[Centris650]

I currently own a miniDV that is about 4-5 years old and has seen better days. I'm now looking at buying a hard drive video camera. What appeals to me is the hard drive capacity (20gig records about 4 hours I believe. Much better than the 1 hour I can squeek out of a tape.) It will also force me to down load my videos more frequently than I do now.

What I would like to know is....

1. Am I going to have any mac compatability problems?
2. Any suggestions on a particular camera or brand?


Thanks in advance!

Centris650

[SciFrog]

New camcorder? You should consider an HD one maybe...

[k_munic]

harddrive corders are not supported by the iLife apps...
and: they compress video much more then miniDV based cameras..
and: they use for compression a delivery-codec, mp2, which needs a lot of computation to handle editing..

.. no use of such devices.. :-/

actually, I would buy one of these 3ccd beast from Panasonic, which offer a superb pic quality. HD needs REALLY powerful Macs/harddrives/a HD TV .. and there's actual no disk-delivery format, you get a few HDburners, including a special edition of Toast, but BluRay-r media...??

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by k_munic 

harddrive corders are not supported by the iLife apps...
and: they compress video much more then miniDV based cameras..
and: they use for compression a delivery-codec, mp2, which needs a lot of computation to handle editing..

.. no use of such devices.. :-/

actually, I would buy one of these 3ccd beast from Panasonic, which offer a superb pic quality. HD needs REALLY powerful Macs/harddrives/a HD TV .. and there's actual no disk-delivery format, you get a few HDburners, including a special edition of Toast, but BluRay-r media...??

Some HD camcorders will compress more than DV cams but they have to based on user settings. If its going to record in 720p or above it needs to be less compressed or not at all giving only 10-15 min of recoring time. , also I can edit HD on my iMac intel 2Ghz...which will be fine and I can view on an HD LCD TV. Also there is plenty of blank HD and HD-DVD available here in the US.

[Centris650]

Well, which cameras would you suggest? I'm currently looking a what k_munic suggested. Any other suggestions and why?

[k_munic]

Originally Posted by stevesnj 

... there is plenty of blank HD and HD-DVD available here in the US.

here, in the Badlands, the Outer Rim, in ol' Europe ... at eBay.de I find exactly TWO sellers, offering Fuji & Phillips, 20€ (!) per disk...

... here, BluRay is REALLY for the "early adopters" ...

... and the market for HD-Television is just starting here, very few TVstations broadcast very few HiDef content (Europe needed a long time to define standards.. a little more complicated here.. ). so, it is not only the burner, you need the playback-device AND for sure some nice 60" TFT... or, a HiDef beamer and a 3yards silver screen ... and Dolby surround.. and THX ... and ... money

[stevesnj]

I dont know who else offers HD camcorders under 2k, but I would go with Sony over JVC but I thought I remember someone mentioning Sony HD camcorders are not recognized by Mac OS X

JVC JVC Everio Series Digital Hard Drive Camcorder Overview - Information

Sony SonyStyle.com | High Definition Video

[SciFrog]

Canon HV10, under $1k at Amazon...

[TotalForge]

My view of hidef, hard disk cameras is that thet're neat, but I don't have any hard drives I was using five years ago. They tend to die, taking all their files with them, and those were sitting at home, not bouncing around in a camera.

All the video tapes I shot a long time ago are still with me and ready to be played. Properly stored high-grade tape lasts decades.

This makes my pick for an HD camera the Sony HDR HC1, now discontinued, but available for about $800 on eBay.

[Veltliner]

I would not recommend HDD camcorders in standard definition.

They are highly compressed, and tough to edit. iMovie doesn't support them, I think.

Decide, if you want to go HD or not.

For HD you need a faster computer, and HDV is also harder to edit than standard definition.

If you want a good camcorder, which offers good automatic, but also all the manual options for advanced shooting, I recommend the Panasonic gs-500. The price for this camcorder rose recently by 20% - possibly the supplies are low.

In January Panasonic will announce the next generation of models, but I do not think there will be much new stuff.

The gs-500 has 3CCD, which give superb colors (resolution is not everything). It is a matured technology, and a lot of fun to use. The download of the clips to a Mac is uncomplicated (just don't forget to use the PLAYBACK option, not the download option, which is for PCs).

Standard definition video is intra fram compressed, which makes it easy to edit. Any computer will have no problems editing it. iMovie - don't underestimate it because it is free - is a great application, easy to use, and the output is close to professional quality. Sure, you have not much picture adjustment, just basic editing.

The gs-500 is also good in low light, when shooting indoors.

It has manual options for iris, exposure time, gain, white balance. You can switch that nerdy digital zoom off. Manual microphone adjustments. You have an IN for an external microphone.

I love this camera.

[Headshot]

"Editing (1.0)
Working with AVCHD footage is the area we encountered our one big difficulty with this otherwise excellent camcorder. As of the time of writing, late October 2006, there is only one way to view and edit AVCHD footage on a PC: Sony’s provided editing software. As you are probably aware, bundled software is usually rudimentary at best, falling far short of NLE (non-linear editing) solutions like Adobe’s Premiere and Apple’s iMovie that can be purchased cheaply from third party software manufacturers. Included with the Sony HDR-SR1 is an ACVHD player, an import program, and the latest version of Picture Motion Browser.

We found the process of working with AVCHD footage to be extremely frustrating. Macs are simply incompatible with AVCHD, as Sony only provides Windows software. While we were able to import SR1 footage using our office PCs, the bundled software just doesn’t provide anything like the functionality of more robust editing programs.

We hope this problem will be addressed soon because, although many software manufacturers have pledged support for AVCHD, including Adobe, Avid, InterVideo, Nero, and Ulead, none have yet updated their products for AVCHD compatibility. They have also not yet provided a timeline for when that software will be released. Even Sony’s professional NLE, Vegas, can’t play AVCHD yet, though Vegas 7, due out soon should address the gap. Without a credible workflow solution in place, your AVCHD footage will be stuck in limbo unless you resort to the SR1’s mediocre bundled software.

We know solutions to this sorry state of affairs are in the works, but unless you’re in a real hurry to jump on board the AVCHD bandwagon, our best advice is wait for someone – anyone – to release a better editing solution."


"Our other concern is editing solutions. Sony jumped the gun on their own inventiveness, releasing the SR1 and UX1 before the world was ready to accept them with workflow solutions. As it stands, the baseline software that comes in the box is the only known way of editing AVCHD video. We know for a fact that solutions are forthcoming, but they’re not here today, and we’ve heard no dates for product releases." ...........

Is what Sony HDR-SR1 Camcorder Review - Sony AVCHD Camcorders - Sony Camcorders - Camcorder Reviews - Consumer Camcorders - Camcorderinfo.com
has to say about the Sony in their review. It also reviews the Canon HV10.

THese are really the 2 best options available. From what I've read, the Canon is really a beautiful picture, probaby better than the Sony slightly, but a really STUPID design in that it has NO Mic jacks. Uh, ok. Nothing??? Nope. The cheapest price I've seen for the SR1 is at a place called
Adorama I use for some of my photo equip. They're big and very reliable.
HDRSR1 Sony HDR-SR1 30 GB Hard Drive High Def. Handycam Camcorder, Still Image Recording, Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 10x Optical / 80 x Digital Zoom Lens, Dolby Digital 5.1ch Audio Recording, 3.5" Wide (16:9) LCD

But the most disturbing thing about the Sony is that the tech is so new I think that there really isn't anything you can do in OSX apps...yet. I would be very surprised if Steve & Co. isn't working on some kind of newer iLife upgrade or code to read and process this new format called "AVCHD".

So I may buy this on the gamble that this can be a new standard for the future and it'l be integrated into the editing workflow of programs like iMovie etc.....

Of course, all I know is what I read here, anyone else know better???

[Veltliner]

The Canon HV-10 not only has no microphone input, its low light performance is by far the worst of all hd camcorders. Once bright light is gone, you can just pack it in.

I think Sony Vegas supports AVCHD, but this is PC.

I would not touch AVCHD before any major Mac software company has a product for it.

I wouldn't even touch it then.

AVCHD has a so-called long-GOP sturture. This means, only 1 in 15 images is fully recorded, 14 more are only recorded in their changes to the first. That means, 14 images are dependent on that key frame. This is just such a mess to edit.

AVCHD has a much better compression technique than the old HDV. In HDV, if you pan, or if you film a subject, that has a lot of change in it (leafs on a tree, windy landscape), it can lead to pixellation, errors in the recorded picture.

HD is still in its infancy. There is no medium to record it on (except if you want to spend 800$ on a burner, and 20$ on a disc).

I would recommend to wait until things get more developed. A good standard DV camcorder has intra-frame compression (every frame compressed by itself), is easy to edit.

There will be an HD intrafram compression. The Panasonic hvx-200 has one, and there will be a another format coming.

AVCHD is momentarily by far not at its best. It can provide up to 24mbS of data, but current camcorders only deliver 15mbs max. This also leads to picture problems, as you can read on camcorderinfo.com

If you must have HD now, I'd recommend the hvx200.

Next best thing is going HDV, even though this format is on its way out due to an outdated compression format. In 5 years, nobody will offer an HDV camcorder any more.

Best products in HDV seem to be The Canon A-1 (stree 3400$) and the Sony 24p model, but it costs as much as the hvx-200.