Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

zurek106 · Oct 26, 2001, 11:25 PM

I was wondering if I should buy the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical, which seems to be a great product? As must as I hate to support microsoft, I have to say this seems to be a good product. With a scroll wheel, programable buttons so that I can just press a button and go back a page in IE. Also does anyone know if it is supported for OS X?
Any help is appreciated!
-Dan

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: zurek106 ]

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: zurek106 ]

appleseed · Oct 27, 2001, 06:40 AM

There are other options that match or even better the functionality of the MS Intellimouse Optical. For example, the Kensington Mouse-in-a-Box Optical Pro, www.kensington.com, with four programmable buttons and a scroll wheel, already has native driver support for OS X, Similarly, Logitech mice support Mac OS9 and plan OS X support.

That said, I believe OS X.1 does have basic built-in support for right button button CTRL-click and the scroll wheel, but does not allow configuration of these functions. So, the MS Intellimouse should be able to tap into this functionality. I haven't been able to test this because I use the Apple Pro mouse, which does have great optical tracking, but could do with an extra button and a wheel - heresy, I know.

Oct 27, 2001, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by appleseed:
That said, I believe OS X.1 does have basic built-in support for right button

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It took Apple 10 OS versions to get a second mouse button.

Jesus, if that's not pathetic, I don't know what is.

iTube · Oct 27, 2001, 07:47 AM

From experience I can say that the Kensington mouse drivers are not very reliable or stable. I've got 1 Kensington optical mouse, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I've got an MS Intellimouse explorer on order to replace it.

-Q- · Oct 27, 2001, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by zurek106:
I was wondering if I should buy the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical, which seems to be a great product? As must as I hate to support microsoft, I have to say this seems to be a good product. With a scroll wheel, programable buttons so that I can just press a button and go back a page in IE. Also does anyone know if it is supported for OS X?
Any help is appreciated!
-Dan

I have both the MS Intellimouse and the Kensington Optical Pro and I have to say I prefer the MS mouse. It has better ergonomics (if you're right-handed anyway) and it seems more sturdy.

As for using it in X, the left and right click is supported as is the scroll wheel. The two extra buttons don't do anything and probably won't until the drivers are completed (and are currently being worked on and should be out before the end of the year from what I understand).

I'd have to recommend the MS Mouse...

bowwowman · Oct 27, 2001, 10:02 AM

Although I thoroughly dislike Windblows and MS's business practices, I have to say that their mice and keyboards are nice, well made and reasonably priced. My Intellimouse optical works very well, as does my iPro keyboard. Both work fine in 9 & X, although advanced functions are limited in X right now by lack of proper drivers.

Kensington's products are good too, but their drivers are trashy and unstable

HTH

[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: bowwowman ]

appleseed · Oct 27, 2001, 10:18 AM

I've never had any problems with the Kensington drivers, but as you'll find, your mileage may vary. Still, in terms of optical tracking the Apple Pro Mouse does not suffer from the aberrant mistracking that is associated with many optical mice.

wiggles wrote:

>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>It took Apple 10 OS versions to get a second mouse button.
>Jesus, if that's not pathetic, I don't know what is.

As for the above stock response: zzzzzzz. Originality really isn't something PC users worry about, and this apparently transcends all aspect of their lives.

Oddly enough, the late implementation of a second mouse button in the Mac OS was a conceptually driven decision. Two button mice and context sensitive menus have always been something that could be easily accessed, but then that's not going to wash with PC users who have to add even basic functionality such as ethernet, firewire, WiFi and the rest ad nauseam. Won't even start on what PC operating systems can't do out of the box.

Apple Pro Underwear · Oct 27, 2001, 10:29 AM

apple pro mouse is basically the best mouse i have ever used. The second is a kensington scroll mouse. Both are great, but i'd take the apple pro just to thumb my nose at PC users.

And wiggles, Two Words for ya.

POWER USER.

Quick keys blow away wintel counterparts and is the reason macs are standard for Design Proffessionals. By the way, Microsoft's design in-house design studio in Seattle, Oregon and NY all use Macs.

DNA man · Oct 27, 2001, 02:06 PM

I use the M$ intellimouse and it is great as far as I'm concerned. esp fpr web surfing.
I was going to buy the Apple Pro mouse but it did not have a scroll wheel or other buttons. As much as I am a pro-Mac person, i do like the scroll wheel and the added functionality a second (or more) buttons give. There are no drivers yet for OSX.1 though which is a pain.
Ergo-wise, the M$ mouse is very good indeed and I can't fault it. Sorry Apple, the M$ mouse is cheaper too!
Go get yourself a M$ mouse and don't worry about supporting M$.
DNA man

zac4mac · Oct 27, 2001, 02:32 PM

I use an Intellimouse Explorer on my duallie at home and a Kensington scroll-wheel optical on my 8500 at work.
One-button mice suck.. Steve needs to pull his head out.

Go away "wiggles"

[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: zac4mac ]

sek929 · Oct 27, 2001, 03:34 PM

Buy the M$, beautiful ergonomics, flawless operation, and <gasp> very easy installation....

It amost doesn't seem like an M$ product at all.............

zac4mac · Oct 27, 2001, 05:01 PM

"It amost doesn't seem like an M$ product at all..."

From what I hear, it was designed by Agilent(HP) and it's the best mouse I've ever used.

I hate having to wipe cookie crumbs or popcorn butter off my left hand to press a "modifier" key.

Z

LeeG · Oct 27, 2001, 06:46 PM

I have had the intellimouse explorer for over a year now, and I love it. Its a very well made,reliable product, and I cant recommend it enough. Though I understand people's reluctance to support M$, my view is I am willing to pay for the best product out there- this is the best mouse I have used. I do not feel WinBlows is the best OS, thus I do not use it. But I have no problem using M$ products that are good - we should ENCOURAGE any company (M$ included)to continue to develop great MAC compatible products, that being said, WHERE ARE THE OSX drivers????????? This must Happen...

Lee

OldManMac · Oct 27, 2001, 08:58 PM

I've used the M$ Intellimouse Explorer for over a year also, and I think it's the best mouse I've ever used (I have a chest of drawers in the basement that has one large drawer full of mice). The ergonomics are excellent, and most of the functions work in 10.1. You would have to pry this from my cold, dead, fingers to get it from me.

vmarks · Oct 27, 2001, 09:29 PM

I have the MS optical mouse, the kensington optical mouse in a box, and the logitech optical mouse.

MS - $25 after rebate
Kensington - $19 at sears
Logitech - $14.99

They all work beautifully in OS X 10.1
in 9, the MS isn't so bad. Haven't bothered trying the others in 9, with as little as I boot back to 9.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

TiG4 · Oct 27, 2001, 09:53 PM

As much as I support Mac products, I prefer the MS Optical mouse to the Apple Pro Mouse.
Worked like a charm in OS 9.2

Anxiously awaiting OS X support though...

John B. Smith · Oct 27, 2001, 10:35 PM

Jesus, if that's not pathetic, I don't know what is.

"wiggles"- even though pagans and godless men are allowed on the internet, we'd appreciate it if you didn't take the Lord's name in vain.. you do have a habit of doing that

WizOSX · Oct 27, 2001, 10:39 PM

For a few years now Mac users have been envying the two button, scroll wheel mice used on Windows machines. There is, however, a real downside to them which I have yet to see anyone in the Mac forums mention. For about five years I used them exclusively and really liked the productivity advantages (I do a lot of graphics work, fine placement of objects on screen, etc.) One morning I woke up and my right hand was seized shut in a "fist" and I couldn't open my hand up. Very painful. I had to take fairly strong muscle relaxants (prescription) and slowly, over about ten days, I was able to use my hand, but definitely not for computer work. At first I trained myself to use my old mice with my left hand but using my right hand was always painful. When the Apple Pro mouse came out it was like a Godsend for me.

The point is that two button mice, and especially the MS type, force your first finger to work in one and only one way and carpal tunnel problems are almost inevitable. With the Apple Pro mouse, if one finger/muscle postion begins getting overused, you naturally shift slightly, much as we do with a pen or pencil (every wonder why we don't get carpal tunnel from them?). I can only guess that this type of problem has not hit the Mac community because people have not been using the two button, scroll wheel mice long enough.

I personally hope that Apple does not begin producing two button mice--then we will begin to be forced to use them in OSX. There is an old saying--"Be careful what you wish for, you might get it." Hopefully, my experience will help someone avoid a lot of pain.

philzilla · Oct 27, 2001, 10:47 PM

i hate the way it says Micro$oft on the back of the friggin' thing. i've considered scratching it off before now. i like the glowy red bit, but i've got to do something about the other problem. my hand even sits on it in such a way, that it doesn't touch the offensive word. ick!

WizOSX · Oct 28, 2001, 07:27 AM

I agree with "Apple Pro Underwear"-- the Apple Pro mouse is BY FAR the best mouse I have ever used. And I've owned 20-30 mice ever since I bought my first in 1984--the one made for the Apple II just before the Mac came out.

For my reasons, PLEASE see my post from yesterday.

Bostic · Oct 28, 2001, 09:01 AM

I purchased the Microsoft Laptop mouse to have use of the scroll wheel and 2nd button. It's very basic in design and is not optical, but fits my smaller sized hands in an ergonomic manner. The design is exactly the same as the MS Wheel Mouse, but it's a stealth black color, and has a short USB cord (perfect to plug into the Apple Pro Keyboard). No drivers for it yet, but the native 10.1 work fine for me.

zac4mac · Oct 28, 2001, 09:28 AM

Wiz - I think you hit on the key to avoiding carpal and didn't realise it.
Simply re-adjust your hand position periodically. Stretch you hands and fingers, too.
I've been using this Intellimouse almost a year w/ no problems in my wrist and no cookie crumbs(well, very few) in my nice Pro-keyboard.

As I said before - single button mice suck

Z

WizOSX · Oct 28, 2001, 11:41 AM

zac4mac -- your suggestion is quite reasonable for certain kinds of work (operating the interface, highlighting text, etc.).

The problem comes in when you must do nearly all of your "mousework" by keeping the mouse button held down for long periods of time and doing very fine adjustments. The two-button mouse forces you into one postion because you must use the muscles that go from the first finger, across the palm and into the wrist. With the single button Pro Mouse you can actually use pressure from any of your fingers to do the job and keep varying how you do it slightly. From my point of view, the thinking that went behind the design of the Apple Pro mouse was pure genius.

DyslexicCow · Oct 28, 2001, 02:14 PM

Great mouse, I own three of them for all of my computers. I just wish MS would hurry up and release drivers for OS X, the default speed of OS x is way too slow even on it's highest setting. I bought a Kensington mouse just to hold me over, but It's so very uncomfortable. The beta drivers(and i think even the drivers for OS 9) don't allow you to set the buttons on the side of the kensington mouse for forward and backwards for web browsers, like the MS mouse does.

zac4mac · Oct 28, 2001, 03:06 PM

In 10.1 now and the mouse is painfully slow. Just went by M$'s website to make my weekly request for OS X drivers for the intellimouse. I heartily encourage any of you with M$ mice to do the same. Try this link, hope it works. Someday this thing will work in X, probably about the time Adobe finally ships PhotoShopX.
http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.asp?

Oink · Oct 28, 2001, 06:20 PM

First thing I bought after my Macintosh IIci was an optical "little mouse", made by Mousesystem. That was 1990. It is to date still functional. I have since had a MacAlly optical mouse, not recommended, the other 2 buttons do NADA! and the Microsoft Intellimouse explorer. The only complain about it is that it is too big and the cord too long for travelling use. The cheaper Intellimouse would have suited me better. Driver is good, except it does have some problem with certain VISE based installers. It is acknowledged by Adobe. You can however turn the driver off temporarily... No mice made after 2000 should have only one button!

Another thing, if only I can turn off/disable the gratutious LED at the tip of the mouse.

dn15 · Oct 28, 2001, 06:55 PM

That Intellimouse is probably fine, though FWIW I have a Logitech Wheel Mouse (also optical, scroll wheel, two buttons, and a third if you count the clickable scroll wheel.) It's been great so far and works in both OS 9 and X.

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: dn15 ]

timmerk · Oct 28, 2001, 07:16 PM

How much are these things? I can get any MS hardware for free, new, still shrink wrapped. Maybe I should get a whole bunch for free and sell them on eBay? Hehehe....

michaelb · Oct 28, 2001, 08:45 PM

Personal unrecommendation:

I wouldn't touch another one with a barge pole.

I bought a MS Intellimouse Explorer and soon after developed pain in my wrist.

An osteo told me that wheel mice are notorious for doing that in susceptible individuals.

Advice: use a non-wheel mouse at a comfortable angle and drink lots of water while using a computer.

FridgeMagnet · Oct 29, 2001, 02:33 AM

I have 2 microsoft optical mice and I have problems with both, I bought them because I wanted to use them for graphics work and not have to worry about a wheel hitting a bit of fluff and making my curves go squiffy, but I've found that these mice seem to jerk around almost as much as a wheel mouse, I've tried them on different surfaces with varying degrees of improvment but they're never perfect.

Does anyone have any tips on this? would a Kensington be better or is it just the nature of optical mice?

Other than that I think they're great, and if Microsoft ever get their thumb out and cough up some OSX drivers, they'll be even better

I think there's a lot to be said for a single button mouse though, I had a friend round last night and I was trying to teach her some stuff and she had a hard time remembering which button to press to do stuff, for ease of use a single button can't be beat and that's what Apple is all about, making access to this sort of technology simpler, but I think they should offer a choice of pro mouse as well these days.

malvolio · Oct 29, 2001, 12:36 PM

Okay, first off let me state that I have never used a M$ Intellimouse. Bearing that in mind, I just LOVE the Kensington mice. I'm currently using the 5-button (counting the clickable scroll wheel) Mouse-in-a-Box Optical Pro, recently reduced in price from $40 to $30. I've used it in OS 9.x, 10.0.x and 10.1. Never had the slightest trouble with the drivers, or carpal tunnel syndrome.

zurek106 · Oct 29, 2001, 03:58 PM

Wow, thanks for all the feedback! I really appreciate it. I posted this message thinking that I would buy the Microsoft Intellimouse, but now im not so sure. I am positive that I am going to buy a mouse that has atleast 2 buttons with a wheel. I prefer the mice that have 2 more buttons so that you can go back and forth really quickly when browsing the internet. I am not worried about getting carpal tunnel, since I dont use my computer for more than 3 hours on the weekdays, and 6 hours on the weekend.

I just can't stand how you have to click and hold on a link then drag down to open a link up in a new window! Its just anoying! I defintely agree with the fact that Apple should come out with a mouse with 2 buttons plus a wheel. Wheels are great to use to scroll down on page, I just find it anoying going to the scroll down bar and dragging it and then having to pick my mouse up and place it farther up on my mouse pad!

So basically its between the Kensington mouse and the Microsoft Mouse. I like how the kensington mouse is cheaper and the programmable buttons are now supported in X??? (since I use X) I like the microsoft intellimouse Explorer mouse how it is comfortable, and has the two buttons on the left side, b/c with the kensington mouse the buttons are with one on the right and one on the left, and i find that it would be awkward using my ring finer for a button.

So if you could just reply saying Microsoft Intellimouse Optical or Microsoft intellimouse Explorer or Kensington Mouse in a box, that would help out a lot.
Thanks,
Dan

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: zurek106 ]

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: zurek106 ]

juanvaldes · Oct 30, 2001, 02:25 PM

Guess I should throw in my M$ story....

My father and I got the intellimouse right after it was released. It was great, smooth (was using a Orbit) scroll wheel was great, right click for gaming, and programmable buttons for whatever else.

then the troubles began...
The mouse would periodically die. Just stops working. It will come back after a while... This went on for some 9 months until it just flat out died. After a few days and many many hours on M$ website and phone system my father was able to get the # to call to get a replacement mouse.

now to my troubles...almost of year of no headaches then mine started dying too. At first it would just stop working from time to time, then it started acting random. The cursor would randomly shoot over the screen to the lower right corner. Random and annoying.

But I still love this mouse, if only it would stop acting up.

But what really gets my goat is that every time I call M$ to get a replacement it's BUSY! All day any day. I have been trying for over 3 months now, I think they might win this one, I am getting sick and tried to calling them up to get a busy signal instead of a functional mouse!

simonjames · Oct 30, 2001, 03:47 PM

I have had the Intellimouse explorer now for one and a half years - it is the best mouse I have ever owned. The buttons and scroll wheel are perfect and so is the size - I am 6'4" and so I have a large-ish hand - the intellimouse is the perfect size.

I too had one die on me - it is a known problem - M$ were polite and helpful - they replaced the mouse within one week.

I also have their natural pro keyboard - it too is great - I recommend both M$ devices - pity they don't colour match my G4

Brit Ben · Oct 30, 2001, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by simonjames:
I have had the Intellimouse explorer now for one and a half years - it is the best mouse I have ever owned. The buttons and scroll wheel are perfect and so is the size - I am 6'4" and so I have a large-ish hand - the intellimouse is the perfect size.

I too had one die on me - it is a known problem - M$ were polite and helpful - they replaced the mouse within one week.

I also have their natural pro keyboard - it too is great - I recommend both M$ devices - pity they don't colour match my G4

Yep, Mine died too. I haven't had a chance to replace it, since I bought in the UK and now live in Canada. It lasted over a year of daily use and abuse, including a very frustrated slamming against my desk every time winblows blew up. Then I moved to a mac, it came with me, and had a nice peaceful life until it passed away one day on a business trip. Pity. It was really rather well color matched for the TiPB G4.

I'm looking at replacing it with the Kensington optical trackball.
Same hack - swap red LED for blue

Ben.

chabig · Nov 1, 2001, 10:05 AM

I too love the Microsoft mice and recommend them. One failed once, but Microsoft support was great--they mailed a new one to me no questions asked.

I don't use Microsoft's software, though. USB Overdrive is fantastic under OS 9. OS X doesn't need special drivers if you only want to use the two mouse buttons and the scrollwheel. They just work. I suppose special drivers are necessary to enable the other buttons.