but didn't entitle it as such, it would still be a haiku by virtue of its contents.

What a stupid question.

Originally posted by &lt;Smarty Pants&gt;:
<STRONG>I guess you would be an amateur then.

Heh, amateur reviewer

This just gets sadder and sadder.</STRONG>

I am an information technology professional and an amateur web based reviewer.

If I ever decide to make money off of reviewing things on the web, or doing this sort of thing full time, I could easily become a pro reviewer. I just haven't yet. I do this as a hobby.

I don't know what it is that you find funny, but I'm happy that you're finding ways to amuse yourself.

[doctre]

Ahh yes... can't think of anything better to say than to call me stupid. I guess its just a matter of perception with you. You can't admit that you want an iPod so in fear you hide behind an anonymous name and attack it and anyone who mentions that they like it. Or you're just starving for attention and the only way you can get it is post to message boards for a product line that you've admitted to not using for years just to rile the nice folks who were minding their own business up into a frenzy. I hate to admit that it worked but it did, to a point. You just can't see our (the people who use Macs willingly and like it) side can you? It irks you that people can be so different as to care about perceived usabilty and the feeling that they are helping a company that they love. Just as you hate Apple and all that it stands for there are many opposing views and thats what a lot of these boards are about. On that note I'll not be responding to another post that is posted by the anonymous "&lt;wiggles&gt;". Go ahead get your last shot in, I can already tell you absolutely have to have the last word. So lets hear it...

Originally posted by doctre:
<STRONG>Just as you hate Apple and all that it stands for</STRONG>

This is false.

I don't hate Apple.

I don't get emotional about corporations one way or the other unless they do great acts of charity or commit great acts of inhumanity. Such companies are rare.

I simply think that Apple sells previous-generation hardware at ripoff prices, and couples such hardware with an operating system that denies to the user essential control to many parts of the operating system.

It is not a good buy at all.

You can buy faster, more reliable, newer generation hardware at lower prices. Just call up Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc, etc, and get them to put together a system for your budget.

Why would users have such affection for a company that rips them off like this?

I continue to remain baffled.

Originally posted by doctre:
<STRONG>Ahh yes... can't think of anything better to say than to call me stupid.</STRONG>

Your question was a stupid question.

That is what I said.

I don't know you well enough to judge your level of intelligence as a person.

[Shekwan]

an operating system that denies to the user essential control to many parts of the operating system

Most people don't want to deal with their OS, they're not IT professionals.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

I simply think that Apple sells previous-generation hardware at ripoff prices, and couples such hardware with an operating system that denies to the user essential control to many parts of the operating system.

</STRONG>

FireWire, standard on all new Macs and useful for a true multitude of things, isn't even first generation on PCs yet. Most people do not need and are better off lacking access to the core of the OS. To cast the general consumer computing public in with yourself and your needs is dishonest.

You can get a Firewire port on your PC if you like. There are Firewire PCI cards. Tons of them, in fact. It all depends on your needs.

Can you get a Mac with a GeForce3 or Radeon 8500 graphics card? Can you get a Mac with Dolby Surround Sound? Can you get a 1+ gigahertz Mac?

Didn't think so.

Whatever the Mac can do, the PC can do. Whatever the PC can do, the Mac can only drool after.