[mikerally]

I was just looking at the new Pro Keyboard at Apple's website:
http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

And I like the idea that it is now full sized aswell as having an Eject button for CDs/DVDs (that's shut up the PCs users who complain there is no drive eject button).

However upon examining the keyboard closely, I noticed the lack of a Power button, a first from Apple in a long while.

While I might understand Apple removing it as the keyboard power button doesn't work anyway when connected to anything but the CPU itself, I couldn't find the Power Button on the G4 cube either?

Can someone explain to me how we are suppose to turn the G4 cube on without reaching underneath the glass box????

[rosssanford]

check out QTVR of the cube: http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/cube0719_480.html

it looks like the power button is on the left and/or right side of the cube, maybe?

[King Chung Huang]

According to the cube's specs, that "button" is actually the AirPort antenna, not a power button. Anyways, there's gotta be a power button on the keyboard somewhere! It'd be pretty annoying to have to go to the Finder everytime you want to restart/shutdown/sleep. Also, under OS X, you can choose "log out" with the power button.

[reader50]

Check out the key on the top right. Between the Eject key and the Volume Up key. It shows a triangle, just like Apple used to put on the Reset key before it became the Power key.

The only other place I can think of is on the top edge, perhaps beside the cord. But that is out of the way where no one would see it. I copied the keypoard jpeg and magnified, could not see any other possibilities.

>Check out the key on the top right. Between
>the Eject key and the Volume Up key. It shows
>a triangle, just like Apple used to put on
>the Reset key before it became the Power key.

That is a MUTE key. It's not a triangle, it's a speacker with no noise coming out of it. Besides, it would be dumb for apple to go back to the triangle power icon after everyone has adopted the circle with line through it.

But it appears even stupider that there is no power button on the keyboard. Please tell me that the pictures are just of prototypes or something.

[tooki]

Expo report:

the Pro Keyboard does not have a power key! Instead this functionality has been transferred to the power button on the new Studio Displays, whose power button and light actually control the CPU, which in turn controls the screen.

tooki

[Cipher13]

Again, that doesn't fare well for older PowerMac users, does it? Will the monitor be able to control the CPU in them?
Has Apple forgotten those people that spent A$4100 on a G4? (happy Herr?)
What if I want a new monitor?

Cipher13

[MacOS761]

I got a G4 a month and a half ago (it's a 400, no regrets), and I got the 15" LCD display. It has a built in USB hub, and uses 1 cord that splits into 3 near the end (power, USB, DVI). It can turn the computer on with it's power button. So that's fine. However, what happens to people who buy a new computer (say a Cube), but use an older VGA monitor? I'll be set to upgrade my G4 (but I won't for quite a while, surely), but many people aren't. Maybe Griffin or somebody will make a USB power button peripheral (groan).

[Evangellydonut]

Well, according to MacCentral, the Eject key is the power-button when there's no CD in the drive...I guess that'll work.

Does anyone remember what Steve said about you never having to shut the computer down? Just put it to sleep, therefore you don't need a power button (except for the first time) you just hit any key and the computer wakes up.

[mikerally]

Hi guys,

nice to hear your opinions on this issue:

Rossandford, those two circles you see on the QTVR of the G4 cube are the Airport antennae.

Reader50, that is the Mute key.

Tooki, thanks for confirming this for us, and that it is just not the picture. It's official, THERE IS NO power key on the keyboard.

Cipher13, good point, how does Apple expect us to turn our G4 cubes on if we have not bought their brand monitor? There must be a way as they have included a standard VGA port on the system.

Evangellydonut, I don't see how that concept is feasible. Why would anybody hit the Eject key to turn their computer ON? It doesn't even have a power symbol here.

IEEE1394, that doesn't explain how your turn the computer on in the first place. There are many situations in which I have to turn my computer off, especially when I have to move it or install something.

The key issue here guys is: How do you turn a G4 cube on without an Apple monitor???

I think Apple should have left the power button on the keyboard - even if it is the Eject key - it will confuse people even more.

[apreston]

The grey apple logo on the front side of the Cube is a touch sensitive on/sleep button. If off, then touching it turns the Cube on. If on, then it makes the Cube sleep.

The lack of a power button on the keyboard is a justifiable decision to me. Since the Cube has no fan, when it's asleep it will be completely silent just like when it's off, yet moving the mouse brings back to instant usefulness. Also, once OS X arrives, the constant restarting that Mac users go through won't be needed anymore. Protected memory and preemptive multitasking vastly increase system stability.

[reader50]

Here is the URL for the MacCentral article. The Eject button doubles as an emergency power button.
http://www.maccentral.com/news/0007/21.keyboard.shtml

[CaseCom]

I don't trust MacCentral. It's not a reliable news source, in my opinion.

Here's what Apple says on the power button issue:

"The information at the linked (MacCentral) article is not correct. The new Apple Pro Keyboard has been designed for the new Power Mac and iMac computers which do not recognize the keyboard power key. There is no power key on the Apple Pro Keyboard and the eject button does not function as a power button." http://discuss.info.apple.com/boards/powermac. nsf/ccb088a1de6aac738525631c0067846b/f554ade44e07928d86256923005ef4cf?OpenDocument

Also:
http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/N58652
"The Apple Pro Keyboard does not have a Power button. When using an Apple Pro keyboard, press the computer's power button to turn it on."
http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/N58677
"To turn on the Power Mac G4 Cube computer, press its power button or the power button on an Apple display with Apple Display Connector that is connected to the computer. Touch the power button with the flat part of your finger and hold it there briefly."




[This message has been edited by CaseCom (edited 07-24-2000).]

[CaseCom]

Also, about the location of the power button on the computer: It's on the top of the cube. It's barely visible at all in the QuickTime VR view, but you can see the Apple's circular "power" symbol pretty well in the view at the top of this page:
http://www.apple.com/powermaccube/

[RWoelk]

Has anybody pointed out the wonderful price point on this keyboard? If memory serves me well, the old Apple extended ADB keyboard was something in the order of $159.00... maybe even more($175.00)? It strikes me that at $59.00 this new piece of hardware is a STEAL!

------------------
Rocke "Why yes, I have brought our
network down." Woelk

Only the educated are free!-Epictetus

[Cipher13]

"The Apple Pro Keyboard does not have a Power button. When using an Apple Pro keyboard, press the computer's power button to turn it on."

Well turning it on is all good and well (on older comps I mean), but, how about turning off?
If I press the power button on my Sawtooth, it goes into deep sleep...
And I don't really want to use deep sleep as an alternative to shutting down, and the inconvenience of not having the keyboard power button almost makes it not worth buying.
Also, does it have the same feeling and spacing between keys as the old USB keyboard?

Cipher13

[CaseCom]

How about using the Special menu? That's what I've always used to shut down my iMac DV.

[Herr Newton]

Somewhere (god knows where...) I remember reading that if you *held* the power button on the CPU or one of the ADC monitors for a few seconds, the machine would give you the standard shutdown dialog. Can anyone confirm this, or have I had too little sleep and too many allergey drugs?

Originally posted by Cipher13:
"The Apple Pro Keyboard does not have a Power button. When using an Apple Pro keyboard, press the computer's power button to turn it on."

Well turning it on is all good and well (on older comps I mean), but, how about turning off?
If I press the power button on my Sawtooth, it goes into deep sleep...
And I don't really want to use deep sleep as an alternative to shutting down, and the inconvenience of not having the keyboard power button almost makes it not worth buying.
Also, does it have the same feeling and spacing between keys as the old USB keyboard?

Cipher13

[todrain]

If you hit the power button on the keyboard (or on an iBook or powerbook) it will bring up an option to shut down or sleep. If you hold in the button (on a Powerbook or ibook) it will shut OFF the system. (can't speak for an iMac or G4)

I'm really not happy about the new keyboard either. The Apple Extended II Keyboard was the best ever made, why not just make a USB version of it? (complete with the power key)

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like the missing power key write to Apple on their web site... Jobs said that Apple "listens," so let's see! (hey, it got rid of the puck mouse!)

Here's one thing you're all missing.

The power button the the top of the cube, behind the huge air vent, is not a *button*. Rather it's a touch sensitive pad in the shape of the conventional circle with a line through it, much like a track pad. In that, if you just touch it, it turns on.

------------------
/phloppy

[wlonh]

having demo'ed the unit myself, i can tell you that Phloppy is dead-on

[TheJoshu]

IEEE1394: "Just put it to sleep, therefore you don't need a power button"

You need a power button to put it to sleep each and every time; waking it up isn't relevant.

For the ones that have an old G4 and want to buy a new monitor , sorry the new monitor isdesigned to be conected to new computers only(remember only one cable) your computers wont identify tht cable so sorry

Okay, so to power on the Cube you simply touch the ON pad. BUT, how do you reset it when everything has locked up on you? You can't do CTRL-CMD-Power on the keyboard anymore.

Does it have an easily accessible mechanical RESET button somewhere?

I'm glad they got rid of the Power button. That makes it easy to use a standard PC keyboard (like those MS Natural Keyboards). I have a Performa 6400, that doesn't have a power button on the front. When I bought my KWM switchbox, I had to buy a little converter that just turns the Mac on, because I use a PC keyboard. There is an emergency shutoff on the back of the Performa, but it is small.....and it shouldn't be used. (Of course I can always turn it on/off with the remote control, but thats not always convenient either).
Just my 2 cents.

The small reset and debugger buttons that are on the G4 and iMac are also on the bottom of the cube. Just tilt back the cube and you can access either button without difficulty.

[tooki]

Originally posted by apreston:
The grey apple logo on the front side of the Cube is a touch sensitive on/sleep button. If off, then touching it turns the Cube on. If on, then it makes the Cube sleep.

Where did you get that information? It's outright incorrect. While the behavior you mentioned is correct, the logo on the front of the Cube is just a logo. There is a standard power-symbol touch pad (much like Bang & Olufsen stereos have) on the top of the device, just as Phloppy said.

Also, assuming it behaves like "old" G4s, holding down the "button" should force it to power down, but not go through proper shutdown.

tooki

[Uncommon]

Originally posted by DigiCow:
The small reset and debugger buttons that are on the G4 and iMac are also on the bottom of the cube. Just tilt back the cube and you can access either button without difficulty.

Tilt back the cube?? That doesn't sound convenient at all, especialy for a developer who may have to do that several times a day.

As for putting it to sleep, I prefer using the power key on my keyboard - it's such a simple thing to hit the power key, then S, and it's asleep.

[Herr Newton]

A developer is more likely to be a power user and, thus, would want a tower G4, not a cube, as their main machine. (Yes, shareware developers... I know, I know.) Just wait till MacOS X comes out and then you won't really miss the power key at all. Drop the system into lower power sleep mode and don't reboot it for weeks, if not months ;-)

Originally posted by Uncommon:
Tilt back the cube?? That doesn't sound convenient at all, especialy for a developer who may have to do that several times a day.

As for putting it to sleep, I prefer using the power key on my keyboard - it's such a simple thing to hit the power key, then S, and it's asleep.

[hayesk]

For goodness sakes, I'm betting that a "Use Eject key to shutdown or sleep" utility will be available in the next few weeks. It's a trivial utility to write - heck, I'd write one today if I had a new keyboard. (I don't, and I refuse to give up my Apple Extended Keyboard II) ;-)

As for the reset button, I can't confirm, but I've read from a few sources that Command-Eject will bring up the debugger, allowing you to restart in most cases, if not, someone will write such a util)

Every time Apple changes something, people complain. Every time, within weeks a freeware solution to their complaint is available.

Just relax and wait.

...dont the new macs consume energy even while in sleep-mode? for a company thats always prided itself on being especially environmentally conceintious, apples just-put-it-on-standby scheme comes as a surprise... anyone else?

[John]

Everyone seems to be missing the thing that Apple (Jobs) talked briefly about at the keynote. The new PowerMacs, and iMacs for that matter were built to sleep.

The iBook itself (even in Rev/A form) is a perfect example of this. The iBook will last a long time in sleep mode, I rarely if ever shut it down for real. In fact, I did not turn it off the entire week I was in NY for the Expo. And I used it upwards of 4 hours on the floor of the expo.

The Cube's power button is on top of the unit, right by the "cooling vents". It's not a button like we're used to. It's a touch sensitive pad, like a trackpad. All you do is run your finger over it (barely) and the computer sleeps or wakes up. This will also turn it on if the machine is turned off (shut down). To shut the machine down, as I understand it, you have to use the shut down command from the menu bar.

Hope that clears things up. The Cube really is awesome in person when you consider the engineering that went into this.

Most computers consume power while SHUT DOWN, SLEEP uses only a very small amount more. Specifically, its enough to keep the ram contents alive and thats about it. There really is no reason anymore to shut-down a computer for conservation reasons. The difference in todays Macs is extremely minimal. Use your hairdryer for a few minutes and you could have let your mac sleep for many days.

[bipto]

Don't mean to be dense, but am I mising something here? Yes, I love the keyboard power button as much as the next guy. I think it shows how superbly crafted and integrated Macs have always been. HOWEVER, can't we all just take the extra second to select Special:Sleep/Restart/Shutdown? I mean, if Apple continued to make all hardware backward compatible with a IIci, where would we be today? OK, OK, I know a G4 bought six weeks ago and a IIci are not in the same league, but you catch my drift. At some point, a change has to be made. So, at some point, someone who just purchased will be left out in the cold.

And besides, as has been said before, when OS X comes out, we will apparntly no longer need power buttons at all...

------------------
brian brown
eweasel.net

[P]

The problem about losing the power button is that you have to break a habit, but as said, I think someone will create an Extension to fix the problem pretty soon. Not providing a shortcut for Sleep/Shutdown is a foolish thing - when you're stressed and have to run, a one key soloution invaluable (as compared to Ctrl-Alt-Delete, Down arrow, Enter on Wintel).

The iMac uses a _very_ small amount of power while in stand-by, and there are features in the iMac DV/G4s/Pismo/iBook to cut that power even more - ctually cutting power to RAM as well. These feautures need software support (Can you say OS X?), but even with power in the RAM it draws very little power.

Finally, let's do a little physics example: Energy is indestructible, so where does it go? It becomes heat, of course. Since your radiators are probably automatic and deactivates when the temperature rises, you save the same amount of energy there, so the environment hardly suffers. Your wallet might, as you likely don't pay the same for a kWh of heat as you do for electricty, but it's so little energy anyway.

You guys are all winers. Perhaps apple left out the powerbutton because everyone one of their computers has an accessible power button of it's own and in the grand scheme of things I'm sure it lowers the price of the keyboard itself. GOD FORBID ANYONE USE THE POWER BUTTON THE COMPUTER ANYMORE. so so lazy.

[wlonh]

repost! the original post was made to its own new thread whe the poster intended it to be here...

Rptleyob
Member

Posts: 11
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 07-26-2000 06:57 PM ÊÊÊ Ê ÊÊ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you have a lab of 30+ Macs to shut down, it is easy just to run along the row and hit power then enter on all the keyboards - a incredible help when you have 50 or more to deal with at once. Also it seems to me that NOT having a power key would make things very inconvenient in terms of force warm reboot and also force quit all apps and shutdown. Other keyboard combinations must exist that use the power button and I use it all the time - that extra convenience is something I have come to enjoy and respect about Apple. Why are they getting rid of it!?!?

Do the Power and Eject buttons generate regular key codes that can be mapped to other buttons using ResEdit or something similar, or do they generate some special signal somehow?

I want F8 to be the Eject button on my old keyboard, and I want it NOW.'

"When you have a lab of 30+ Macs to shut down"

...you should have them tied into OSXS & make physical presense obsolete for mundane tasks such as rebooting.

Some of you guys probably need to stretch and move around once in a while so just reach and push the button. People who complain about wishing they had these types of controls are the same who wished they had a eject button on thier VCR remote.

No, in fact there is no power key on the new apple pro keyboard that came with my new G4/400. HOWEVER, holding down control and pressing the eject key will bring up the standard " Restart Sleep Cancel Shutdown" dialogue. I found this through experimentation as it is not mentioned anywhere in the documentation that came with the computer. I am still searching for the rumored "sleep" button/combination.

Sleep = Command-Option-Eject
Restart = Command-Control-Eject
Shut down = Command-Control-Option-Eject
Restart dialog box = Control-Eject
Macsbug (if you have it installed) = Command-Eject

The restart and shut down key combos will ask if you want to save changes to any open documents. They don't force a reboot. You can do that with the reset button on the computer, or through Macsbug if you have it installed.

[DocWest]

Okay, I got this idea. You could make an applescript that brings up a dialog box like the the standard "restart sleep cancel shutdown" dialog box.
Using applescript, you can make the computer sleep restart and shutdown.
So you make this little script and map it to the F12 key or some other function key.
This would work wouldn't it? I haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure it would work.
Gotta love those inspiration particles

[DocWest]

Damn double post.

well, the bad thing about my idea is that you can't use it to turn on the computer, and that's what it sounds like everyone wants. oh well. i still think it's a good idea though for shutting down, sleeping and restarting.

[This message has been edited by DocWest (edited 07-27-2000).]

This is what I want to be able to do when at my desk: connect Pismo to external monitor/keyboard and mouse. I want to power up the Pismo with the LCD off. To do this, I have to power up with the clamshell closed. They power-on key is inside... so how do I turn it on if I have a Pro keyboard???

Originally posted by spenny16:
You guys are all winers. Perhaps apple left out the powerbutton because everyone one of their computers has an accessible power button of it's own and in the grand scheme of things I'm sure it lowers the price of the keyboard itself. GOD FORBID ANYONE USE THE POWER BUTTON THE COMPUTER ANYMORE. so so lazy.

Originally posted by Schadenfreude:
"When you have a lab of 30+ Macs to shut down"

...you should have them tied into OSXS & make physical presense obsolete for mundane tasks such as rebooting.

Sorry, but the lab is very old. 6100/60AV computers don't quite tie into OS X Server very well. Its not easy convincing some people to buy new Macs these days.

Originally posted by Shamon:
Some of you guys probably need to stretch and move around once in a while so just reach and push the button. People who complain about wishing they had these types of controls are the same who wished they had a eject button on thier VCR remote.

Originally posted by spenny16:
You guys are all winers. Perhaps apple left out the powerbutton because everyone one of their computers has an accessible power button of it's own and in the grand scheme of things I'm sure it lowers the price of the keyboard itself. GOD FORBID ANYONE USE THE POWER BUTTON THE COMPUTER ANYMORE. so so lazy.

The power button is about conveniance and usability, not lazyness. (conveniance of turning the computer on (power key), conviance of the shutdown/restart/sleep dialog box (power key), conveniance of the debug tool (command power), of warm reboot (command option power), of force quit all apps and shutdown (control option command power... I think) Thanks Dorkus Malorkus for posting the new keyboard combos - I wonder if the old ones work just by substituting the eject key. Even if that is the case, the key combinations would make more sense with a real power key.

[Richard Clark]

There are a lot of interesting views here. However, it appears something is being overlooked. OS X will utilize UNIX. The way UNIX works is that it does not need to be restarted. I'm a technician for a publishing company. We have an AIX Server. We almost never restart it and the only time it had to be shut down was when the server room flooded (a whole other story). Because of the way the operating system is set up the OS will run better continuous. If a program crashes it won't crash the entire system. Just restart the program. It appears that Steve Jobs is preparing us to go in that direction. Hence the numerous mentions of putting the system to sleep.

If any UNIX folks can go into more detail on this that would help. I agree that the power key should still be on the keyboard. Although it has lost some of it's functionality since the three finger salute (control, command, power key) was disabled once G3's and G4's came out.

[GORDYmac]

Change is good...

[pascalpp]

Originally posted by Dorkus Malorkus:
Sleep = Command-Option-Eject
Restart = Command-Control-Eject
Shut down = Command-Control-Option-Eject
Restart dialog box = Control-Eject
Macsbug (if you have it installed) = Command-Eject

The restart and shut down key combos will ask if you want to save changes to any open documents. They don't force a reboot. You can do that with the reset button on the computer, or through Macsbug if you have it installed.

where did you get this info? did you find this out by experimentation?