[austeros]

i am a college student looking into purchasing a pda to use with my imac rev b. I am currently running mac os X 10.0.4 as well as mac os 9.1, and i am curious to what everyone here would recommend for me to get, based on my needs. obviously i will wait till after macworld, just in case apple surprises us, either way i would still like your opinions. I am pretty much just looking at palm and handspring.

basically i would use the thing to replace my old franklin planner. i would use it as a schedule/datebook, an address book, etc. I would want to be able to sync with my imac, so i can get pocket quicken, etc. i am not too interested in getting one with a modem, the palm 7 looks nice, but the palm net rates are far too high for my taistes.

also, is it even possible to use IR on an imac rev b running os X? i would think so, but then again ir hasnt been on too many mac models these days

finally, would a springboard slot be a must have? the palm 105 looks good except for lacking a feature similar to one of these, and charging extra for a usb cradle.

thanks in advance

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Whatever you do DON'T get and Visor Edge over the Palm 500.
The Palms are MUCH better for the same price.

I recommend you get the Palm 500.

[ridge_hippie]

I have owned both a Handspring Visor Deluxe and a Palm Vx. In my experience the Visor was a better made product. The design felt better in the hand and the buttons had a nice touch. When it came to hot syncing the Visor Deluxe put the Palm to shame. The primary reason being that the Palm cradle is poorly designed and not terribly reliable. In fact, I replaced it three times. I'd get the latest Visor and think of Palm as a software manufacturer.

Good luck.

[TimmyDee51]

I am a college student, too, and I use a Newton 2100. For my purposes, it kicks the pants off any other handheld out there. I use it for dates, addresses, email, web, word processing, games, balancing my checkbook (PQ), and more. I thought about a Palm, but the Newton can do so much more. I can sync it with my Mac via 9.1 (I use 10.0.4 as well) but I have found that the Newton is so venerable that it doesn't even need to do that.

As an added plus, I have a keyboard that I can take with my Newton to the library or science building and write a paper on it and send it to my Mac as an *.rtf. After that, I can import it into AppleWorks or Word or just about anything else I want. I am also going abroad next year second semester and I can't take a computer along, even a laptop, due to space constraints. What'll I do? Pack up the Newton and my 28.8 PCMCIA modem and use that for everything I need. I can tap into the university's ISP system in town and then use a calling card like system for on the road.

Nothing beats the Newton. The HWR is the best and the size isn't that much of a concern, since I take a bag almost everywhere I go on campus. Figure that in along with the computing power (162 MHz, 4 MB storage, 4 MB RAM) you get for about $300, and you have one hell of a handheld. To buy one, join NewtonTalk at www.newtontalk.net or check eBay. You won't be sorry.

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>
also, is it even possible to use IR on an imac rev b running os X? i would think so, but then again ir hasnt been on too many mac models these days

finally, would a springboard slot be a must have? the palm 105 looks good except for lacking a feature similar to one of these, and charging extra for a usb cradle.</STRONG>

afaik, IR is not supported in OS X for any of Apple's IR-enabled models. However, IR syncing works great under OS 9, on my Lombard at least. I didn't even buy a USB cradle.

The springboard slot definitely does look cool, but for your stated purposes, a m105 would be more than sufficient.

Disclaimer: I am an intern at Palm, so may or may not have some bias.

[austeros]

how is the newton for durability? will it stay in good order getting banged around in my bag all day, since it is a few years old already?

if i go palm, i am probably going to get an m105 or m500. i am just wondering if i will really need an expansion slot? i dont care about games or anything, since i can just buy a gameboy

thanks for all the advice so far.

The Newton is not good for durability. Mine broke after about a month and a half. Even when it worked, I found the screen to be unreadable - it was made before the recent advances found in current PDA screens.

[TimmyDee51]

I don't know what Jacob S is talking about, let alone which Newton model, but I find my 2100 both durable and readable. There have been many Newtons on the NewtonTalk list that have survived falls of 3-4 feet or more onto bare concrete. Try that with a Visor or a Palm and I almost guarantee the screen will break. Age isn't an issue with reliability. If it does break, Dr. Newton will fix it for a reasonable fee. If a lot goes wrong (which it probably won't), Apple will fix everything that's wrong with it, to the point of replacement if is really hosed for under $200. Plus, if you find the screen unreadable, use the backlight. It's amazing.

Like I said, I carry the Newton around to most, if not all of my classes, into the caf, the library, into town, etc. and it has been just fine. No damage, scratches, or anything for wear. If you have anymore questions, just email me. I'd be more than happy to answer any of them.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>how is the newton for durability? will it stay in good order getting banged around in my bag all day, since it is a few years old already?

if i go palm, i am probably going to get an m105 or m500. i am just wondering if i will really need an expansion slot? i dont care about games or anything, since i can just buy a gameboy

thanks for all the advice so far.</STRONG>

I have 3 Newton's and I don't recommend it for you. Why don't you just get a Palm Vx. They don't have expansion slots and are about the same as a m500 but much cheaper.

[new newton]

If size isn't an issue, get a Newton. They're great machines. Mine's been banged around in bags, briefcases, and pockets for 4 years and is still going strong. It's the pinacle of PDAs when it comes to quality, OS, and thoughtfulness in design. You'll find nothing better, just things that are smaller.

Size is why I got a Vx. It's small enough that I take it everywhere. I just wish it was capable of all that my Newton is. I still use the Newton for many tasks, but I no longer have pockets big enough or a bag with me all the time.

One of these days, I'll get a real job and have to wear a suit. At that point, my Newt will find a comfortable home in a shoulder holster, and my Palm will find a new owner.

[Nyuni]

I recently ventured out into the world of PDA's, figuring it would be best to grab one of these über organizers for college. I went out on the market and took a good look at all the offerings out there.. Palm, Handspring, Sony, HP, et al. I found that I couldn't stand the teeny screens on any of the Palm-OS based units, and while Microsoft's Pocket PC systems were bearable as far as screen size goes, I found it hard to stomach the organization of applications and files. I also needed a PDA that would integrate flawlessly into the school's ethernet network, so I could take the thing along with me and get email and web access from anywhere. Options for Ethernet connectivity were almost nil on the palm (and those I found were horribly cost prohibitive), and things weren't much better on the PocketPC side of things. I'd remembered the MessagePad 2000 that I'd lusted over back in '97.. and decided to look into those. Everything I'd read about them suggested that I'd be able to do everything I wanted with the Newton cheaply and easily, and the large format of the screen just couldn't be beat for me. So, I finally took the plunge and picked one up off of eBay for about $311, with a 33.6 modem card and a 10BaseT ethernet card included. The Newton has hands down blown away anything I've looked at that's on the market today, and connectivity through ethernet and modem is unmatched. I've recently just picked up a 20mb memory card for it, and I plan to record my lectures for future playback. I can't imagine having done half of the things on a Palm or PocketPC that this Newton has done or promises to do, and the unit is by far much more sturdy and durable than any of the other PDAs out there that just feel, well.. delicate.

It's amazing how Apple hit a home run in the PDA department, all the way back in the 90's. The Newton is one hell of a versatile, fast, and incredibly useful PDA.. and I have no doubts that it will serve me well in all the uses I put it towards. I reccomend it wholeheartedly.

Austeros,

I guess it would depend on exactly what your needs are (I notice that you don't really tell us)! The Palms and Visors are great for extreme portability and synching with applications on the Mac. On the other hand, their screens are so small it's almost hard to classify them as more than a glorified organizer. But, if that's all you need it for (calendaring, addresses/phone numbers, very quick notes), then the Palm/Visor route is definitely the way to go. This is especially true because of future compatability and continuing software development.

The Newton, on the other hand, is more of a complete computer. The bigger screens are very nice (and clear--I don't have a clue what Jacob S is talking about above), and make things like word processing and spreadsheet or database work much easier and more enjoyable. Taking notes with Newton's handwriting recognition is easy as well--which is especially useful if you take written notes in a class or do a lot of traveling fieldwork that involves a lot of note taking. If you're going to do any of the above things, Palms and Visors are tedious at best. The Newton's larger screen is great for internet stuff as well. The Newton's, in my experience, are extremely durable. Apple still repairs them (for a charge if they're not under warrantee), and I think they are required to do so until the year 2007 or so. There is also a guy called Dr. Newton who does upgrades and minor repairs. I don't think you'd be disappointed with a Newton.

Of course, the Newton has drawbacks as well. It's a bit bigger (doesn't fit in a pocket), software development is slowing noticably (although most software is free now!), and synching to applications on your Mac is more problematic than with Palms (although not impossible). So, it depends what you need, and what exactly you're looking for!

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I think you guys need to read the original post again.
"basically i would use the thing to replace my old franklin planner. i would use it as a schedule/datebook, an address book, etc. I would want to be able to sync with my imac, so i can get pocket quicken, etc. i am not too interested in getting one with a modem."

Now are you actually recommending to this guy that he needs a 4 year old Newton to act as a date book?

I think this is turning into a Newton support thread and not valid advice. I love the Newton as well but common! He is using this thing for exactly the reasons that Palms exist!
Not to mention does he want to worry about old Newton technology hardware/software working on OSX in the future?

The Newton was a great computer but it is far to BIG, expensive and elaborate for what you want to use it for.
2 Card slots.
Huge screen.
For a date book?

Look at the Palms type handhelds. You will not have to take a bag with you everywhere to carry your Newton just so you can look up a date.

[Nyuni]

Severed Hand-

I don't know about the other posters who have reccommended a Newton before me, but I was merely pointing out how the Newton works in my college life. I know he said he was looking for something for that very purpose, and so I presented my views on how my choice of a PDA for college occurred.

I wouldn't consider myself a blind "Newton supporter" that won't use anything else just because it isn't a Newton. (Hell, that goes for the Mac, too. I've got a W2k box sitting on my desk beside my iMac.)

My idea was merely to convey how I came to my decision. He asked for advice, it was given. If anybody seems to be getting oversupportive of any single platform, it would seem to be you, constantly lauding the Palm.

You gave your advice, once is enough, let others add their views to the discussion without pouncing on them.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Nyuni:
<STRONG>You gave your advice, once is enough, let others add their views to the discussion without pouncing on them.</STRONG>

I am not saying that you can't give your opinion I am just wondering why so many Newton lovers here are recommending a Newton to this guy when it is overkill by a ton for what he needs. I am not a Palm lover, I don't even own one..... I own 3 Newton's (100, 130 and 2000).

If you read some posts (including yours) they are not just saying that the Newton is cool, they are recommending it for his needs.

All I ask is that you look at what he wants to use it for.

[mmurray]

Amongst all these reasons for buying this and that nobody has mentioned USB sync. Surely the greatly increased speed of syncing is a good reason for choosing the 500 over the 105 ?

Michael

[austeros]

i thank you for all the newton advice, but i think severed hand is right. i do just need a glorified datebook (ie a palm). the newton would be nice to work in the library and all, but i have an old powerbook 190cs that i use there, and the newton would just be a new expensive toy. if apple released a new version of the newton might be a different story.

i do appreciate all of the newton advice, and if i didnt have that old laptop, it might be a different story. but for now, can someone tell me how the palm 500, 105 and Vx differ?

thanks again all

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>
for now, can someone tell me how the palm 500, 105 and Vx differ?
</STRONG>

Palm has a comparison page. If you're interested in opinions, I'd say the m105 looks to be more than sufficient. It's almost as light as the other two, its speed shouldn't be an issue, and it is much cheaper.

[austeros]

hey thanks for that comparison page... so the only differences i see (other then size and faceplates which i dont care about) in the Vx and m105 is batteries, a few applications, and flash roms.

the m105 apps dont seem to matter much, but what do you think of the battery situation? i dont know how fast it is to drain the batteries on one of these things, but i do know i would be leaving it in the cradle alot, which makes me wonder if i would be ruining the recargable battery on the Vx.

and what about the flash roms? i am not going to use this for anything too advanced, but would i be shooting myself in the foot by getting one without flashable roms?

thanks again

[Vader's Robotic Stump]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>hey thanks for that comparison page... so the only differences i see (other then size and faceplates which i dont care about) in the Vx and m105 is batteries, a few applications, and flash roms.
thanks again</STRONG>

Here is the main differences.

The 105 has a 20% smaller screen then all the other models. It also has allot of plastic and feels cheap and clunky.
I don't know if it has a flash ROM but it is not vital, just OS updates that might never come out at all.
I don't recommend this unit (as the screen sucks and the hardware is big).

The Palm Vx (don't get the V, not enough RAM), is very small, sleek and has a flash ROM with rechargeable batteries. This is an extremely well selling unit and it deserves it. Putting it in the cradle will charge the battery and save you about $100 a year in alkalines for the 105.
The only downside is that this unit is not USB, you have to buy an adapter but that is cheap. Don't worry about the speed of serial for dates and phone numbers it is not an issue.
This unit should also be cheap and I highly recommend it.

The Palm 500 is a awesome machine for Palm handhelds. It has a slightly better quality screeen with better contrast then the Vx. It also has nifty little features like flashing and vibrating alarms.
Other nice things like Card slots, upgradeable ROM, USB and rechargeable batteries.
The problem is that it is the newest model and therefore you pay a lot, for another $70 you can have the same thing in colour. If you want the latest and the greatest that is future proof for a while then this is the model for you.

The Visor Edge is the same cost as the Palm 500 but does not have a single advantage and about 5 disadvantages. Not at all recommended.

Hope that helps.

[new newton]

I think right now the sweet spot in the Palm lineup is the Vx. If you shop around, you can get one new for just a bit over the price of an m105. I got mine last month for $220. I compared it to the m500 before I bought it, and side by side there wasn't much difference. The only advantage the m500 would have had for me was the vibrating alarm, but I didn't see that as being worth the $170 premium. The Vx can take OS4 when it ships, and the m105 can't.

For a couple bucks more you can't beat the ugradability, rechargability, and sleekness.

[a7777777]

I have a Visor Delux And a iMac they work great togeather.
If all you want it for is to use the datebook, and adressbook
You should look at a visor or a visor delux.
Expanshion may be neccisary if you keep it for a while
they make a cell phone, wire less modem and much more
for them.
Check the out athandspring
if you have any further questions email me at alex@kopperhead.com

[austeros]

is there any other way to connect the palm vx to usb other then the palm kit? since its $50 more, i might aswell splurge to get the 500.
thanks

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>is there any other way to connect the palm vx to usb other then the palm kit? since its $50 more, i might aswell splurge to get the 500.
thanks</STRONG>

You have an iMac Rev. B, which, according to this page, has an IrDA port (like most modern Powerbooks). So you buy a Vx, using the non-USB cradle only for recharging, and sync over infrared if you wanted to.

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG>is there any other way to connect the palm vx to usb other then the palm kit? since its $50 more, i might aswell splurge to get the 500.
thanks</STRONG>

Hmm, looks like if you get the Palm Vx it is $299 + $50 for the adapter = $350

For $100 you can get the Palm 505 in Colour and no need for an adapter.

Or for $50 you can get the Pam 500 and again, no need for the adapter.

I think you should say nuts to the Palm Vx and go for the m500 or m505 as you gain alot for a little more money.

[seventray]

I understand that you have pretty much given up on the Newton, but I would like to offer my perspective as I feel I was pretty much in your position around six months ago. I was interested in a PDA for grad school and for the exact same reasons that you are - I was really growing tired of using my paper organizer. I posted here and listened to all of the replies. I then researched all of the models suggested, but like you, I discounted the Newton at that time because it was "older" technology. I then purchased a Visor for $250 new.

To make a long story short, I returned the Visor soon after and I returned to the thread that I posted. The only product that I hadn't fully researched was the Newton, so I started looking into it. Many suggested the high-end models of the 2000 or the 2100 but I didn't need all of the things that they described as being the greatest features of those models. I looked around and found a barely used Newton 120 for around $100 (which I believe you were worried about the cost of "older" technology) and I can tell you after six months of use, it is exactly what I was looking for. It organizes my life wonderfully and I soon realized that the "old" technology was far greater than the current for my needs.

So, don't discount the Newton because it is perceived as being large or because it is older. There are so many wonderful things about this machine. Look into it yourself and you may see that it has many benefits over current models. The only thing that I don't do with my Newton that you would do with a current model would be to sync to my iMac, but I have never felt the need. It is purely a stand-alone for me and syncing quickly became tedious with my Visor. Also, I recently revisited my Newton Handbook and found 10 or more things in there that I had simply overlooked that I never knew my Newton was capable of. Good luck on your decision.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: seventray ]

Well said seventray, I sync. my AMP2KU's every once in a while just for fun and to make sure the 'soups' are ok. Other than that, I use my Newts. for everything. Funny thing, I got a Sony VAIO laptop, barely use it since my Newts. do most of what I need. Just color stuff and downloading software that only comes in .sit or .zip forms.

[new newton]

Why would anyone pay the MSRP of $299 for a Vx when you can find them for $80 cheaper than that?

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by new newton:
<STRONG>Why would anyone pay the MSRP of $299 for a Vx when you can find them for $80 cheaper than that?</STRONG>

Because I didn't shop around, I looked at Microwarehouse and that was the listed price. If you know were to get it cheaper perhaps you could be kind enough to share.

[new newton]

Take a look at pricewatch.com. They're as low as $212 now, before shipping.

[austeros]

yeah, i was making that determination my self to skywalker, but i did think of pricewatch, which makes it a little different. i am still looking at the 505 though, since it is only $30 more on pricewatch, it would be nice to have some color pictures, otherwise i guess i am going with the vx.


i still have 3-4 weeks before i have to decide, so if someone could give me a page that might explain the different newtons, i would appreciate it and give the newton a second look (i have big hands, so it might be a good idea).

thanks again

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by austeros:
<STRONG> i would appreciate it and give the newton a second look (i have big hands, so it might be a good idea).

thanks again</STRONG>

You don't have to worry about the size of your hand with the Newton. You have to worry about the size of your bag. Don't even think about getting it in a pocket.

[new newton]

That depends on what kind of pockets you have, Head. I used to fit my 2100 in my leg pocket on my USAF uniform, where it when quite nicely. Some folks where the baggy pants that have pockets large enough as well.

Having used both now, I can say that Newton feels better in my hand. It's easier to work on for long periods of time.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by new newton:
<STRONG>That depends on what kind of pockets you have, Head. I used to fit my 2100 in my leg pocket on my USAF uniform, where it when quite nicely. Some folks where the baggy pants that have pockets large enough as well.</STRONG>

I guess the added bonus is that you have a cool limp then.
Possy out.

[sine -''-..-]

alright. shuttup children