[livemotion]

"Don’t skip it
With an industry-leading 20 minutes of skip protection, iPod keeps playing without missing a beat. In addition to its 5GB hard drive, iPod has a 32MB memory cache. The cache is made up of solid-state memory, meaning that it has no mechanical or moving parts, so it’s not affected by movement of the device. iPod skip protection works by continually preloading up to 20 minutes of music into the cache."

Here's a quote taken from apple's website. According to them this thing isn't all mechanical inside, only the 32MB cashe is. How is this better the other MP3 Players which are all mechanical? My Nomad II MG has a built-in 64MB module thats all mechanical and will never skip and an additional 128MB card which will never skip as well.

[spaceLenny]

No, the cache isnt mechanical...

What they are saying is that the other players on the market that play from HDD's dont use the cache sa a read-ahead, so the drive is always spinning.

The real benefit of MP3 players is that they have no moving parts, so yes your Nomad will also play 128MB worth of data without any mechanical parts, but the only difference is that the iPod plays 32MB at a time and then uses the HDD to fill the cache again, and then power it down.

Ram isnt mechanical.

Dave

[livemotion]

So if i'm riding my bike with an ipod attached for twenty minutes the thing will skip on me...if i have my nomad II MG it wont?

[JFischel]

No, it won't skip on you...the system continuously reads ahead so it always has 32MB worth of data in memory. It never runs out, at soon as one bit is read out of one side it is refilled with new information on the other...

.jaf.

[livemotion]

then whats the significance of the '32'MB cache...how would it be different then '16mb' cache?

[PookJP]

Livemotion said:

then whats the significance of the '32'MB cache...how would it be different then '16mb' cache?

The difference is clear

32 Megs: 3 +2 = 5
16 Megs: 1 +6 = 7

Get it?

- Pook

[livemotion]

no sh*t...i know that 32mb is more then 16mb

what i don't know is the point of the size of the cache if what spacelenny said previously is true:

"What they are saying is that the other players on the market that play from HDD's dont use the cache sa a read-ahead, so the drive is always spinning."

"my point is if 32mb cahe is going to keep this thing skip free for 20 minutes then if i shake the darn thing while riding a bike for twntnty minutes non stop it will skip evevry twenty minutes...

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by livemotion:
<STRONG>
"my point is if 32mb cahe is going to keep this thing skip free for 20 minutes then if i shake the darn thing while riding a bike for twntnty minutes non stop it will skip evevry twenty minutes...</STRONG>

You aren't to computer literate are you?

[livemotion]

my point is that the 32mb cache is there as a buffer...it does not matter if its 32, 16 or 128mb, it will skip after being shaken for a specific amount of time, where as other MP3 players rely on smartmedia cards that are non movable parts and wont cause the mP3 player to skip. I guess i answered my own question...i'll stick with my nomad..

"You aren't to computer literate are you? "
take a look at my site and pick up a copy of my book due our early next year and perhaps you'll get the answer to your comment.
livemotionstudio.com

[timmerk]

Originally posted by livemotion:
<STRONG>my point is that the 32mb cache is there as a buffer...it does not matter if its 32, 16 or 128mb, it will skip after being shaken for a specific amount of time, where as other MP3 players rely on smartmedia cards that are non movable parts and wont cause the mP3 player to skip. I guess i answered my own question...i'll stick with my nomad..

"You aren't to computer literate are you? "
take a look at my site and pick up a copy of my book due our early next year and perhaps you'll get the answer to your comment.
livemotionstudio.com</STRONG>

Yes - you are right (only this one post though) - if you shake it for 20 MINUTES, then it will skip after that. Who's going to shake it for 20 min, anyhow?

A for the computer literate thing - you may be software literate, but sure as hell not hardware literate.

[lextek]

I have a Nomad II MG, it's great. You can get one for $200 w/ 64mb. That's about a CD's worth of music at 160. I also have a 128mb card ($120). So now for about $320 you can listen to 3 CD's. I hope Fed-Ex shows up today with my iPod. When I bought my Nomad the price was much higher. I will shake my iPod for 20 minutes when I get to see what happens.

Bob

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: lextek ]

[Raman]

If you shake a hard drive, you'd have to shake it pretty hard for it not to be able to read data. I guess if you dropped it 3 feet for 20 minutes it might blink.

If the hard drive gets a second or 2 to preload the next piece of song then you'll have to drop for that much longer.

Now. A typical MP3 song is about 5 megs (44.1, 160k, stereo). That means that it can hold about 6 MP3 songs in it's cache. I seriously doubt that the cache is for uncompressed music. It's more likely for music in MP3 form (compressed) so that means that you'd have to drop your iPod for as long as the songs that are cached memory. If someone is idiotic enough to do that, they deserve the small 90 day warranty.

Also - others are pondering why such a huge cache and have hypothesized that the cache size might be used for things OTHER THAN MUSIC - think QUICKTIME VIDEO - in the future. Ahh it's all clear now..

[scaught]

but you still havent explained how the nomad II MG is better than the ipod. interesting.

[livemotion]

well nomad doesn't need a buffer because it doesn't have an internal spinning hard drive. Therfore I can shake the darn thing all i want and it wont skip. Going back to the iPod, in my previous post i said what if I'm riding my bike over rough terrain and the ipod shakes for more then 20 minutes it will skip...

admin: can you close this thread....its not going anywhere.

MacFixit (I think?) has some comments on that 20 min buffer. Apparently it leads to MP3s longer than 20 min not playing properly.

32MB buffer. As I understand the 32MB buffer, if you have a 4MB song, followed by a 3,3,5,5,4,3MB songs, the iPod won't skip after 20 minutes, becasue when the buffer empties a few of those songs and the hard drive is told to spin again and fill the buffer.

The point of having a 32MB vs. 16MB buffer is not so that more time is available before a potential skip. 32MB is 1.) a selling point 2.) technical need for the hard drive, battery life, spin up/ spin down, equation such that the larger buffer saves battery life because the HD needs to spin for sustained periods less often.

So, iPod is like having a 32MB Nomad IIC with a 5GB card, except the 5GB is a hard drive.

Finally, I'd like to say that iPod would beat a Nomad hands down because 1.) lithium ion battery, rechargeable by Firewire 2.) Firewire tranfer speeds i.e. 5 GB in minutes vs. 5GB in hours with USB and a Nomad IIC and 3.) the iPod has a backlit display for night, with playlists, languages, the thing is about as tech as you can get in today's market.

[lextek]

My arm is getting tired I've been shaking my Nomad Jukebox 20gigger for about 5 minutes. No skip. I don't think skinpping will be an issue with the iPod. Mine is sitting in a container at the Fedex terminal waiting to be delivered on Monday. What a difference a day makes

Bob

[Todd Madson]

Geez. I can't believe some of the messages here.

What it's saying is that, for any given moment, there will always be 20 minutes of tunes in the buffer.
The buffer is continually refreshed so you shouldn't run into skips at all on this device unless you drop
it 40 miles or are riding a jackhammer.

I'm going to try bringing it mountain biking to see how well it works for me.

If you're exposed to that much shock your kidneys will start bleeding long before the iPod skips.

[GK]

Uh,

bigger cache -&gt; less HD activity -&gt; less power consumption -&gt; longer playtime

the nomad isn't better for a few reasons:

The iPod isn't just an mp3 player, you can install an OS on the iPod and boot your Mac from it. You can connect it to a FireWire camera (prob. other devices too) and put pix on it. Let's not forget that compared to the nomad, it can transfer songs so many times faster that it's just funny...

if you're going to sit there and vibrate the nomad and the iPod for 20 minutes then I suggest you get a girlfriend or a t least a hobby

[tobster]

Originally posted by livemotion:
<STRONG>well nomad doesn't need a buffer because it doesn't have an internal spinning hard drive. Therfore I can shake the darn thing all i want and it wont skip. Going back to the iPod, in my previous post i said what if I'm riding my bike over rough terrain and the ipod shakes for more then 20 minutes it will skip...

admin: can you close this thread....its not going anywhere.</STRONG>

How much storage space does the nomad you are referring to offer?

The whole point of the 32 mb buffer in the iPod is so that it will allow for HD storage... instead of the small CF or SM cards out there. I'm not sure I'm right about this but doesn't the iPod have the largest buffer out there of the HD players?

But Livemotion, I honestly don't understand how you can say a player that depends upon a 128 mb card (even if You could fit 2) matches up to a player that holds 5 gigs almost and doesn't skip for 20 mins (which practically = no skipping). I have a MiniDisc which has 10 min skip protection and i have never been able to make it skip, no matter how much I shake it... Thing is, on the iPod, even if you are in an acivity that shakes it that much, the iPod is most likely to get 1 sec stable enough to update the cache...

You'd have to be 'hopping mad' to get it skippin' ... literally!

tobs