[komi]

hi.
i wonder if i am allowed to post this?

MAC FAN NET - this is the insides of the iPod!

it is a link to a japanese website that shows you the insides of the iPod. they open up about any new thing they can get their hands on. check it out.

for those who do not read japanese.... here is the gist:

to start off, we took a look at the iPod specs through apple profiller. it lists the iPod as being apple hardware? does this mean the hard drive inside is an apple brand? no.

next, we looked at the info displayed on the iPod screen. after the apple logo is displayed, a music note comes up which is the logo for PortalPlayer and Pixo(both american companies). according to a source, the OS used for the iPod was developed by Pixo. interesting to see where PortalPlayer fits into all this?

lets take this thing apart. you dont need any special tools to open the iPod, you need no tools at all. the stainless steel back cover is held in place with 12 plastic claws. once you get the hang of it, twisting off the cover is not so hard. first you see the battery. placing the display on the bottom, the order of the layers are: board, HD, battery. you can see a rubber peice glued between the board and HD, and the HD and the battery to absorb any force applied. suprisingly, the battery and HD are just sandwitched by the board and outcasing and are not physucally attached to any support.

the battery is made by sony-fukushima, and only is 3mm thick. voltage is 4.15V.

you get to see the HD when you take the battery out. on the bottom side the HD is connected to a film cable and on the top side you can see a metalec support peice, but the HD is simply pushed against the support with a spring. you can see the label on the HD once you take it off the rubber peices and slide it out of the metalic support. the label read, toshiba, MK5002MAL. it also states that it was made in the phillipines. this seems to be the same hard drive that is used by toshiba for its pcimcia card HDs. it might be possible to upgrade of the HD alone were to appear on the market.

the board shows itself after removing the HD. the two big chips stand out. one of the chips is for portable music devices. this acts as the brain of the iPod. the chip number is PP5002B. the music note is also seen when the PortalPlayer logo is seen in the iPod. the iPod is play only but this chip has the ability to encode mp3 files, looking at the chip alone, it is possible to add a recording feature.

the other big chip is aTSB43AA82 from Texus Instruments. this is the FW controller.

putting the iPod back together is just doing the taking apart process backwards. but you have to watch out for the long rubber peice attached to the HD. you have to place it where the HD casing is lower that the other parts or the peice will add extra height and pressure to the HD and make it not function properly. i (they guy who took it apart) mistakenly it the wronge way first and paniced, but it was all good because i got to see a cute little sad iPod mark.

as mentioned, taking apart the iPod was easy, but you have to be careful because the HD is weak against pressure and uneven force. also, if you were to open you your iPod, it voids the warrenty, so dont try this is at home. try only at your own risk.

... hew, that is about it. crude 10 min translation, but you get the idea.

k

[AKcrab]

The battery is obviously replaceable. That will be good news on this board! Good find!

[guerro]

What I really want to know is if the iPod is running some type of system software and if so what is it ? Is it an OSX variation ? That would be cool

[zekemon6]

Battery is REPLACEABLE!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!

[nana2]

Originally posted by zekemon6:
<STRONG>Battery is REPLACEABLE!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!</STRONG>

Good thing the warranty is only 90 days then, you can open it up without worries LOL.

this chip has the ability to encode mp3 files

freakin cool

[nana2]

All it needs now is a line input

[craigh]

they took it apart on the ScreenSavers (TechTV) on the first day is was available - right on camera. Of course the info wasn't this complete. It's great to know that the hard drive may some day be upgradeable, of course, it might be easier/cheaper to just buy another iPod. I'm guessing retail on the HD is about $400 - it is exactly $400 with the PC card interface. The new/bigger one will probably retail in the same area.

[nana2]

The hard drive should slide straight into a PCMCIA slot.

[Lunatic E'sex]

Originally posted by guerro:
<STRONG>What I really want to know is if the iPod is running some type of system software and if so what is it ? Is it an OSX variation ? That would be cool</STRONG>

Read the translation again:

"according to a source, the OS used for the iPod was developed by Pixo"

Then go to www.pixo.com. You'll see that the OS Apple licenced is designed for small embedded applications, like cell phones.

The iPod has 32 MB of RAM. The majority of that is intended for use as the MP3 playback buffer, giving it the 20 minute skip protection. OS X alone takes much more than 32 MB, and even if Apple was able to strip it down to the minimum of a kernal, HD and FireWire drivers, and MP3 player it still might be too big (and don't forget the Breakout game Easter egg . And if it did fit, it would kill not only the 20 minute skip protection but the 10 hour battery life as well, since it gets that by only spinning up the HD every 20 minutes.

What I wonder is, how did Apple choose Pixo? What were their other alternatives? Palm and Symbian/EPOC probably would have been too resource (RAM/CPU) hungry. Obviously writing their own OS would have taken more than the eight month development time they had. Although, since iPod runs on a chip with a StrongARM-based core, they may have considered adapting the Newton OS. At the very least, they probably chose to go with the StrongARM chip due to the fact that they had some prior experience with it, and it's simply a really good chip. Plus Apple still has investments in ARM, so they're just helping themselves in the end by helping ARM. (:

-= Lunatic

[Eugene]

There is a PCMCIA variant of the Toshiba drive, but the one Apple uses is the one with a native ATA interface, so it doesn't have to arbitrate via a PCI controller.

Saying the battery is replaceable may be a bit of false advertising. Sure, it has a connector, but how many people are going to be brave enough to open an iPod, and it's not like you can buy these batteries at Radio Shack.

Originally posted by Lunatic E'sex:
<STRONG>

Read the translation again:

"according to a source, the OS used for the iPod was developed by Pixo"

Then go to www.pixo.com. You'll see that the OS Apple licenced is designed for small embedded applications, like cell phones.</STRONG>

on the pixo site:

Pixo OS Platform and Telephony Applications

This powerful feature set provides manufacturers with flexibility to design products to meet target market segments from teenagers to power business users. From robust applications to highly integrated telephony, the feature set covers all your wireless phone needs.

Pixo provides a range of valuable data applications including: [LIST][*]Address book [*]Calendar [*]To do list [*]Memo Maker [*]PC synchronization [*]Email [*]Graphical world clock [*]Calculator

Hmm... now can I install a couple of these onto the HD? I'm sure a bit of modification will be needed to work well with the scrollpad input - I'm guessing these will be released as bonus features that will sync in with other OS X apps... ie. write your shopping list at home and then take it with you...

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by &lt;Jotham&gt;:
<STRONG>
[*]Address book [*]Calendar [*]To do list [*]Memo Maker [*]PC synchronization [*]Email [*]Graphical world clock [*]Calculator

Hmm... now can I install a couple of these onto the HD? I'm sure a bit of modification will be needed to work well with the scrollpad input - I'm guessing these will be released as bonus features that will sync in with other OS X apps... ie. write your shopping list at home and then take it with you...</STRONG>

Hmmm... probably wishful thinking, but wouldn't it be great if this is the reason we haven't yet seen Palm Desktop for X?

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Eugene:
Saying the battery is replaceable may be a bit of false advertising. Sure, it has a connector, but how many people are going to be brave enough to open an iPod, and it's not like you can buy these batteries at Radio Shack.[/QB]

You're right Eugene, but folks have been saying all kinds of crazy stuff about the battery; like the battery is the outer shell and such. It's a regular battery, with a regular connector, so it can be replaced, even if it takes a "professional".

Hmm... now can I install a couple of these onto the HD? I'm sure a bit of modification will be needed to work well with the scrollpad input - I'm guessing these will be released as bonus features that will sync in with other OS X apps... ie. write your shopping list at home and then take it with you...

It's possible that a firewire keyboard could be adapted to accept input for such applications. Providing that firewire hub technology is implemented within the software for the firewire controller.

As for getting a bigger HD, there's at least one method I can think of.. if the OS isn't scattered too far about the HD, it's not hard to simply copy the desired sectors using DD under *nix. Providing that the partitioning information doesn't get overwritten on your new drive, of course. That, and you'd have to deal with a larger HD, but supposedly the drive has a direct ATA connector, so upgrading should be a straigh swap. (hardware wise)

Originally posted by &lt;Jotham&gt;:
<STRONG>
on the pixo site:

Pixo OS Platform and Telephony Applications

This powerful feature set provides manufacturers with flexibility to design products to meet target market segments from teenagers to power business users. From robust applications to highly integrated telephony, the feature set covers all your wireless phone needs.
&lt;snip&gt;
</STRONG>

Not too surprising they're using the Pixo OS... the CEO of the company is a former Apple PowerBook product manager. Also, two of the board advisors are Apple Alumni... not the least of which is Paul Mercer whose name appears prominently in the "About the Finder" credits in Classic Mac OS versions (&lt;=9) among other places.

Originally posted by Lunatic E'sex:
<STRONG>

Although, since iPod runs on a chip with a StrongARM-based core, they may have considered adapting the Newton OS. At the very least, they probably chose to go with the StrongARM chip due to the fact that they had some prior experience with it, and it's simply a really good chip. Plus Apple still has investments in ARM, so they're just helping themselves in the end by helping ARM. (:

-= Lunatic</STRONG>

The PortalPlayer device, as given on the www.portalplayer.com website, uses an ARM7TDMI which is not a StrongARM-based core - the ARM7 is a much earlier core than the StrongARM and is still ARM's biggest seller. It was designed by ARM whereas the StrongARM was designed by Digital, back when Digital existed, and is now owned by Intel. Neither does Apple still have any "significant" investment in ARM. And both of these I know because I have been working for ARM for nearly the last four years!

[ewiser]

The easy way to translate this site is using Bable fish at Alta Visa. It worked like a charm.

Originally posted by &lt;Vector&gt;:
<STRONG>

As for getting a bigger HD, there's at least one method I can think of.. if the OS isn't scattered too far about the HD, it's not hard to simply copy the desired sectors using DD under *nix. Providing that the partitioning information doesn't get overwritten on your new drive, of course. That, and you'd have to deal with a larger HD, but supposedly the drive has a direct ATA connector, so upgrading should be a straigh swap. (hardware wise)</STRONG>

No need for all that. iTunes 2 will automatically reload all the iPods Software. New drive&gt;connect to Mac&gt;Launch iTunes&gt;Select "Update iPod" from File menu.

Originally posted by Lunatic E'sex:
<STRONG>
"according to a source, the OS used for the iPod was developed by Pixo"

Although, since iPod runs on a chip with a StrongARM-based core, they may have considered adapting the Newton OS.
-= Lunatic</STRONG>

i heard (don't know how true it is, haven't had time to check the pixo site) that pixo was started by a bunch of former apple NewtonOS hackers...

Originally posted by &lt;dickey&gt;:
<STRONG>

i heard (don't know how true it is, haven't had time to check the pixo site) that pixo was started by a bunch of former apple NewtonOS hackers...</STRONG>

The founder of pixo was on the newton team. According to the bio on pixo's web site he also worked on MacOS based pen and handheld computers..... boy would I like to get a look at some of those babies!

[SunSeeker]

Anyone know if the ipod could be made to run small apps that would allow it to control a digital camera.

There are a heap of NikonD1X users around the world already gagging for an ipod with this feature.

Know where I might get some more info???

Originally posted by &lt;Shane Anderson&gt;:
<STRONG>

No need for all that. iTunes 2 will automatically reload all the iPods Software. New drive&gt;connect to Mac&gt;Launch iTunes&gt;Select "Update iPod" from File menu. </STRONG>

even if you can upload the software, that's no guarantee that the partition table and other necesary things will get updated.

Originally posted by &lt;Vector&gt;:
As for getting a bigger HD, you'd have to deal with a larger HD, but supposedly the drive has a direct ATA connector, so upgrading should be a straigh swap. (hardware wise)[/QB]

This was my first question when i heard about the iPod. How can I change out the HDD to one that's big enough to actually use. I have a 12GB laptop drive sitting around and I was thinking about buying one only if I could put it in there.

Well, we can't. Using the data from the Japanese hacker's commentary, I went to Toshiba's website and looked up the 5GB drive that's in there. I is *not* a standard 9.5MM HDD. It is a new type of drive that apparently only Toshiba is making, as Google couldn't find any other reference to a 5MM (5 x 54 x 78.5MM) drive. A 9.5MM (9.5 x 69.85 x 100MM) HDD just will not fit into the iPod shell!

The drive itself is $400. Apple can only sell the iPod for $400 because they get a break on buying those things in bulk. Toss in the cost of production and the fees they pay to Pixo and you can bet that Apple is only making $50 to $100 bucks each on those things. And the cost of an iPod won't come down any time soon...

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by &lt;Mac Lover&gt;:
<STRONG>

This was my first question when i heard about the iPod. How can I change out the HDD to one that's big enough to actually use. I have a 12GB laptop drive sitting around and I was thinking about buying one only if I could put it in there.

Well, we can't. Using the data from the Japanese hacker's commentary, I went to Toshiba's website and looked up the 5GB drive that's in there. I is *not* a standard 9.5MM HDD. It is a new type of drive that apparently only Toshiba is making, as Google couldn't find any other reference to a 5MM (5 x 54 x 78.5MM) drive. A 9.5MM (9.5 x 69.85 x 100MM) HDD just will not fit into the iPod shell!

The drive itself is $400. Apple can only sell the iPod for $400 because they get a break on buying those things in bulk. Toss in the cost of production and the fees they pay to Pixo and you can bet that Apple is only making $50 to $100 bucks each on those things. And the cost of an iPod won't come down any time soon...</STRONG>

I doubt they're making that much on them, there's the lcd, the battery, the earphones, ac adapter, firewire cable, the circuit board, the R&D, the ad campaign as well.

[seanyepez]

They might even be losing a tiny bit of money like Microsoft (or for that matter, any console manufacturer) on each unit for now. Microsoft sells the Xbox at a loss only to recover the money lost on the consoles in game sales. In this case, Apple's aim in making the iPod is to incite the average PC-using consumer to buy Mac next time.

Originally posted by komi:
<STRONG>you can see the label on the HD once you take it off the rubber peices and slide it out of the metalic support. the label read, toshiba, MK5002MAL. it also states that it was made in the phillipines. this seems to be the same hard drive that is used by toshiba for its pcimcia card HDs. it might be possible to upgrade of the HD alone were to appear on the market.
</STRONG>

I went to Comdex in Vegas last week see some cool products. Toshiba was there, and the rep said that a 10GB drive is on the works for release at the beginning of 2002, and a 20GB drive is on the works for release in mid- to late-2002. Isn't that exciting to hear?

I hope this helps.

--MikroData

[TheGreatButcher]

You people are nuts - talking about putting OS X and running your digital cameras via an iPod. It was designed for one purpose - to play MP3s. If Apple had tried it as anything else it would have risked being Newton part II

[schalliol]

Keep in mind that this product was introduced with the point of making your Mac a Digital Hub. I don't see (even if possible) MP3 encoding for that reason, not to mention that you'd have to type everything in (Steve doesn't want you to have a big keyboard on the little thing). If a remote can be added, that makes sense however. Keep in mind that the iPod needs to be able to handle the memory requirements that a larger hard drive would need as far as expansion of the drive in the unit.

Does anybody know if the ipod's hard disk connection is an IDE one in case it could be possible to upgrade the hard disk with a default 3.5" one...i know the original is only 5mm but i want to know if it's even possible?Thanks,

Lars.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by &lt;Lars&gt;:
<STRONG>Does anybody know if the ipod's hard disk connection is an IDE one in case it could be possible to upgrade the hard disk with a default 3.5" one...i know the original is only 5mm but i want to know if it's even possible?Thanks,

Lars.</STRONG>

no. a 3.5" is as big as the entire ipod.

Originally posted by Nebrie:
<STRONG>

no. a 3.5" is as big as the entire ipod.</STRONG>

...sorry but my question wasn't about the size of an 3.5" disk but if the connections fits!...ATA IDE???

Lars

Originally posted by &lt;Lars&gt;:
<STRONG>

...sorry but my question wasn't about the size of an 3.5" disk but if the connections fits!...ATA IDE???

Lars</STRONG>

yes you can. it's ATA (1-5) with a 44-pin connector (MCD-D50 Series by DDK Connectors), you'd need to make a custom ribbon.
the full specs: Here

iPoding

[israces]

All this talk of hacking the iPod into making the Newton II seems to show some pretty good demand for an Apple handheld. Do you guys think the iPod is a way of Apple testing the water for additional non-mac devices ?

Considering the name is iPOD wouldn't you think that its only purpose isnt only music. Its like the "Digital Wallet". I sounds like Apple may add updates to make it a pod to hold your digital media while you're away from your PC... ie, PDA, Pictures (interfaced directly to the iPOD)... While $400 is to much for a 5GB MP3 Player. I know it is small and all, but I just bought a 6gig nomad jukebox for $200 I am willing to give up the size and firewire for $200 bucks...

-Jamie