[MacTheRiverRat]

Is Apple seeing a new trend or are they testing the waters for the end of Firewire? Apple always starts a trend while other's follow down the road.
http://tinyurl.com/5uwj2n

[shifuimam]

I don't know about Apple being the cause of the end of FireWire.

The rest of the market hasn't really adopted FW for anything but digital video, which is only because FW provides faster sustained throughput than USB 2.0, which is necessary when transferring video in realtime.

With USB 3.0 coming out soon enough, that point may become obsolete. I think Apple already figured out that they killed FW when they didn't make FW800 backward-compatible with 400, personally.

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

...they didn't make FW800 backward-compatible with 400, personally.

It is backwards compatible, and simply needs an adapter or the appropriate cable.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I think Apple already figured out that they killed FW when they didn't make FW800 backward-compatible with 400, personally.

It's exactly the other way around. The moment FW800 came out Apple should have fitted all Macs with only FW800 ports. Everybody coud have kept on using their FW400 devices.

But the way they played it a small standard already fighting against big competition suddenly became divided into two even smaller standards. It was mainly Apple that killed FW. Now I'm all for leaving it out. That way consumer devices are streamlined and we can concentrate on having one common interface. In the pro world where people actually rely on FW they can still get stuff like PCIe cards or EC/34 with FW ports. In the consumer world we'll just have to put up with USB2 until USB3 is ready.

[Ted L. Nancy]

Originally Posted by Simon 

It's exactly the other way around. The moment FW800 came out Apple should have fitted all Macs with only FW800 ports. Everybody coud have kept on using their FW400 devices.

Agreed. The FW400 ports on my Mac Pro are a waste of space and make me feel like my awesome computer is obsolete. I try not to look at them and their ugliness.

[mduell]

This "trend" was started years ago by just about every other OEM.

[Simon]

Agreed. Optical drives are on the way out.

Yesterday a colleague came to my office with an 8GB USB stick he bought for less than $20. These drives are small, cheap, robust, and they're easily faster than CDs or DVDs.

Media can be distributed through networks. Software can be distributed through networks or for example on such a stick. Optical media is bulky and requires drives with mechanical components. It's definitely going to be removed from many portable computers in the near future.

[lpkmckenna]

FW400 was crucial during the PPC era because USB makes heavier demands on the CPU than FW, because FW devices are "smarter" and FW computers have their own discreet controller and bus. In the Intel era, the CPU is so fast that the benefits of FW400 are largely wiped out. USB-only devices are cheaper than dual devices.

Apple wants to position FW800 as the "proper" standard for pro-audio and pro-video, and USB2 as the standard for other devices. Differentiation has always been an Apple marketing goal.

The new MacBooks are already expensive. Adding the discreet chip and bus to the machine would have only made it more expensive. If you "must" have that FW port, you can downgrade to the $999 MacBook or upgrade to the MBP.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Agreed. Optical drives are on the way out.

Yesterday I colleague came to my office with an 8GB USB stick he bought for less than $20. These drives are small, cheap, robust, and they're easily faster than CDs or DVDs.

Media can be distributed through networks. Software can be distributed through networks or for example on such a stick. Optical media is bulky and requires drives with mechanical components. It's definitely going to be removed from many portable computers in the near future.

I don't know if optical media is going to disappear that quickly.

People still want to be able to watch DVDs on their media center PCs (not everyone is willing to shell out money for DRM-laced movie downloads that only play on certain hardware and/or with certain software), and optical media doesn't have limited read/write cycles the way that flash media does. Even though a lot of games and stuff can now be downloaded from companies instead of purchased, there are still people who aren't on broadband and need to be able to buy hard copies of their software.

While media cards and flash drives are cheap, they're still not as cheap as archiving stuff to CD or DVD, and they're not as reliable long-term. A good quality Verbatim DataLife CD will last ten years. I've had flash drives crap out much sooner than that, and they're more susceptible to data corruption than CDs (magnets, crappy USB ports, etc).

The MBA, like netbooks, is not really meant to be a replacement for a fully-functional laptop. It's more a supplementary thing (notice that even with the virtual CD/DVD tool, you need a computer with an optical drive...) to your existing computer(s). I think it'll be awhile before optical drives disappear from mainstream computer hardware.

Also: I don't buy that FW would have raised the price or made the case bigger. It's a pretty small thing to add, hardware-wise, and the prices on the new MacBooks went up considerably (and not at all proportionate to the hardware spec bumps).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I don't know if optical media is going to disappear that quickly.

People still want to be able to watch DVDs on their media center PCs (not everyone is willing to shell out money for DRM-laced movie downloads that only play on certain hardware and/or with certain software), and optical media doesn't have limited read/write cycles the way that flash media does.

Those for whom that is an issue have *already* taken to downloading their media illegally and storing them on hard drives over optial media.

[Simon]

Yeah, that's exactly the point. With more and more draconian DRM schemes being installed a lot of people I know are now ready to pass up on DVDs or BRs. Some will download through iTS or an equivalent while others will simply get the stuff through BT. To a large extent I blame the studios for this. They have succeeded in making pirated content more accessible than legally obtained content.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Also: I don't buy that FW would have raised the price or made the case bigger. It's a pretty small thing to add, hardware-wise, and the prices on the new MacBooks went up considerably (and not at all proportionate to the hardware spec bumps).

I think you can judge these things differently than Apple, but the facts remain nevertheless. By removing FW Apple was able to save a few cents on an extra controller (FW is not part of the 9400M G chipset). In addition they could make the board a tiny bit smaller and in turn increase battery size by a little bit.

Sure this was entirely Apple's decision. They could have gone with a slightly smaller battery and a slightly reduced margin, but they didn't want to. They took the conscious decision that FW is not required in the consumer space.

People may agree or disagree with that. Only time will tell if Apple made the right call.

[MacTheRiverRat]

I'm not a Pro or power user. The few time that I have used FW has been when I was staying @ a hotel and hooking up to their hi-speed internet access. To me apple should make it that if one orders a computer from the mother ship they should be able to configure it the way they would like it. Just like when I ordered my Aluminum unibody MB. It one wanted it configured to their likings it would tell you what it will cost you. JMHO!

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by MacTheRiverRat 

I'm not a Pro or power user. The few time that I have used FW has been when I was staying @ a hotel and hooking up to their hi-speed internet access.

You've confused firewire and ethernet. All Macbooks have ethernet.

[MacTheRiverRat]

Originally Posted by ChrisF 

You've confused firewire and ethernet. All Macbooks have ethernet.

Yes I have! I stand corrected!

Its not that I'm stupid. Its just I don't know anything!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Iand optical media doesn't have limited read/write cycles the way that flash media does.

Most optical media can only be written to once.

How is that not a limited write cycle?