[Raman]

Why in the hell is Apple only letting peple with ADC's use their LCDs?

Don't talk to me about the ADC/DVI cable because I don't see an Apple logo on it.

If they want to start selling LCD's they should dump the stupid ADC and have a DVI, analog, and USB port on the back of their LCD's; like the other MFR's. THEN if you WANT buy a cable from Apple that lets you hook the power, DVI, USB to that single cable and then plug it in to their respecive ports on the LCD so it looks nice and neat like Apple wants you to have it.

I want an Apple LCD but being forced to not be able to use it on my Pismo is rediculous! And I'm certainly not going to buy another Apple so that I can use their LCD's. I'll end up buying a ho-hum one from Sony or Samsung or something..

Yeah, I know the analog won't look as good as digital but at least I'll be able to upgrade in the future to an Apple with a DVI.

Its great for Apple to innovate but cmon, DVI is a standard - use it and you'll sell LCD's to people who will have to buy from someone else if you don't..

[G4ME]

Face it buddy if you want the coolest hardware then you need the newest hardware I hate these post saying why can't my old beige G3 233 have a Geforce 3 and ADC face it Apple has moved on from VGA and DVI and so should you if you want that monitor. it Jobs way of putting his foot down and saying I am an original I can create something new. The LCD isn't desinged to beused buy a laptop its for a G4 a sationary system. I if you wanted a large monitor then go with a desktop system, or a Ti Book for that. Everyone can't have their own way, thats just life.

[imacaholic]

Apple ditched the floppy and everyone survived. You STILL hear people complain about that one! Technology changes. That is just the way it is. Darwinism: adapt or perish and survival of the fittest. Apple is adapting new technologies and that is good for the survival of the company. They have always been innovative and I hope it will continue. Sorry you feel so slighted but Apple can't please everyone.

[AirSluf]

[vasu]

I can see where Raman is coming from. I have a Powerbook G4 which could be considered to be "the newest hardware". It's newer than the Summer2000 G4 Towers and Cube. You can't connect ADC based Displays to it (there may be a costly VGA --> DVI --> ADC connector?). You can't connect one to an iMac (Early 2001 edition) that is newer than the Summer2000 G4 or Cube), nor can you to the iBook (dual USB edition) that is newer than the Summer2000 G4 or the Cube), or even the "professional"/desktop replacement Powerbook G4 (Titanium) that is newer than the G4 or Cube. So although many people do have "the newest hardware" the still can't use an ADC based monitor.

AirSluf : an example using a 540c isn't the same because they weren't being produced when ADC was introduced. Granted, production of Pismo Powerbooks was already winding down when ADC was coming out last summer. Computers that are newer than that summer, and that are made by Apple, have no way of connecting to an ADC based display.

There are mobile professionals that would like to come home and connect their TiBooks to a Apple Cinema Display. And although the case can be made that a mobile professional with a TiBook, and a Cinema Display could/would have a new G4 Tower or Cube to connect that Cinema display, that's not always the case. Just because that may be the case with some of them, there are many that don't have that kind of money.

I understand that technically it probably is impossible to have ADC on the Powerbook G4 (01/09/01 introduction), "Early 2001" iMacs (02/21/01 introduction), and the "Dual USB" iBooks (05/02/01 introduction) even though they were produced after the invention, introduction, and deployment of ADC by Apple during the Summer of 2000. However I think Apple should provide some backwards compatible format to connect to these machines. Either have an adapter come in the box of the displays, or in the box of the computers that don't support ADC even though they are newer than machines that do have it already (older G4's and all Cubes).

"Apple is adapting new technologies and that is good for the survival of the company."

I agree with that, but in the same vein they should make it compatible with the other computers that they sell that are newer than older ones that do support it. Just because I have a Powerbook G4 (so that I can have a big screen in a mobile environment) doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to use a bigger 17" or 22" screen made by the same company. Just because I wanted something mobile, I am not entitled to a simple, super sharp, beautiful display that should work (because my computer is newer than ADC.)

I'm not taking sides, but I can definitely see Raman's point. I spent $3500 for my Powerbook G4 (newer than ADC, Cubes, G4 Towers), and one would expect it to be able to be compatible with all of Apple's current technologies. As a "Pro" product, it should have some method of connectivity to an ADC Display.

Newer computers made by Apple should be able to connect to their newer monitors. Pismo came before ADC, so it's completely understandable as to why it doesn't have ADC. However, 3/5 of the computers that Apple sells are newer than ADC, and even newer than the Cube (which supports ADC) and I think that people who buy these computers should be entitled to some method of connection to Displays that Apple makes as well. It's just not the same to have a beautiful and gorgeous iMac, Powerbook G4, or iBook and have to buy some clunky, squarish, beige monitor/LCD. Apple may be the first all LCD computer maker, but it sure would be nice to able to connect their own LCD's to 60% of their own product matrix.

[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: vasu ]

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

Just buy a different brand LCD. You save money and get a product that is at least as good, if not better. I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an Apple display, since Apple charges extra just because it's an Apple.

Yeah the ADC is a stupid idea, nothing new from Apple here. It's so stupid, that it prevents an Apple laptop user from using an Apple display with their Apple laptop! LOL! It must have taken a real genius to come up with that one.

And of course all the Apple zealots here come running to defend Apple, with lame excuses like, "if you want the best you have to buy the newest...don't expect ADC to work with a Beige 68K Macintosh plus". If these twits had read the post, they would have seen that this poor guy has a PISMO, and there is not a single Apple laptop in existence that will run one of Apple's ADC monitors. If Apple had any sense they would stick with industry standards on their displays, or better yet, stop making displays. Because Mac users can buy a Sony or Mistubishi LCD display for less money than an Apple display. Why blow hard earned cash just so the logos match on your display and computer?

[maxintosh]

Just buy a different brand LCD. You save money and get a product that is at least as good, if not better. I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an Apple display, since Apple charges extra just because it's an Apple.

I disagree. Apple's re-pricing is pretty darn competitive (few 15" LCDs are cheaper) and the reviews always give the nod to Apple's LCD, saying it's one of the sharpest and brightest around. (Even C|NET!) Yes, it's a shame that it won't run on some machines, but they designed them to be bought with new desktop machines. ADC is really convenient and I appreciate the reduction in cable clutter. This is also the nicest screen I've looked at, it makes my Pismo's screen look dark and murky. Oh well...

If you can't connect it, then yes, go buy a third-party display. But if you have an ADC/DVI-to-ACD, Apple's displays are gorgeous.

Maxintosh

[cube-dude]

Transfering thread to Peripherals forum

[mike one]

i would seriously consider buying an apple branded 15" lcd to replace my sony 17" 200es which has worked perfectly for the past 2.5 years. but, i have a g3 350, and i'm not feeling like: a) buying a g4, or b) having to drop an extra 30-50 duckets on a vga-adc adapter.


apple, i'm not feeling the love. the money is staying in my pocket.

[Ken_F2]

I would also suggest looking to another brand of LCD. The ADC->DVI adapters are just too expensive right now to be viable, unless you're looking at the 22" ACD. Although nothing is available that matches Apple's 22" Cinema Display, the rest of their LCDs offer no real advantage over much of the competition. Some products from other vendors are even better in the 17" and 18" range.



Personally, if I were in the market for another LCD, I would want to take a serious look at Sony's new SDM-M81 LCD (pictured above). Reports from Europe are that its by far Sony's best LCD yet. Plus, it's the industry leader in price/size; the MSRP of the new 18.1" screen is $1299, and it is going for as low as $1150 through mail order. It's not widely available in the USA yet, but should be by the end of the month. Keep your eye out for reviews.

Originally posted by imacaholic:
<STRONG>Apple ditched the floppy and everyone survived. You STILL hear people complain about that one! Technology changes. That is just the way it is. Darwinism: adapt or perish and survival of the fittest. Apple is adapting new technologies and that is good for the survival of the company. They have always been innovative and I hope it will continue. Sorry you feel so slighted but Apple can't please everyone.</STRONG>

You can buy an external floppy for less than $60 on ebay.

Apple ditched it because they thought it was old technology.

More than 99% of all consumer video cards have 15 pin dsub connectors. fine these are analog. so there's a DVI standard which the higher-end consumer video cards have to push digital signals.

Why can't apple use the DVI connector? Is DVI outdated too, like the floppy?

Originally posted by AirSluf:
<STRONG>ADC does use the DVI standard, pin for pin, that's why you can drive a DVI monitor off an ADC port with a simple pass thru adaptor. It just adds functionality by routing power and USB through the same cable and connection.

Why don't I complain about my 540c not having a DVI out port? Isn't that about the same thing? Aren't I entitled to my machine being delivered with every technology that might come along over the next 5 years???

Cut the whining, solutions exist if you want the Apple monitor.</STRONG>

your 540c is retired hardware like no other.

the titanium and ibook have VGA 15 pin d-sub connector/outputs. they are all current apple hardware. you can't even use an apple monitor on your apple now. well, not unless you want to use discontinued hardware.

there's no need for apple to create another connector. the reason they are probably doing this is so that they force you to buy a whole mac so that you can use their monitor which is b$. too bad because i will have to look elsewhere, along with other people that own both mac's and pc's who would pay for 1 very nice monitor to use on both machines.

Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>Just buy a different brand LCD. You save money and get a product that is at least as good, if not better. I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an Apple display, since Apple charges extra just because it's an Apple.

Yeah the ADC is a stupid idea, nothing new from Apple here. It's so stupid, that it prevents an Apple laptop user from using an Apple display with their Apple laptop! LOL! It must have taken a real genius to come up with that one.

And of course all the Apple zealots here come running to defend Apple, with lame excuses like, "if you want the best you have to buy the newest...don't expect ADC to work with a Beige 68K Macintosh plus". If these twits had read the post, they would have seen that this poor guy has a PISMO, and there is not a single Apple laptop in existence that will run one of Apple's ADC monitors. If Apple had any sense they would stick with industry standards on their displays, or better yet, stop making displays. Because Mac users can buy a Sony or Mistubishi LCD display for less money than an Apple display. Why blow hard earned cash just so the logos match on your display and computer?</STRONG>

According to the specs and my eyes, apple display show a better picture than others that i've looked at in teh same price range. just for kicks i compared the 15" apple lcd to other companies' 15" offerings. Apples provides the highest level of contrast as well as the largest viewing angles.

That's why i want an apple and that's why i'm bitching. if there's anotehr company that produces one as good and at the same price point as apples and has analog and dvi connectors on teh back (like samsungs matrix looking ones) then i'm all over it.

i own too many computers to by montors for all of them. i'd rather buy 1 really really really really really good 22" or a few 15 or 17's instead.

Originally posted by mike one:
<STRONG>i would seriously consider buying an apple branded 15" lcd to replace my sony 17" 200es which has worked perfectly for the past 2.5 years. but, i have a g3 350, and i'm not feeling like: a) buying a g4, or b) having to drop an extra 30-50 duckets on a vga-adc adapter.


apple, i'm not feeling the love. the money is staying in my pocket.
</STRONG>

I don't know how many US $'s=30-50 duckets but a vga to adc connector doesn't come that cheap!

the vga to dvi connector was $300 and dvi to adc was like $100 i believe.

for that price you can buy another (pc brand) LCD instead! WTF?!

Does anyone know who makes the actual LCD in Apples monitors??

[Justin Morgan]

It's probably a safe bet that Apple LCD's are manufactured by Samsung.

[AirSluf]

[DoctorGonzo]

Why can't apple use the DVI connector? Is DVI outdated too, like the floppy?

DVI is still fine, and Apple did use them up until last year. The Cinema Display origionally shipped with a DVI connector (I pity anyone who bought one the first year and then needed to use it on another Mac). The ADC is another attempt at super-simplyfing Macs. However, I never knew anyone who struggled with the concept of a monitor cable and a monitor power cable.

The ADC is just not worth it.

[Sven G]

Well...

DVI is certainly not an obsolete standard - quite the contrary!

Personally, I'm now replacing a LaCie CRT "electron22blue" with a LaCie LCD "photon18blue" - which is a *great* "professional" display:




... And... It has *both* DVI (digital) and VGA (analog) ports - that is, the ultimate in compatibility (also for portables)!

I am also planning to get a second "photon18blue", thus being able to have a larger effective screen real estate than the Cinema Display.

And, by the way... I've just sent feedback to Apple as regards the "Pivot" software, which enables the 90° "portrait" rotation of the display: I think Apple should *definitely* include this feature - as soon as possible! - in future Mac OS X releases (as "Portrait", the maker of that software, still (?!?) has no plans to make an OS X native version: simply *incredible*, as that would mean the impossibility to use pivoting displays natively under X - that's why Apple should provide a solution as soon as possible!!!).

ADC is a very interesting emerging standard - but Apple should indeed provide the broadest compatibility with *existing* standards, as DVI...

[ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Sven G ]

[exa]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet... but last I checked... Apple moved from DVI to ADC because ADC is a better implementation. Their previous monitors using DVI were having power issues and resulted in dead monitors. THATS why Apple moved to ADC, it is superior and does not kill the monitor.

I really don't like it how so many people fail to see the truths and backgrounds behind Apple's 'innovations', they all have a purpose... not necessairly for lining Apple's pockets.

Then again, I may be wrong...

Originally posted by exa:
<STRONG>I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet... but last I checked... Apple moved from DVI to ADC because ADC is a better implementation. Their previous monitors using DVI were having power issues and resulted in dead monitors. THATS why Apple moved to ADC, it is superior and does not kill the monitor.

I really don't like it how so many people fail to see the truths and backgrounds behind Apple's 'innovations', they all have a purpose... not necessairly for lining Apple's pockets.

Then again, I may be wrong...</STRONG>

ADC = (DVI (Pin for pin) + USB + power)

How tell me how would combining all 3 technologies into 1 plug have any effect on either/or?

I don't care about pocket lining or anything else. What I do care about is quality. That's the only reason I buy Apple. If someone made a better piece of hardware and software then I would be the first one knocking. I like Apple's displays better than anyone elses. I am an IT Professional. Apple has shut it's doors on me as it pertains to me using their superior product. I mean all they need to do is include an adaptor or something in the box like they did with their Apple VGA connectors that were pin-for-pin to a PeeCee 15pin D sub connector. And last time I checked, Apple went to *standard* 15 pin VGA out's instead of the ones on the older Apple monitors.

Get it?

Back in the day I paid $1000 for an Apple 17" trinitron to use on my PC (even though Sony's were cheaper). If it didn't come with the adaptor (or no reasonable 3rd party solutions existed) then I wouldn't/couldn't have.

Bottom line. I have $$. I like Apple quality and am readily willing to pay for it, even if it means regularly paying a premium for it. Apple should sell myself and others like me their LCD's.

Think about this. Apple is forcing you to buy video cards from them since ADC is not a standard... You can't go to your local CompUSA and buy the latest NVIDIA GForceMillion with VGA + DVI because your monitor uses ADC. Well, unless you plan on paying $150-300 for a non-apple adaptor to let you use your $500 monitor on. I bet no one has thought of that.

Originally posted by &lt;severed_hand_of_raman&gt;:
<STRONG>Think about this. Apple is forcing you to buy video cards from them since ADC is not a standard... You can't go to your local CompUSA and buy the latest NVIDIA GForceMillion with VGA + DVI because your monitor uses ADC. Well, unless you plan on paying $150-300 for a non-apple adaptor to let you use your $500 monitor on. I bet no one has thought of that.</STRONG>

Or you could just not get Apple's monitors.

-Whisper

[el matteo]

Creating the ADC wasn't just to reduce cable clutter or to show off. There was a legitimate technical problem with DVI. Namely, DVI is really ornery when it comes to power. If you don't plug in a DVI display before you hook it to the computer, you run a good chance of frying your display.

See http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n58547 for more information.

And I'm sure the reason Apple chose to use VGA on its portables and the iMac, is because every projector on the market uses VGA, and projectors are really the primary reason they have external video connectors. There had to be a tradeoff somewhere, I doubt there was room to have both in those machines, and for that matter, I doubt a portable could power an ADC display anyway.

[exa]

Thanks for proving my point, el matteo...

And raman, you have a laptop, Apple never designed a laptop to be a workstation for which the cinema displays are meant for... It has the analog connector for reasons stated by el matteo... and you don't like ADC? Well, you like DVI don't you? Do you want your monitor to blow up... does Apple want to take the pains to replace it? Well, your choice. Seriously though, quit complaining. Use the third party solution already (so what if it doesn't have the Apple logo on it, their MONITORS ARE SAMSUNGS!). Such third party solutions were designed for your purpose, for making a workstation out of laptops.

Sacrifieces must be made for innovation... you are still begging for Apple to implement older/less reliable technology (namely DVI on the latter reason).

[Sven G]

DISCUSSION


The Apple Studio Display DVI and Cinema Display can be damaged by electro-static discharge (ESD), particularly when the data cable is connected to the computer. To prevent possible damage, the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) must be plugged into a grounded power outlet before connecting the Studio or Cinema Display.

Once the computer is plugged into the power outlet, you may connect the display to the computer.

And that should be the reason behind switching to ADC...?!?

Noooo... Personally, I don't think so! (Otherwise, PC users would be "frying" their LCD displays quite often - which, probably, doesn't happen!)

The reason behind ADC is mainly to give novice users less trouble connecting the display (which, anyway, could be quite straightforward also with DVI + power and USB cables: no problems, if the instructions are clear and well-written...), to reduce cable clutter (good, but, anyway, a rather secondary thing, as there is probably already quite a clutter due to other cables!)- *and*, sadly, to "kindly" force people to buy new Macs... even if your Power Mac G4 AGP is certainly not an outdated computer!!!

Apple has to learn this, I think: yes to innovation, but also more respect for their customers - which means, talking about ADC, to provide the conversion device *themselves* (even if made by Dr. Bott or Gefen), bundled with their new displays.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Sven G ]

I'm sorry, but I love my ADC connector on my Apple 15 lcd display.
It's simple, and eliminates a lot of clutter. I think it's great!

[GuruMeditation]

Patience Grasshoppers, ADC adapters will be available cheaply soon enough, along with all that other fancy junk like DVD-R's & such.

There's a demand. There'll be suppliers.

GuruMed