[MacOS761]

Thanks to DocWest... I was about to mention that. I have an AppleScript tied to F9 for sleep, even though I have the original G4 keyboard. I basically never shut it down, otherwise I might do a shutdown script, too. This is the easiest thing to do.. of course, it won't start up your machine.

Originally posted by Richard Clark:
There are a lot of interesting views here. However, it appears something is being overlooked. OS X will utilize UNIX. The way UNIX works is that it does not need to be restarted. I'm a technician for a publishing company. We have an AIX Server. We almost never restart it and the only time it had to be shut down was when the server room flooded (a whole other story). Because of the way the operating system is set up the OS will run better continuous. If a program crashes it won't crash the entire system. Just restart the program. It appears that Steve Jobs is preparing us to go in that direction. Hence the numerous mentions of putting the system to sleep.

If any UNIX folks can go into more detail on this that would help. I agree that the power key should still be on the keyboard. Although it has lost some of it's functionality since the three finger salute (control, command, power key) was disabled once G3's and G4's came out.

What about adding/removing/changing hardware? Relocating the computer? There are still a number of things for which shutting down is required.

[Don Foy]

As to the key combination for forced sleep, I found it by accident (OS 9.0.4) I was working in Quark and instead of hitting command -option 0 (zero, not O) my fingers didn't do what my brain said and hit command-shift-0.,

I thought I had killed it, but when I hit the mouse, everything came back. It went to sleep. Try the command-shift 0 combination.

[Maccelerate]

COMPLETELY UNMENTIONED YET is that some people have no choice as to where the computer is placed. I have clients with a G3 on the floor, sideways, behind a bookshelf. How in Steve Job's name are we supposed to turn on the D@MN thing from there? Also, there is a minority of users who have G3/G4's in a rack mounted system with a single keyboard and a switchbox. Ok, now what's the 411 on starting up, configuration, monitor setup, etc.??

For a real innovation, how about all the ports in the front of the computer where normal people would interface with them every day? Other vendors do so. Even the iMac brought the ports around to the side. Better, but still a reach. Imagine you only have one inch against a wall (my current situation) to place your iMac. Buy a hub, right? Well, should I mount the hub on the wall? We're talking space here.

Just one more level of control removed by Apple. Limited choices on peripherals, software and now hardware integral to the function of the computer. It is no longer a tool for us, we are the tools.

[Lyra]

Some guy posted that Change was good...

Well I disagree when the change is but an annoyance... I think it is a very poor thing Apple did to remove the Power button.
I'd like to know anyone out there who has something against the power button on the Keyboard...

I know of no one, it has been there for so long and people who don't use it may choose not to, on the other hand it is wonderful for those who simply love to turn on and off their Macs by simply pressing a cool little button on their keyboard...

That was one of the things that I feel made Apple CPUs special, all the nifty little things that were unique.

I personally am sick and tired of things like this, why was it so damn necessary to change that one thing!!!

Apple wasn't take too much control over their customers, I don't appreciate that.

First Apple gives up a preview of Mac OS X which has some frightening changes too it, but not too dramatically. I am one who waits with great joy to see how my G4 400 will run on a MacOS X.

Still making so much changes to the Mac is not always good. For the moment , I believe that Apple should stick with making the Mac CPU the best there is instead of selling by their Design.

Every time Apple comes with something New, I am sure most people feel a bit afraid that their CPU will no longer be compatible with all the new stuff Apple will offer their customers.

Apple will neglect all their old users and focus mainly on new ones instead of appreciate those who support them.

Aarrhh...

I was hoping Apple to listen to their consumers and make Macs like they did in the old days...
Make them to US and not to the market...

Oh well... Listen I am sorry if I hurt anyones feelings by posting this, it wasn't my intention. But I am a but angry with Apple at the moment...
There is no clear view of their Pro Models anymore etc...

I just had to get off my chest...
(I did get screwed once by Apple so that is why I am a bit frustrated)

You know... I must say this before I go, I do however trust Steve Jobs 110% and I am sure he has some reason to this...

I just hope there is a bigger plan behind all this...

Only Time will tell...

------------------
“For I gazed into the future, far as human eyes could see,
saw the vision of the
world , and all the wonders that would be.”

[This message has been edited by Lyra (edited 07-27-2000).]

[MacOS761]

The good "change" and the answer to Maccelerate is that you can (still) turn on the computer using the monitor power button (or pad, now). That also can shut down/sleep (it brings up the dlog box). I think this fact had been neglected. I assume users will have their monitors close at hand????

[Applefreak01]

I think the new Keyboard will be a great addition for my iMac Rev. A. As for the power key issue, I'll just use the power key on the front of the computer.

one thing i've noticed at work: sometimes the power button on Rev A Slot-Loading iMacs ges stuck in. wen you try to turn it on via the keyboard, the CPU power button, in the IN position, overrides it. same with the side reset button. one of the iMas actually had to have it's lower casing replaced (the ice plastic around the power button) because the button wouldn't come back out (a peice of plastic was making it stick)
therefore, we have a standing rule at the lab: never hit the CPU power button. obviously, that might be a problem with new keyboards.

but, then again, we just bought these machines, so we're going to be using them, cramped but power-keyed keyboards and all, for the next five-ish years, so it's not a big deal here.

Originally posted by Uncommon:
Tilt back the cube?? That doesn't sound convenient at all, especialy for a developer who may have to do that several times a day.

I don't believe that the Cube is targetted at developers. From what I've read, the Cube is targetted at home users who want "a little bit more" than an iMac. Most ordinary users seldom, if ever, need to use the reset button.

While this may sound overly optimistic, I don't think that it's any more optimistic than the idea of never needing to shut down the computer in the first place. ;o)

Incidentally, is the Cube is put to sleep and then unplugged (because a user thinks it's "off"), will that cause a great potential for loss of data?

[tooki]

It is for that reason that the Cube - just like any other Mac that can sleep - has a pulsating light to let you know what's going on. If a user doesn't take the half-second to look at it, well, that's his problem.

As for loss of data, the Cube is no more or less sensitive than any other machine running Mac OS 9.0.4.

tooki

What about PowerBooks? I don't particularly want to put my PB to sleep for too long, as the battery may well run out. (Anyone notice that Apple have still not re-introduced 'Sleep and Save' since the original version had problems.) And anyway, the sleep function does not work on my PB, despite trying out the various tips I have seen on the web (e.g. remove SoundJam extension).

Originally posted by Richard Clark:
There are a lot of interesting views here. However, it appears something is being overlooked. OS X will utilize UNIX. The way UNIX works is that it does not need to be restarted. I'm a technician for a publishing company. We have an AIX Server. We almost never restart it and the only time it had to be shut down was when the server room flooded (a whole other story). Because of the way the operating system is set up the OS will run better continuous. If a program crashes it won't crash the entire system. Just restart the program. It appears that Steve Jobs is preparing us to go in that direction. Hence the numerous mentions of putting the system to sleep.

The "How to Power On and Off" doc listed below,

http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n58677 ,

lets the show drop. Since you (at least until third parties --- what do you think, six months from now? --- come out with display adapter cords for third party monitors, older Apple displays, &c., you have to buy one of the current generation of Apple monitors if you want the digital output..... and it says,

To turn on the Power Mac G4 Cube computer, press its power button or the power
button on an Apple display with Apple Display Connector that is connected to the
computer. Touch the power button with the flat part of your finger and hold it
there briefly.

If you have one of their new monitors, the _monitor_ turns on the Cube (or, presumably, the new "standard" G4's), rather than the keyboard. Slick, but expensive. Savvy Wall Street analysts should appreciate the higher gross margins.

Think different.

Joe Gurman

[luap82]

ok im gunna ask a stupid question...what are the two small buttons on the front of the G3/G4s? the reverse triangle and the -v- thing. I suppose the triangle is a reset, but i dont have a G3 or G4 so i havent had a chance to try either out. let me know.
-LUAP