Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

roxnadz · Jan 7, 2002, 04:22 AM

I'm coming to the realization that if you have songs that are bigger than what your iPod's memory buffer can hold, you will be lucky to get 1/8 to 1/4 of the advertised battery life.

I bought an iPod because I thought I had finally found an mp3 player that could handle a number of large mp3 files (I'm a DJ, so I have lots and lots of mixes that are more than 60 minutes long.), but it appears that if the iPod can't buffer the entire mp3 into its memory, it continues to spin the hard disk and that destroys battery life.

I ran a test and at the most get about 2 hours before I get the "low battery" icon. I first thought that my iPod was defective, so I sent it in and Apple sent me a new one. This one exhibits the same problem, so I'm guessing this is just that the iPod was not programmed to deal with large mp3 files. Isn't there an algorithm that can handle large mp3s in small spaces? Like, for example, reading in as much into the buffer as you can and as you approach the end of the buffer, destroying the front end of the stream and reading in more as it goes? Hell, if you can do that so much as to spin the drive down for a minute or two, versus having it run *all the time* like it does with a large mp3.

I dunno, this is all speculation on my part, but the bottom line is...anybody want my iPod?

If not, it's going on ebay...

-Malcolm aka r0xNadZ

SirCastor · Jan 7, 2002, 02:32 PM

This isn't so much a solution as it is a patch up, but if you're a DJ, you're going to have a number of electronics plugged in already, why not just plug in your iPod?

furtheraway · Jan 8, 2002, 04:37 AM

i think he means he's playing the 60+ minute mixes for listening pleasure, not during a performance.. so portability would be an issue.. if that's the case.

so does anyone know how large that buffer space is? i hadn't thought about this issue until i saw this thread and now i'm rethinking an ipod purchase. i encode my stuff (raw noise collage fun) at 320 (yeah, i'm a jerk like that) and as a result, i have some rather large files.

roxnadz · Jan 8, 2002, 04:44 AM

furtheraway: exactly.

I think the iPod's memory buffer is 32MB. So, theoretically, if you're encoding stuff at 320Kbps, your songs can be no larger than 13 1/2 minutes or it will spin the hard disk through the entire song.

Jan 8, 2002, 06:38 PM

I know it's a pain but... find out or figure out what the time limit is before it starts going all drive, and break up the mix in segments that size. I know it will break the flow (i don't really know how long the lag time is between tracks) but a quick pause every ten minutes or so is not that bad. As long as you hear your mixes smoothly it should serve its purpose.

I would also ask/tell apple.

PS if you find out a good time segment please post here. I'm currently waiting for a larger drive on them and hope when I get one I won't have the same prob.

Max8319 · Jan 8, 2002, 08:51 PM

i got most of my music encoded at 320 and it works flawlessly with my ipod....pay attention to how big your files are. if their 8-10 mb, then you can load like 3 songs into memory.

battery time hasn't suffered at all for me. i'm sure i could get between 6-10 hours outta it without recharging. anyways, unless your driving for 8 hours trips, then you can just plug in your ipod into your computer when you get back and have no problems.

roxnadz · Jan 9, 2002, 01:15 AM

i got most of my music encoded at 320 and it works flawlessly with my ipod....pay attention to how big your files are. if their 8-10 mb, then you can load like 3 songs into memory.
battery time hasn't suffered at all for me. i'm sure i could get between 6-10 hours outta it without recharging. anyways, unless your driving for 8 hours trips, then you can just plug in your ipod into your computer when you get back and have no problems.

Again, you have small songs, so it doesn't really matter how high your bitrate is. The iPod's memory buffer is 32MB, so of course it's going to be able to bank 2-3 small songs to memory.

I'm not talking about file size, I'm talking about song length. If your mp3s are very long (say, more than 30 minutes), you will run into problems with battery life because Apple did not implement partial caching. The iPod punts and simply reads off the disk if the song is too long to fit into its cache. And, judging by the responses I've seen so far, there's hardly a chance in hell Apple will fix this.

mrchin · Jan 9, 2002, 10:43 AM

For now, just split up the song into segments. I've got an Eddie Izzard comedy performance in 8 pieces and it's flawless with no skip between songs.

As for later, I don't see why Apple wouldn't fix this. Firmware update can have you load as much as possible into memory like the first 32 megs of the song. Then once it has only about 4 megs of remaining buffer, it can load the next 32 megs if needed. I don't know, I'm not an engineer.

Paco500 · Jan 9, 2002, 03:22 PM

If you're not happy- sell it.

I love my iPod, but if it didn't work the way I wanted it to, there is no way I'd hold on to something that expensive.

Sell it quick berfore the next rev comes out. You probably wouln't lose that much money on it.

Paco

babymac · Jan 9, 2002, 04:15 PM

Wow,

I can't believe nobody pointed this out already. This issue is a known bug! Any files (regardless of format or length) over 22 MB in size will trigger this problem. Apple does know about the issue and hopefully will be fixing it soon. In the meantime you have two options:

1. Break your songs into pieces under 22 MB.
2. Don't use long songs.

Just keep watching the Apple web site for updates. Good luck.

roxnadz · Jan 10, 2002, 03:58 AM

I could find any mention fo that problem in Apple's knowledge base. But, speaking of splitting MP3s, is there any software out there that will do that cleanly? I don't see me breaking my WAV files up just for the ipod - this is enough of a joke already as it is.

Thanks for any and all help.

Jefe · Jan 11, 2002, 09:31 AM

wait, so you're playing hour-long WAV files? no wonder you're getting less-than-advertised battery life. The iPod really wasn't designed for that. Sure it can do it, but you can't expect it to be great at it.

Max8319 · Jan 11, 2002, 08:25 PM

here's what you're looking for! (i think)
http://www.sonicblue.com/audio/rio/rio_riot.asp

sell your ipod and get one of these things. costs the same. techtv mentioned it had firewire and USB, but youc an't confirm it anywhere else. it's also a freikn' monstor, but it could be what you're looking for. and it costs the same

EDIT: after reading your original post again, this might not be what you're looking for, but you might as well look into it

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Max8319 ]

kidtexas · Jan 11, 2002, 08:37 PM

Post this as a bug to Apple. As everyone else has stated, there is nothing preventing the next iPod updater from fixing this problem.

If you want to get rid of it, I'll take it for $200

roxnadz · Jan 12, 2002, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Jefe:
<STRONG>wait, so you're playing hour-long WAV files? no wonder you're getting less-than-advertised battery life. The iPod really wasn't designed for that. Sure it can do it, but you can't expect it to be great at it.</STRONG>

No, I'm not playing hourlong WAV files. I'm playing hourlong MP3 files. I like how things get distorted.

I don't wanna sell the ipod, if it had partial caching we wouldn't be having this discussion. I will submit this as an issue to Apple, but again, I have no confidence it will be updated.

-Malcolm
r0xNadZmy00zik http://www.roxnadz.com

Jan 12, 2002, 03:22 AM

This program will let you edit mp3s directly.

So you can split them up without converting them to wav or aiff files first.

Peace

BobVB · Jan 12, 2002, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>Post this as a bug to Apple. As everyone else has stated, there is nothing preventing the next iPod updater from fixing this problem.</STRONG>

Well, other than this problem has been known to Apple for over two months and they haven't fixed it yet. (And this is just one of a number of very annoying problems that have been known for over 2 months without a fix).

Either the iPod is very difficult to program for or Apple's programming team is incompetent. Either way hope of a fix grows slimmer.

roxnadz · Jan 15, 2002, 01:31 PM

So, despite the fact that this is already a known problem, I sent in word of this to Apple.

We'll see what they do about it. My guess is, it's just one of those things that gets overlooked, because no one else is really complaining about it enough.