[Veltliner]

In the PC world, higher end computers come with a Blu-Ray player.

In the TV world, Blu-Ray acceptance is picking up its pace: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/te...ml?_r=1&hp

In the Apple world, still no Blu-Ray.

While I understand that the prices for burners where outrageous for a while, they have come down considerably.

A Blu-Ray burner is the only option if you want to actually see what you shot with an HD camcorder or a DSLR with movie capability.

I think it's high time for apple to put a Blu-Ray burner into its higher end units.

I see there will always be a need to burn CDs. What solution would it be: a new Blu-Ray/CD "Hyper"Drive, or two drives.

And is it really the quarrel with licensing fees that's keeping Apple from finally adapting Blu-Ray?

[Eug]

I've been told it's both licencing fees and OS modifications that would be necessary, with the latter being the bigger issue.

Either way, I'll just add an external drive when BR burner prices and BR media prices both drop.

EDIT:

I just checked and media prices have dropped significantly, in the last couple of months. A 10 pack of Sony or Verbatim 4X Blu-ray media goes for about US$30 now. Nice.

Anyone have any recommendations for Blu-ray burners?

[olePigeon]

With HDDs being so cheap, I don't see the point of Blu-Ray.

[mduell]

When iTMS stops printing money. Apple has no problem with DRM (FairPlay, HDCP) or licensing fees (DVD CCA).

Originally Posted by Eug 

Anyone have any recommendations for Blu-ray burners?

8x write, 4x DL write, 2x rewrite... $150

[Simon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

With HDDs being so cheap, I don't see the point of Blu-Ray.

Same here. I'm skipping BR because I simply don't need it and of course because I don't want it, that is I don't like the bag of hurt it comes with.

[Big Mac]

Blu-Ray is nice to have for an HDTV, but I question its value on computers. The DRM makes it too encumbered to be of much value on computers, especially when there are online video alternatives on your computer. There would not be a problem if they just left it with DVD style minimal DRM. Perhaps one day they'll open the format up a bit and Apple will begrudgingly adopt it. I can see the lack of it being a prominent hole in Apple's video production lineup, but then again Apple seems to be moving away from that market anyway.

[Spheric Harlot]

Quite possibly, never. It's just a data storage format, made useless by DRM.

Apple has started adding SD card slots to their machines. I wonder why?

[Eug]

I'm not getting Blu-ray to watch videos on my computer. It's for secondary backup. It's much cheaper and easier to backup 25 GB worth of data on a regular basis and keep the backups offsite with a $3 disc than with a second $60 external drive.

I just keep a book full of DVD discs in a CD album in the cupboard. The problem is now the stuff I want to backup is becoming much more data, usually over 4 GB, and sometimes over 10 GB, so sometimes using DVDs gets to be a little bit of a pain.

Originally Posted by mduell 

8x write, 4x DL write, 2x rewrite... $150

Thanks, but why specifically that one? The Plextor PX-B320SA is in the same price range, and both seem to get reasonable reviews. Just wondering.

[olePigeon]

HDDs are cheaper. They also don't die if exposed to sunlight. Why not just buy a couple large HDDs in an external case?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

HDDs are cheaper. They also don't die if exposed to sunlight. Why not just buy a couple large HDDs in an external case?

I have several large HDDs in external cases. They are my primary backups. They're very annoying for off-site backups though. I don't like lugging hard drives around.

And last I checked, there is no sunlight in my cupboard.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I have several large HDDs in external cases. They are my primary backups. They're very annoying for off-site backups though. I don't like lugging hard drives around.

And last I checked, there is no sunlight in my cupboard.

A tiny 2.5" USB drive doesn't seem that much bigger.

To each his own, I guess.

[Eug]

Actually, what's becoming viable are USB pen drives.

Pretty soon it will be relatively cheap to get 64-128 GB USB pen drives. It will be less annoying to transfer large amounts of data around when fast versions of those things drop to $50 or whatever. I give it 2 years.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Thanks, but why specifically that one? The Plextor PX-B320SA is in the same price range, and both seem to get reasonable reviews. Just wondering.

That Plextor can't burn BR... makes it pretty useless, no?

[Eug]

Ah I see. The store website I was looking at said it did, but that was mistaken.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually, what's becoming viable are USB pen drives.

Pretty soon it will be relatively cheap to get 64-128 GB USB pen drives. It will be less annoying to transfer large amounts of data around when fast versions of those things drop to $50 or whatever. I give it 2 years.

I was at some store the other day (Office Depot?) and I saw that they had movies on 4 GB flash drives for $10-15. I thought that was really interesting. Plus, if the movie sucks, then you have an extra flash drive

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I just checked and media prices have dropped significantly, in the last couple of months. A 10 pack of Sony or Verbatim 4X Blu-ray media goes for about US$30 now. Nice.

Isn't it? Looks like Blu-Ray is vying to get everybody's acceptance.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Blu-Ray is nice to have for an HDTV, but I question its value on computers. The DRM makes it too encumbered to be of much value on computers, especially when there are online video alternatives on your computer. There would not be a problem if they just left it with DVD style minimal DRM. Perhaps one day they'll open the format up a bit and Apple will begrudgingly adopt it. I can see the lack of it being a prominent hole in Apple's video production lineup, but then again Apple seems to be moving away from that market anyway.

DRM - I see the problem.

What do you mean by Apple moving away from video production? Do you think people are dropping Final Cut Studio for, let's say, Adobe Premiere?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Apple has started adding SD card slots to their machines. I wonder why?

Good point.

You can transport an HD movie using an SD card, and no need to burn a disc.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not getting Blu-ray to watch videos on my computer. It's for secondary backup. It's much cheaper and easier to backup 25 GB worth of data on a regular basis and keep the backups offsite with a $3 disc than with a second $60 external drive.

Honestly, my Blu-Ray interest was primarily the recording of footage shot in HD.

For back-up, and external hard disc drive sounds better to handle: you can update the back-up, which you can't with a burnt disc.

Honestly, for backing up I never used disc. Too much trouble.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And last I checked, there is no sunlight in my cupboard.

I like your style of cupboard

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

DRM - I see the problem.

Yeah, if Blu-Ray had kept minimal, DVD style DRM instead of the draconian crap it imposes, I'm sure Apple would have Blu-Ray, at least on the pro models, by now.

What do you mean by Apple moving away from video production? Do you think people are dropping Final Cut Studio for, let's say, Adobe Premiere?

Not for Adobe Premiere, no. What I meant was that it seems like Apple is reducing its focus on its professional content authoring solutions that it started building in the latter 1990s. Apple is much more focused on trendy electronics and boutique computers than it was before, and I think that the shift in that direction comes at a certain cost. It seems like DVD Studio has been left to languish; if Apple truly were serious about it we would have Blu-Ray support there by now, I think. Also, Shake, which had been a market leader, was allowed to die on the vine and now is officially gone from the lineup completely. Apple seems to think Motion is the replacement for it, but the professionals who relied on Shake don't see it that way. See what I'm driving at?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Pretty soon it will be relatively cheap to get 64-128 GB USB pen drives. It will be less annoying to transfer large amounts of data around when fast versions of those things drop to $50 or whatever. I give it 2 years.

Heh. Today I got a package...

I had asked a company I was dealing with to courier a disc to me with some files on it, because they were too big to email. They didn't. They sent me a 2 GB USB flash drive instead. I guess it was just easier for them to do that, and 2 GB drives cost all of $8 these days.

[Simon]

Plus with the stick you just copy. There's none of this burning in sessions nonsense that CD/DVDs require. I can't wait till the last optical has been replaced by USB memory.

On a related note. I've never heard of it, so I guess it doesn't exist. But does somebody know for sure if there's anything like a BluRay analog to DVD-RAM?

[Veltliner]

I see, the quick flash memory has made blu-ray unnecessary.

Just wonder how long it will take that Blu-Ray will be unnecessary generally.

I mean I barely listen to CDs any more, but play them directly from the hard drive.

As soon as we will be able to download a 1080p video in ten minutes and store it on our hard drives (getting cheaper all the time), nobody will probably buy Blu-Ray discs any more.

[Big Mac]

I think Blu-Ray definitely has its place for the average consumer of HD media. Consumers who now have HDTVs don't care about Blu-Ray being a bag of hurt in terms of licensing and DRM restrictions. They want HD quality content in the living room. Blu-Ray offers that in a way that's similar to what consumers have had with DVDs. There are also rich content features found on Blu-Ray that don't get replicated on download services.

Flash memory does not offer the same experience, and I don't see Hollywood shifting to such a distribution scheme unless a seismic shift in their marketing effort were to occur. And while I like iTunes because of my inherent Apple fanboy-ism, it too does not offer the same living room experience unless you're among those who have an AppleTV. Now the PS3 and XBox download services do offer high quality living room entertainment experiences, but of course with the PS3 you have their download service and Blu-Ray.

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I can't wait till the last optical has been replaced by USB memory.

That day will only happen for me when USB memory is as cheap as current DVDs which are about $0.30 USA cents per 4.7 GB disc. I give clients copies of data on DVDs often enough that it's not really financially wise to just give away USB memory cards. $8 is still a lot more than $0.30. If I was only doing it occasionally then $8 is nothing but when you do it often it does add up as an expense.

With the growing size of data files even DVDs are starting to become too small so I was hoping Blu-Ray would come down in prices too. They are currently something like $2.50 per disc which is less than what there were at the beginning but I also get 25 GB per disc. I also would like a write once version of USB memory like I can do with optical discs because I don't want my clients accidentally writing over the data I gave them.

[Eug]

While memory is getting cheaper and cheaper, one issue is still that USB cards still require USB electronics and the physical USB port. That will keep the pricing more than optical disc, even if prices decrease significantly. It will be hard even a few years from now for USB flash to compete with 25 GB BD-Rs, the latter of which will be going for under 50¢.

It's no surprise that as memory sizes increase, the USB flash drive prices still have a floor to them. While 2 GB drives are $8, people generally do not bother to sell 1 GB for $4, or 512 MB for $2. After a while, 4 GB will be the new floor.

[Veltliner]

I see the key market for Blu-Ray is the home movie experience and the fact that you can physically own a movie.

As for now, the download version is probably not as convincing as paying for a disc.

I just wonder if people will start buying Blu-Rays as wildly as they bought DVDs.

I was never a big buyer of discs. I rent them from Netflix, and few of them get so close to me that I have to own them.

But who knows what faster and faster internet connections will bring us...

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

But who knows what faster and faster internet connections will bring us...

A high ass bill when they start charging you per GB to download, on top of your download sale/rental?

[Eug]

The other problem is that the quality is nowhere near in the same league. HD video downloads simply don't compare to Blu-ray.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The other problem is that the quality is nowhere near in the same league. HD video downloads simply don't compare to Blu-ray.

As for now, it's correct. But it's not necessarily so.

A Blu-Ray tops out at 50 Gb. Once the high speed connections are on par with something like T1 you could download those huge data loads and have the same quality as Blu-Ray.

But I agree: there is a joy in having a physical disc. It took me a while to feel comfortable buying software via download (and not having a disc).

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

As for now, it's correct. But it's not necessarily so.

A Blu-Ray tops out at 50 Gb. Once the high speed connections are on par with something like T1 you could download those huge data loads and have the same quality as Blu-Ray.

A T1 is 1.5Mbps.

(50 gigabytes) / (1.5 Mbps) = 3.16049383 days

So you're rationed to 2 movies a week, assuming you do nothing else online.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by EndlessMac 

That day will only happen for me when USB memory is as cheap as current DVDs which are about $0.30 USA cents per 4.7 GB disc. I give clients copies of data on DVDs often enough that it's not really financially wise to just give away USB memory cards. $8 is still a lot more than $0.30. If I was only doing it occasionally then $8 is nothing but when you do it often it does add up as an expense.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to expect USB drives to replace optical media when they cost an order of magnitude more. Something like SD cards may have a better chance at getting cheap enough, since they at least won't have to have the USB circuitry in there.

[ajprice]

One possibility is that, once the price is right for burners and media (everything except the Mac Pro would need a slimline laptop type drive), they are working on versions of iMovie and iDVD to put HD camcorder stuff onto your own Blu-ray discs at the full resolution. Would there be any DRM issues in recording your own stuff to a BR disc?

[Big Mac]

No DRM issues with your own content burned to Blu-Ray, unless it's by your choosing.