Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 01:56 PM

I have a 5-year old DV cam (DAT tape) with USB2 (and sim card). No Firewire on cam.

I've always known that the Mac will only work videos through Firewire, but I'm hoping that there's a (recent) solution out there for me to get that video onto my Hard drive.

I know that most PC have this ability. What's so different on the Mac?

mduell · Sep 7, 2008, 02:09 PM

Before UVC there as no generic/standard format for video over USB, so your camera manufacturer probably created something proprietary. You'd need software from the manufacturer or a third party that licensed their proprietary standard to use the camera on OS X. iMovie doesn't support USB cameras except UVC and as mass storage for newer flash or hard drive based cameras.

Why does your camera have a SIM card?

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 03:30 PM

Camera has sim card for still photos only.

Thanks mduell.

analogika · Sep 7, 2008, 04:28 PM

I thought a sim card was something specific to mobile phone contracts.

Are you talking about a memory card?

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 04:45 PM

You're right analogika. I got confused a little there.

So from what mduell is saying, there's no hope for me to do what it is that I want to, right?

analogika · Sep 7, 2008, 04:46 PM

Very unlikely.

mduell · Sep 7, 2008, 05:31 PM

It's possible that the manufacturer or a third party has written software... but as long as you refuse to tell use the manufacturer/model, we can't help you.

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 05:51 PM

It's a Panasonic Digital Video Camcorder (they call it a Digital Palmcorder and MiniDV)

Model: PV-DV203-K

I haven't found any drivers or workarounds for this yet. I'm still researching... A third party app would be great.

What if I had Windows (VM) on my MacBook. Would I be able to then?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Big Mac · Sep 7, 2008, 06:14 PM

A mini-dv camcorder without Firewire?

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

A mini-dv camcorder without Firewire?

Yep. No Firewire. It's about 5 years old, I believe. Must've cost a fortune then.

Main specs:

- USB device driver for Windows 98 to XP
- MPEG4 Movie Messenger System for Windows (98 to XP)
- And Built-in SD Drive for Macintosh

That's it. I suppose I need to find software that mimics 'MPEG4 Movie Messenger System for Windows'.

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 07:02 PM

I just found This for $89.00 :

http://daystartechnology.com/Apple_M...er_OSX_PS.html

Not sure about the Capture Support though. There's no rca outputs on the cam.

Capture Support:
♦ Video via S-Video or Composite
♦ RCA to USB 2.0.
♦ Audio via RCA stereo to USB 2.0

Big Mac · Sep 7, 2008, 07:44 PM

You can apparently get a minidv cam with firewire for $99:

http://www.topsale-electronics.com/p...roducts_id=111

That's what I would recommend.

ghporter · Sep 7, 2008, 07:59 PM

I have a Sony Mini-DV camera, and it has BOTH Firewire and USB. And they BOTH seem to work fine with my Macs. Have you actually tried it?

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I have a Sony Mini-DV camera, and it has BOTH Firewire and USB. And they BOTH seem to work fine with my Macs. Have you actually tried it?

Yep, several times, several different ways.

iPhoto recognizes the memory card but no apps sees the DV cam DAT tape, nor does the Finder. Someone even said that he 'tricked' iMovie into picking his up. He had IM in the background, play the movie on the camera until the end and voila! Well, that didn't work for me.

mduell · Sep 7, 2008, 09:55 PM

A cheap miniDV camera with Firewire ($100-150) is probably the way to go if you want to keep using your 5 year old camcorder for shooting. Or just buy a new flash-based AVCHD camera for $600.

Originally Posted by ghporter

I have a Sony Mini-DV camera, and it has BOTH Firewire and USB. And they BOTH seem to work fine with my Macs. Have you actually tried it?

That's probably Firewire for video and USB for stills off the SD card; not an uncommon setup on newer miniDV cameras.

dzp111 · Sep 7, 2008, 10:43 PM

It's a little sad that Windows 98 can handle this video/USB2 stuff and we apparently can't -in my opinion.

But I think the jury's out in the fact that the cam itself came with its' own (MS) software. Period. Yes?

Oh well. I'll take the DAT tape and have it transferred to a DVD and take it from there. ($40.00)

Now hoping for a Firewire DVcam for X-mas.

: )

Thanks to all of you.

Daniel

mduell · Sep 8, 2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by dzp111

It's a little sad that Windows 98 can handle this video/USB2 stuff and we apparently can't -in my opinion.

I can invent any number of arbitrary proprietary standards and write software for Windows 3.1 that supports them... it doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by dzp111

But I think the jury's out in the fact that the cam itself came with its' own (MS) software. Period. Yes?

The jury is out on what?

Originally Posted by dzp111

Oh well. I'll take the DAT tape and have it transferred to a DVD and take it from there. ($40.00)

What are you going to use to edit it? iMovie/iDVD don't support importing from DVDs.

Originally Posted by dzp111

Now hoping for a Firewire DVcam for X-mas.

Don't; make the jump to flash and never look back: no more fragile tapes and ridiculous realtime importing.

tooki · Sep 9, 2008, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by dzp111

Oh well. I'll take the DAT tape and have it transferred to a DVD and take it from there. ($40.00)

I assume you mean a MiniDV tape? DAT is Digital Audio Tape, a professional audio tape format.

I can't find a specs page for your camera, but what I assume from what you've posted is that it supports recording DV-format video to MiniDV tape, and MPEG-4 video to SD card. The USB port then functions as an SD card reader. There is no standard for transporting DV video over USB, and I actually doubt the camera can do that on Windows, even.

I agree with your plan to buy some cheap DV camera that has FireWire on it. Maybe look for a used one -- you just need one with a working tape drive and port.

As for the flash memory card or hard disk based cameras: I still advise people to steer clear of those. The AVCHD format they use is not suited for editing and requires extremely time-consuming conversion before you can edit it. I've also seen the conversion fail for no good reason at all, leaving you up crap creek.

Go for a tape camcorder, like MiniDV or HDV for home use, or DVCPro if you are looking for pro gear. (DVCPro HD uses multiple parallel DV codecs, rather than MPEG2, so it's better for editing.)

Big Mac · Sep 9, 2008, 12:40 PM

I agree with steering clear of AVCHD. Have you seen it fail for no good reason on Windows too?

mduell · Sep 9, 2008, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

I can't find a specs page for your camera, but what I assume from what you've posted is that it supports recording DV-format video to MiniDV tape, and MPEG-4 video to SD card. The USB port then functions as an SD card reader. There is no standard for transporting DV video over USB, and I actually doubt the camera can do that on Windows, even.

On a 5 year old camera the SD card is probably for stills, not video.
There are cameras that do DV over USB... it's totally proprietary. You can even do it with disgusting things like this.

Originally Posted by tooki

As for the flash memory card or hard disk based cameras: I still advise people to steer clear of those. The AVCHD format they use is not suited for editing and requires extremely time-consuming conversion before you can edit it. I've also seen the conversion fail for no good reason at all, leaving you up crap creek.

Even on a computer a few years (like my parent's iMac) old it's faster to convert to an intermediate format for editors that can't natively edit AVCHD than it is to import in realtime from DV. If conversion fails (??) you've still got the files on your flash card and you can try again with better software.

dzp111 · Sep 9, 2008, 03:04 PM

Reading from p.64 from the cam's manual (short version)

- By connecting the Palmcorder and PC with USB cable using Photovu/MPG4 Movie Messenger System (software that came with cam), you can transfer Motion images and stills saved on the DV tape directly to your PC.

Note: Detail mode cannot be used with USB. ???

TO CAPTURE MOTION IMAGES (USB):

- Click on 'Movie Capture' (on interface). The DV Tape is rewound. The motion image is then transferred to PC.

- The maximum capture time is appr. 30 seconds. ???

Maybe I'm confusing the term Motion Images with something else?

A couple of pages later, it writes:

- A video clip can be transferred to PC via a DV Interface Cable (i.Link -not supplied), using sofware products from a number of video editing sofware companies.

Note: PC must have iLink port.

Now I see a diagram of cam connected to PC with this iLink cable. On the camera the connector is very similar to USB2 but square.

Pic of cable: http://computers.pricegrabber.com/ca...ters/m/393123/

Thanks again folks, for helping me out. It's appreciated.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2008, 03:18 PM

iLink is FireWire!
You can connect your camera to your Mac when you get a cheap FireWire 4 pin-to-6 pin cable. Your Mac should then recognize your camera just fine.

dzp111 · Sep 9, 2008, 04:06 PM

So all along I had Firewire on the cam but just didn't recognize it.

I'll purchase that wire tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

You guys are awesome!

Thanks.

mduell · Sep 9, 2008, 06:57 PM

Augh... I thought about googling the model number just in case, but I wasn't ready to believe that you didn't know what Firewire looked like.

dzp111 · Sep 9, 2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Augh... I wasn't ready to believe that you didn't know what Firewire looked like.

I know (or thought I knew) what Firewire ports look like, except for that 4-pin part (I do have external HD and have targetted comps via FW). It's a first for me (4-pin) It must've skipped over me.

They stop making those 4-pin ports? Must've, 'cause like I said, it's a first, for me.

Thanks for all your help mduell.

: )

ghporter · Sep 9, 2008, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

That's probably Firewire for video and USB for stills off the SD card; not an uncommon setup on newer miniDV cameras.

I was wrong—I just connected the camera (an older model, the DCR-HC26) through its USB port, and not only does iMovie not recognize it, neither does Image Capture... I did import stuff from it, so I must have used Firewire to do it... Now I need to puzzle out how to get the stills I have on tape/in memory out of the thing, because it certainly doesn't see the thing the way I expected. But then again, Sony never has been exactly Mac friendly.

dzp111 · Sep 10, 2008, 03:31 PM

EUREKA Folks!!

6 to 8-pin FW cable is doing the trick.

I must say that I feel a tad sheepish now knowing that the entire solution was a simple cable.

iMovie imported the wedding. My next task is to share it with iDVD so that I can burn it. But that's another thread. Maybe someone could direct me to threads that would guide me.

Rock & Roll MacNN!!

Daniel

mduell · Sep 11, 2008, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by dzp111

They stop making those 4-pin ports? Must've, 'cause like I said, it's a first, for me.

Nope, in fact they're probably the second most common Firewire port out there; particularly popular with small consumer electronics and non-Apple laptops.

misterdna · 09:26 AM

OMG. I just read this entire thread. Shows the problems with trying to help answer someone's question. If you take someone's question at face value, you might waste a lot of time, and perhaps never get the right answer. But if you question their assumptions in the initial question, you'd likely be insulting most people's intelligence. Tough world. While I'm happy DZP111 learned what the standard firewire port looks like on MiniDV cameras, it sure was the long road to get there.

Funny to reread the initial post and the title of the thread, knowing what the solution was. Actually, that initial post mentions DAT tape, I guess that could have been a tip that DPZ111 really had no clue what he was talking about. That initial post also knocks the Mac as being the problem. Talk about finger pointing!

tooki · Sep 11, 2008, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Even on a computer a few years (like my parent's iMac) old it's faster to convert to an intermediate format for editors that can't natively edit AVCHD than it is to import in realtime from DV. If conversion fails (??) you've still got the files on your flash card and you can try again with better software.

I had a customer whose AVCHD-based hard disk camcorder's data structures had gotten corrupted. The files were fine, but neither iMovie nor Final Cut Express (on multiple demo machines) would recognize it. We weren't able to find a solution.

Big Mac · Sep 11, 2008, 02:37 PM

I knew something was amiss with the claim there was no Firewire on a minidv camcorder. That's almost an impossibility.

mduell · Sep 11, 2008, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I knew something was amiss with the claim there was no Firewire on a minidv camcorder. That's almost an impossibility.

I think someone made one (with USB and proprietary software), but I can't find it at the moment.