That is the question...

A Wintel-using friend of mine just got a new computer with a FORTY-FIVE GIGABYTE internal hard drive. And we're talking about a sub-$2500 computer!

Why are we Mac people limited to such small internal drives? The biggest Apple offers built-in is 27 GB, and the only way to get it is to buy a $3400 G4/500

And most internal Apple drives are 10 GB...

Why?

money, $$$, money...

Of course, those Windoze systems do need a lot more room for all that MS spagetti-code stuff. And they need the room for all that extra software & games that we don't envy them for.

Good question. Apple introduced these size drives with the G4 and since it has been out (more than 6 months) they haven't updated the hard drive options. They also charge heavily for both memory and the drive options in their BTO section. I would think it is probably because of their supply of drives which is hard to estimate and is easier if there are fewer sizes to order.As well , their costs for putting together the system might count in the expense involved. I'm probably way off. One other thing that's noticeable though is that they use more than one company's drives which I would have though would raise the price. I would have thought if they ordered them in numbers say from Maxtor only they'd get a great deal. Sorry i couldn't be more helpful.

[Brian Marsh]

Apple hasn't updated the models in quite a while (except putting the G4 back up to it's original CPU speed semi-recently)

while HD prices have gone down, and the sizes have gone up

until Apple updates the models (hopefully this week) you can get the low-end G4/400 and get a 3rd party HD like the 40 or 60 GB Maxtor ATA/66, and put it in yourself (about a 2-5 min job, depending on if you have the screwdriver ready or not)

that fills one of the 3 empty drive bays on the bottom of the G4 unit, you can add a 3rd party ATA/66 card, and add more drives if you fill the initial 10+ GB HD, then the 2nd drive whatever you may put in.

Should Apple be increasing the HD sizes? I think so, the prices have fallen, and the sizes have increased a fair bit over the past 8-12 months, a jump to 20 GB in the low-end G4, and to 60 GB in the high-end would be nice

Before to many more posts on this thread are made, we should probably all wait until after Wednesday 9 AM Eastern and see what kind of show Mr. Steve Jobs will put on =)

Don't forget that the drives that a Mac uses tend to be faster and/or of higher quality than those in most PCs.

I ditto the last reply. Apple has tried to walk a "more for less" tight rope, being able to do one or the other, but not always both. We have always known that the Mac is a better value - now more than ever at these prices. But its true that the quality of both hardware and software seem to be much higher for the Mac. That means higher prices and fewer choices. This has been changing or better AND worse. Lets wee what happens...

It is because Mac buyers are air-headed, gullible persons who like to buy low nutrition, low fiber, cute candy flavored computers, disregard of knowing how phucked they will be in just nine months.

The real question would be "Do i need 45 GB worth of storage in my Mac?"

Damn, i use 3 x 4 GB disks in my G3 Minitower and i still have plenty of space available, (over 1 GB per disk)

Granted that Hard Disk prices have fallen down these last weeks, but the fact remains, a low end user who just want to go onto the internet with a iMac won't need 45 GB of storage, trust me. Power users who need that much storage will go with the G4 and the bigger HD it provides (like 20 GB) and when the time he will need more than that, he will be able to buy a 50 GB disk for 200$, 50 cents worth of screws, put it in the empty bay of his G4 and then he will have the storage he's looking for.

Let the PeeCee world struggle with this stuff if they think it's worthwile.

It's a different market place. In the Wintel world, the only things that differentiate the competitors are name and price, and the name thing only works for a handful of the big guys.

A majority of PC buyers decide on their machine on the basis of price alone, so there is a great deal of incentive for PC manufacturers to cut margins to the bone to get the biggest numbers on their boxes, i.e. 700 Mhz, 45Gb, etc., while leaving prices low. This is what drives down proces in the PC world. It is also what can be blamed for the poor components, quality and construction of some PC brands.

The Mac market is not such a commodity market. It means we pay more, but most people choosing to buy a Mac recognize that the "numbers" can be smaller while the value remains greater.

gtabbott

What is all this talk about greater value? Do you people hear yourselves? An inexpensive 45GB drive is less value than a more expensive 27GB drive??? How do you figure that? Is the 27GB drive in that Mac a 10,000RPM drive while the 45GB drive is only 5,400?? Is it really that much harder to install in a PC than in a Mac? I read that Dell actually has a great upgrade path.

Sorry guys, I'm a Mac fan, but I am growing increasingly disillusioned with the Mac platform lately. Apple better deliver some serious upgrades to its products this week. I am tired of reading the lame apologetics and excuses for WHY Apple has more expensive machines. Let's see... the components are better... they don't depend on one manufacturer... blah blah blah.

The fact of the matter is, Apple should find a way to be more price-competitive. No more lame excuses and apologetics. Just do it.

They need to get MUCH faster processors in there, too. I'm tired of reading about the Altivec advantage. What about SSI and 3DNow! ?? Factor all that in and you have to start reconsidering MHz again. And there, the Mac's at a SERIOUS disadvantage.

If things do not change soon, my next machine will probably be a Linux box running x86 hardware. Ugh.

I agree-Apple has no excuse whatsoever for charging such exorbitant prices for upgrade HD from BTO, and shipping such (relatively) small drives in their current offerings. My only guess is that they've been trying to pad their earnings/margins so Fred can put up some pretty numbers tomorrow in his conference call with the analysts.
I hope along with the rest of you that Steve will also put up some nice numbers on Wed., starting with processor speeds and big HD sizes and going from there.

P.S. I want X too! Am I a greedy glutton? :-)

One reason I started this post concerned me (not just my friend). I have only had my computer for 8 months, and the internal 6 GB HD is already down to a measly 150 MB of available space.

I DID shell out $130 for an external 10 GB USB HD about 3 months ago... it has 5 GB left (actually, I might as well say 4, as Diablo II will take up a gigabyte of that space when I get my copy later this week--if Blizzard is telling the truth. See http://www.Blizzard.com/press/000717.shtml and read the first paragraph).

And, of course, I'm looking forward to some major revisions of Apple's hardware lineup (as well as OS X PB) that will be introduced the day after tomorrow, at MWNY.

personally, the thought of a hard drive bigger than 20 gigs frightens me. I mean, how do you back something like that up (aside from tape or another hard drive, whcih kinda defeats the purpose) Ever tried to de-frag one of those monsters? How about just running disk first aid? Personally, i'd rather have 2 smaller drives than 1 uberdrive anyday.

You HAVE checked that you don't have huge unflushed temp files and/or TechTool Pro's Trash Cache taking up so much of your hard drive space, right?

Just a thought.

mb

personally, the thought of a hard drive bigger than 20 gigs frightens me. I mean, how do you back something like that up (aside from tape or another hard drive, whcih kinda defeats the purpose) Ever tried to de-frag one of those monsters? How about just running disk first aid? Personally, i'd rather have 2 smaller drives than 1 uberdrive anyday.

Are you serious? These larger drives are super fast. Defrag takes very little time. I just installed an IBM 75 GXP ATA66 45 gig in my B&W G3, and it's absolutely great, super fast and quiet. Running TechTool Pro through its paces takes no time at all. And when you back up, you are only backing up what really matters. My drive capacity might be larger, but the files I backup are the same.
Also, the drives that Apple uses in the newer G3's/G4's are the same drives that are in some PC's, like Maxtors, IBM, Seagate. The original drive that shipped with my B&W G3 was a 6 gig Maxtor, with a Apple Logo on it. Any of Apples upgrades are way more $ then if you purchased on your own, like ram, drives, etc.

Back to the original question:

In my experience, Wintel machines chew through hard drive space much more quickly than Macs. The installs for Windows 2000 and the Wintel version of Microsoft Office are obscenely large. No one writes bad code like Microsoft.

Can't reply on any of the price vs. performance stuff - the 12 gig drive in my Pismo is big enough for me for now. I have to say that I am careful not to put stuff on there that I won't use, because I have lost too much drive space in the past by stocking my machine with stuff I never used.

Don

Stop the whining already!

Seems everyone's forgotten the laws of inventory, supply and demand and everything else involved in the manufacturing process.

Apple doesn't purchase nearly as many hard drives as the other companies, thus their cost are likely higher. Analyst and everyone else who look at the company take into consideration inventory on hand among other things which are all tied to earnings, etc.

I'm sure Apple's smart enough to realize that if a person needs 50GB's, they'll buy it themselves, thus they have no need to stockpile 50GB HD's for the small percentage of people who honestly need a drive that big.

You were obviously happy with the Mac you purchased or you wouldn't have bought it in the first place, so why the big stink about hard drive size after the fact? I'm sure as a frugal shopper, hard disk size weighed heavily on your mind when considering whether to buy a Mac or Wintel box.

If the size of the HD (or lack thereof) that comes installed on a computer is enough to make you buy a Wintel box......by all means do so. I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase, because it sounds like the Wintel box offers everything you want in a computer; speed, massive hard drive, etc, etc.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder why you didn't buy a Wintel box in the first place.

Yeah, THANKS for the suggestion...

Well, apparently this isn't too much of an issue now. As for desktops, the smallest hard drive you can now get in a desktop Mac configuration is 7.5 gigs, and the average size of BTO hard drive configurations (computed by myself by hand with my excellent math skills) is 23 and a bit gigs
That isn't that bad at all by my reasoning.
Except for DV, I find it devilishly hard to use up more than 6 or 7 gigs.
Trevor Haldenby

Come-on folks....hard drives are cheap.

I bought a 20GB maxtor 7200 rpm for $159 less a $20 off coupon, removed the 6GB in my rev c imac, and installed the bigdrive in about 15 minutes....sold the 6 GB for $60 second hand.

So i dropped in a 20GB highspeed drive for $79 - myself - in 15 minutes (not including blanking and re-install of course)

If you don't like the drive in there...do something about it.

P.S - for the same money i spent on the 20GB three months ago, i could now get a 30GB

Things just move to fast to always have the biggest and best.

Most people who own an imac dont need a drive that big...firewire makes it even easier if you do.