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In this other thread I seem to have helped kill or derail I mentioned being very interested in a Canon EOS 40D DSLR. I still think it's a wonderful camera. Unfortunately, my bank account does not completely agree with me on this, because the camera is kind of expensive and doesn't even necessarily come with a lens.

Can anyone help me figure out the pros and cons of the lower end DSLRs, particularly Canons? For example, the soon to be released EOS Digital Rebel XSi is a 12MP camera that comes with a lens, but it's hundreds of dollars less expensive than the EOS 40D. The Digital Rebel XTi is about half the price of the 40D and has the same resolution. What's up with all of this? Can I get one of these less expensive cameras and get fast enough frame rates and response times to take good pictures of kittens or birds in motion? Can I do decent close-up and macro photography with them? What CAN'T I do with them that makes the 40D "all that"?

I usually go here for some info on DSLR's.
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Just to name a few. I was looking at the new rebel but decided not to mess around with changing lenses so bought a canon sx100is. This thing takes awesome pictures, and fits great in my pocket.

Thanks, bearcatrp. I've found something that looks more doable-the Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi. Comfortable price, same effective resolution and lenses as the EOS 40D, a hot shoe (!) and more. I'm still lookin'!

I've not used a Canon DSLR so I don't really have any experience there. I do, however, have a Nikon D40 and I love it. It came with the 18-55 kit lens. I got a 55-200mm VR lens and a spare battery with it, and paid less than $600 for it all through Amazon. This isn't "Less Expensive", it's least expensive. : )

I've had the thing for just a few months, and I already have over 3500 shutter actuations.

I was going to say the same as IceEnclosure. If you're open to the Nikon cameras, the D40 is a great camera for the price. Ken Rockwell reviewed it and raves about it. I've been using a D50 for the past two years and it too is a great camera, which you could find cheap secondhand (if you're open to secondhand cameras).

Cameras like the D40 and the Digital Rebel XTI will be able to do all that you asked but certain photos might work a lot nicer with specific lenses.
Kit lenses that you get (such as the 18-55mm which is common) will be good for day-to-day photos, but won't get you great indoor shots, nor very close up macro photography.

Ice and mdc, thanks for the info. I already expected to need to start collecting lenses, but from what I've read, the 18-55mm lens is pretty much the standard "utility zoom" lens, much as the 30-80mm is the standard lens for a 35mm SLR. I can work with that quite well. Either through dedicated lenses or attachments, you can do anything-if you can swap lenses, and if your lenses are threaded for filters.

I'm leaning more toward the Digital Rebel XTi at the moment; it has a 10MP sensor versus the D40's 8MP, the ISO range is 100-1600 versus the D40's 200-1600, and I like the interface a bit better. Plus I can get it for around $600 with a lens.

This leads me to another question. When buying an entry level DSLR, has anyone found that "entry level" media are a problem? The XTi uses CF cards for storage, so do I need really fast cards or will just "fast" cards be fine? (Yes, I know I said in that other thread that storage interface speed should be in the tech data for the camera, but I just can't find it on Canon's site.)

Youll not go far wrong with a 400D and a canon L series lens!!! :-)

D40's not even 8MP, it's just 6

XTi should work well for you, and like myself, I'll give you about 2 months before you're dying for new glass.
Regarding the CF cards, wouldn't the faster card also be of benefit when transferring to the computer via a card reader? I consider myself very budget-minded, and I don't see any downside to buying a faster card for a few more dollars.

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I love my D40 - it is, as was noted above, the least expensive DSLR, and a great camera. It is only 6mp (the D40x is 8mp, I think), but that's not very important for amateur photographers unless you have a need to print really large. My feeling is that if your budget is constraining, save on the body and spend the money on better lenses. You'll keep them longer than you will keep the body anyway.

If you shoot a sharp image, a D40 print can go to 13x19". I regularly print at 11x14".

The only real problem one faces with a 6MP camera is the reduced ability to crop and still print large.

Megapixels are irrelevant, anything above 6 is fine (i. e. all dslrs sold today). Of couse, some people need more, but for most consumers anything above 6 is fine. ISO100 is also not really important to have as the sensor noise is fairly low in either case. I'd rather recommend that you invest money you might have in lenses. 18-55 kit lenses are not good, this is especially true of Canon's kit lenses. IMO you should do yourself a favor and skip kit lenses in favor of Sigma's or even even Tamron's 2.8/18-50 zooms.

If you prefer Canon's UI, get a Canon (just try all brands in a store). I would give a third option, though (Canon-oriented): how about a 30D? It's an 8 MP camera (no, that's not `bad' ), and very sturdily built.

I prefer the feel and user interface of Nikons. Canon's bottom-of-the-line cameras have always felt cheap (I haven't tried the new 450D, though).

Yep - that is the issue. I'd still rather save the money and get a decent zoom lens. The results will be better than using the extra megapixels as an optical zoom.

True.
Oh, I'm lusting after the Sigma 10-20mm for my D40. Hopefully in the next month or so.

Sigma 10-20 on D40 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Unfortunately, the 30D lists for around twice what the XTi does. I still haven't figured out the different lines, but the "Rebel" lines seem to be far less expensive than the plain EOS lines. And at the moment, it IS about money.

I got to play around with an XTi a bit at Office Depot today, and I do like it. It feels like a real camera-remember, I cut my teeth on a Canon A1 (not the AE1, mind you). I like the interface and the histogram display, but I really like the 9-point autofocus, and it tells you WHERE those 9 points are, so you can move it around. I'll admit that I haven't messed much with Nikons, but I did look at both the D40 and D40x (yes, that's where I got myself confused), but the layout of the controls wasn't where my fingers wanted to go, and at my age it's easier to adapt the camera to the fingers than vice versa.

I'm trying to find out how to price challenge something with one of my online vendors-hopefully I'll be able to get the kit I want for a touch less than $600 rather than about $640.

I really want to make the jump to SLR too. Be sure to let us know what you choose and how you like it, Glenn.

The Rebel series are Canon's consumer models. The EOS 40d and 30d are more prosumer. Image quality wise they are about the same. The 30d and 40d are better built, all metal body and more robust shutter. They also shoot a lot faster and give more control over exposure than the Rebels. I just picked up a Rebel XSI and like it so far.

And according to that classification, what's the prosumer Nikon model?

Nikon's prosumer model starts with the D80. It's a bit hard to tell, because Nikon's product raster has an offset compared to Canon's. D80 < 40D < D300 < 5D

You left out the other major feature of the 30d and 40d: they cost at least twice as much as the EOS Rebel models. Thus my choice for my first DSLR is the XSi... Which is still backordered...

Hmm Really????

In England....

40D (body only) is £530 with the rebate.
450D (body only) is £540.

...id say get the 40D!