[seventray]

Hello, I am finding that I want a PDA, but less for the traditional reasons. I could definitely use the organizational programs that are standard, but I am hoping to use it for much more. I owned a Newton while in graduate school but got rid of it once I got the position I am in now. I considered buying an iBook to carry around with me everywhere, but I think that it may be a bit overkill. I want a PDA that I can use to access the internet, email, write text documents, play games, listen to MP3's, view pictures and movies, etc. I have looked into a few but there don't seem to be many PDA sites any longer that have forums. I was hoping that some of you guys could make some suggestions on some that are currently available or provide me with some information of upcoming products. One thing is that I am not a fan of Microsoft at all. Through my research, I have found one that I am fond of but I am not sure whether it will be as great of a product as I believe it will be. The PDA that I like is the upcoming Sharp Zaurus with the slide out keyboard that runs Linux. Do you think this is a viable option for a Mac-fan?

[Raman]

You want a little computer. Do yourself a favor and buy a PDA that is a little more than a hacker's toy. Get a PocketPC2002. I personally will probably get the new HP Jornada.

[mikithecrackhead]

I think seventray said that he was not a fan of microsoft and guess what? pocket PCs only run their own propietary microsoft software and hardware. Get a palm There are lots of programs available for any palm, As much as I hate sony's products for not supporting us mac users their PDA's are pretty. Palms are OK but only the higher end models are mac compatible out of the box. Handspring however,Are mac compatible right out of the box. i could go on and on about Handspring, You could get a reconditioned visor deluxe for only $99 here

• You could also get an MP3 player for the visor mini jam MP3 for the handspring visor
  
  If you want a camera for your PDA you have your choice of 3; Eye module $50 at Staples
  Eye module 2$160
  , and the Targus Handcam $80
  If you are interested in Modems, or connecting to the internet there are over a dozen available options check some of them out hereHave a cellphone, and you don't want to pay for a modem,
  
  buy a cable to connect any pda to your cell

Want to expand your pda? with a Handspring you can use any type of memory card available. With the Sony models you are limited to the memory stick, With Palms you are limited to SD cards with ipag and jornadas you are limited to CF cards, With Handspring use call use All of these expansion cards and then some;

• Compact Flash (CF),
  Smart Media cards,
  Sony memory stick,
  SD / MMC,
  and of course handspring's own springboard memory expansion cards

To give the others a fair shake the Handera offers two options for expansion, but their mac support is poor. Sony just dropped their price on their T415 now available for $250, you Could get a Palm color for $210 or the thin Vx for $140. There is also a linux based yopy ?which might not be available yet? There is also a linux based pda by sharp SL-5000D The problem with linux based PDAs is that there is little support for their own platform let alone mac compatiblity. The Handera 330 offers one of the best screens in a non color PDA they also have a trade in program and come with quick office. You could also use all of the Palm III peripherals with the handera. But the price is big at over $300 and it is not Mac Compatible out of the box. But Hope fully<font color = red> Palm will come out with a desk top update for the mac and we will not need a 3rd party conduit to connect to macs </font> My personal opinion I like the Handspring visors, because of their history of being kind to us mac users, IMHO they have fallen behind in design but overall they have the best PDA out there today for us mac users.

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: mikithecrackhead ]

[Cellery]

http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/clie/p...0c_index.shtml

I use this PDA and love it, it's very good and well worth the money. A gorgeous screen, built-in memory expansion, mp3 playback, and a nifty design make it my favorite out of the 4 PDAs I own. A PocketPC also has many capabilities, but there's something to be said for not buying M$.

I was pondering the new Jornada when it first came out, but $650 is a bit too much to spend on a handheld. I just kept my iPaq, it can do everything the PocketPC 2002 handhelds can, since I upgraded the OS to PPC 2002. The only thing that the new models have over it are extra RAM and 16 bit screens. You can do nifty stuff such as watch movies on a PPC, but I find that it's not much more than a cool showoff type thing, there's the problem of running the hard drive that stores the movies off a small battery, not to mention the processor and screen. The screen is also too small to watch comfortably for hours at a time. You can get a new iBook 500MHz Dual USB for about $900 now, that's not much more than a top-of the line PPC and you get so much more. If you're set on a handheld, go with the Sony Clie or an iPaq, you can find one of the 32Mb models for about $350 now. Good luck!

P.S. Check out the boards at brighthand.com for a wealth of information on PDAs. I wrote for them a while back and I'm one of the top 20 posters there! &lt;/plug&gt;

[Pauline]

I second the recommendation for the Sony Clie. Has all the functions of a Palm plus the mp3 player, better screen etc.

[wallinbl]

Check out the Sharp Zaurus 5500. It should be out next month. You should be able to find info on Sharp's website, and there was a post on it at www.slashdot.org in the last few days about it. Sorry for not posting more information or links, but I am in a hurry.

[mikithecrackhead]

All of the models mentioned above need a third party conduit to sync with your mac. The Sony Looks good but you better have a lot of money if you want to listen to MP3sMP3 sonys start at $450, or buy any type of accessories for it. Sony's expansion options Compare for yourself. As for the Pocket PC, they are even more expensive, IMHO they are not the best value for your money, Buy an ibook for that kind of money. Sony's are nice but you are paying a big premium for those looks

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: mikithecrackhead ]

[seventray]

Thanks for the replies so far. First, I would say that I would rather do without a PDA than buy a Microsoft product. Second, money is not the object. I just want to buy a PDA that will perform all the functions that I wish for it to perform and do it well. If that means that I need to wait for the technology to catch up with what I want, I don't mind doing that and that is why I was wondering if anyone knew of any great upcoming products or the direction the PDA market is taking. I have owned Palm OS products in the past, specifically a Visor, and I thought that PDA OS may have gotten more sophisticated. Maybe the Palm OS is more sophisticated than when I owned one a couple of years ago?

The most impressive PDA that I have found is the Sharp product. It seems to be the closest thing to what I am currently looking for, which is an updated Newton (but I'm pretty sure that is never going to happen). As I said, the iBook is an option but I wanted the smaller form factor of a PDA. A review of the Sharp product said that they intend to have a way to synch with OS X but I don't know if that is just talk?

Thanks again for the suggestions and especially the links. Any more ideas/opinions/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[tullamore]

There is a good number of PDA that are coming out using LINUX a real OS. Most have a small built in keyboard and because it is open source, you will be able to get any kind of program you might want to use. The screens that I have seen have also been larger than the usual PDA.

[mavapa]

seventray, what about the form factor, or in plainer English, the size of the PDA? I looked at the Palm 125, and liked it for the expansion capability and the apps that came with it, but it is simply too thick. I wanted a PDA that I could slip into a pocket comfortably. If I have to have a briefcase to carry the PDA, I might as well carry my ibook. I went with a reconditioned M500. But it sounds like you might need more capability, and perhaps a higher-resolution screen.

[wallinbl]

FYI, Here is a link to a review of the Sharp product. It looks pretty sweet. I hope it's not too expensive.
Here is a link to Sharp's page on the product

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: wallinbl ]

[Richard Clark]

The new Sharp product looks ok. The Clie's look better. I like the idea of the Sharp PDA running Linux . It would be even better if it was OS X / UNIX.

A month ago I bought a Handspring Visor Deluxe. It's ok. I carry it in my pocket wherever I go and I wish that it was thinner. In fact the size of a Visor Edge would be cool since it's so slim.

Personally it would be so nice to have Apple get back into the PDA market. But that is wishful thinking. To quote an En Vogue song: "Never Gonna Get it"

I would be more open to the Sony, Sharp, Hewlett Packard PDAs if they synched with Macs easier without a thrid party conduit.
But that's wishful thinking tool.

[Jansar]

Originally posted by tullamore:
<STRONG>There is a good number of PDA that are coming out using LINUX a real OS. Most have a small built in keyboard and because it is open source, you will be able to get any kind of program you might want to use. The screens that I have seen have also been larger than the usual PDA.</STRONG>

That will be the day when PDAs start using Linux. What a great operating system!

[seventray]

Well, I've gone a little deeper into the Zaurus. It appears to be a great machine and I have found that there are many, many people currently developing for it using the developer's model. It sounds as if the consumer model will include Hancom's office suite, which looks to be pretty good.

I too wish that there was a PDA running some type of OS X lite or something. Despite what Steve thinks, there are people that want these things. There are a good many Mac users that are developing for the Zaurus and it is expected (but not confirmed yet by a Sharp tech that is checking on it for me) that it will ship with a way to sync to OS X. I'm hoping that someone will release some pkg that makes the Zaurus' OS look aqua-like.

I like the Zaurus a lot but I still haven't made a decision.

Jansar - Not sure I completely understand your post. The Sharp Zaurus PDA will be running Linux.

[geran]

Is there any any pda whit a built in hardrive? If not...WHY????
Why cant apple build me a pda whit a 5g hardrive, built in airport and updated newton OS. I loved my newton so much and I want it back...

Originally posted by seventray:
<STRONG>Well, I've gone a little deeper into the Zaurus. It appears to be a great machine and I have found that there are many, many people currently developing for it using the developer's model. It sounds as if the consumer model will include Hancom's office suite, which looks to be pretty good.

I like the Zaurus a lot but I still haven't made a decision.

</STRONG>

Well. My suggestion is to check over You'r work procees. What will You expect from the device excactly and where?
I did read the Zaurus description and looked at the specs. The device is technically brilliant. If only technical aspects are considered, the only thing where I see the problem is the small screen (320x240 pixels like common nowadays). The problem with Zaurus is outside of the technical part. It's the UI. And if You are UI fan (not Mac fan cause of the Mac, but Mac fan cause of the UI), You will find Zaurus many times more alien as the PocketPC2002.

I personally use two PDA-s.
1. Newton for taking notes on the meetings and quick transfer of the written text to the PC for forwarding with e-mail.
2. HP Jornada for carrying around as an assistant and device to read my e-mails with. It sync's with our Exchange server relatively flawlessly via Nokia 6210.

My suggestion is for You to use devices, that are proven themselves on the market. Throwing the $500 on the wall is not the right way to live. Better send them to me :-)

Well. It's up to You to choose. Last thing I want to say is, that if hating Microsoft makes my life harder, I better use Microsoft.

Regards,
Fan of the products with best user experience from Estonia.

BTW. There are rumors of the new Palm device coming. Considering the buyout of Be together with their engineers some time ago...

Who knows.

[Jansar]

I have this feeling that Apple's iPod is going to be less and less of an mp3 player with the new firmware it's going to get.

[-/-/-enri]

&gt; I want a PDA that I can use to access the internet, email,
&gt; write text documents, play games, listen to MP3's, view
&gt; pictures and movies, etc.

Sounds like you need a SONY Clie 770/760. I've got about the same wishes and really love mine.

InterNet - Blazer
E-mail - Eudora Palm
Text - built in
Play Games - Any PalmOS game soem even in high-res
MP3's - Built-in just need a big stick
Pictures - Built-in high res
Movies - nah, not really, yet

-/-/-enri

[seventray]

ipiloot - Thanks for the advice and I am mostly a Mac-fan because of the user-experience. As far as throwing $500 against the wall, well, it would be better against the wall than in Bill's pocket. Also, I don't feel that "hating" Microsoft makes my life harder. In fact, it makes it much easier because I don't have to deal with the problems associated with their products. I by no means "hate" Microsoft. I have used their products many times, or should at least say that I have attempted to use their products, and I have to deal with Windows on a daily basis at work.

I think the new Palm device will be the update to the 700 series that comes with Bluetooth. I don't think Palm will make any adjustments to their OS and I think that their buyout of BeOS was to gain the employees.

Why do you believe that the Linux OS on the Zaurus will appear foreign to me?

Jansar - I don't think we will see the iPod gain more handheld type functions, especially with Steve's friendship with Palm. After he called Palm onstage at MW, I knew there was no hope of an Apple branded PDA.

enri - I have been looking more at the Palm devices, especially the Sony products. I like them also.

[geran]

I hope palm get a new device out that kicks some ass, the best would be if apple developed the os, i really like newton os...

Check out the nokia communicator 9210. It's the best selling PDA (+phone) in the U.K at the moment.

link
web page

or

web page

[mikithecrackhead]

My support for Handspring product is now dead. They are not making visors anymore and focusing on an expensive and outdated Treo.(by the time they are released in the US Palm, Samsung, Motorolla, Blackberry, and others will have communicators too).
They concept was good (expansion slot/springboard and excellent mac support). But now they are dead. Handspring is now " thrown to a pack of hungry wolves" they will be eaten alive. Sony successfully killed Handspring. (sound familiar, microsoft to apple)Now it's Nokia, Palm, Motorolla, Samsung, Kyocera, Sony again, Sharp etc. Turn to finish them off.

Handspring Cut on their tech support and now offers suckky tech support that you have to pay for. At one time their tech support was great. Good bye Handspring, you guys were almost good. The Concept was good, but you could not keep up with the big boys...

[seventray]

miki - I saw yesterday where Handspring decided they would no longer be involved with the "organizer" market. Maybe the push back on the Treo means that they will make it better?

Communicator - That Nokia looks nice. I'll have to check into it more. Do you know if it will sync easily with a Mac?

[Raman]

Hmm if every Mac user boycotted MSFT then I'm sure Office:Mac would be thrown in the trash, causing Apple to go out of business. If MSFT killed IE for the Mac I think that would be enough to kill Apple completely. You guys don't seriously think that Nutscrape, iCab, etc. even COMBINED have more market share on the Mac than IE.. if you do then go buy a Clie.

Secondly, what kind of idiot would buy a freaking Sony? They use the proprietary memory schtick. That's even worse than Microsoft PocketPC's that have NON-PROPRIETARY CF and SD/MMC cards. Give me a break - do you really think they'll make 802.11b cards for the Clie? Hells no. I'll never buy a Sony product that uses their stupid memory stick. Why do they even have it? Can't they just put the mini-disc and the memory stick out of their misery and admit that there are other alternatives? I don't want to have 5 different memory devices - 1 for each electronic device I own.

PDA vs. iBook: I'd like to see you put a $900 iBook in your pocket or put a belt clip on itand lug it around downtown on your hip. You're comparing apples and oranges. An iBook is a laptop and a PDA is a PDA. They serve 2 different functions. Just because a PDA can do everything an iBook can do is no reason to compare them. Why not just carry around a 50 cent pad of paper and a 25 cent pen? It costs much less than either the iBook and PocketPC and Clie.

Palm's are going down. People, esp now that 802.11b is getting more prevalent, want to do more than enter someone's phone number in a non-connected PDA. With a $99 CF 802.11b card in your PocketPC device, you can surf the web and access your company's VPN with a real web browser, not some stupid "web clipping" Palm. ALl the wireless (even Sprint) offerings for Palm suck. Why? No web browser is good enough.

Linux PDA's: Yeah, great. Show me some applications that are actually useful. Can you even browse the web with it? Just cause I can get Linux to work on your girlfriend's dildo doesn't make it a better dildo.

[Raman]

Also, if it's acceories you want, no one has more out and in the pipeline than HP. And they are *reasonable* prices.

I'll add another thing about value: About 6 years ago (I think) I got a Newton. Don't remember which one it was but it was around $700. I returned it after a few days cause it wasn't worth no $700 in 1995. $700 then was worth more than it is now. Considering a $600 PocketPC can run circles around other PDA's that cost the same, I'd say that it's not such a bad deal.

All the things you want to do with your PDA, you aint going to be able to do [cheap] on the Clie. Granted it has a beautiful screen but it's still a PalmOS underneath. Palm OS wasn't built to do multimedia and things that you want. You want a PC that you can carry around in your pocket. You don't want a addressbook/memobook/etc.. but if that's all you need, you can get a good Palm3x on eBay for cheap.

[bender]

Originally posted by mikithecrackhead:
<STRONG>My support for Handspring product is now dead. They are not making visors anymore and focusing on an expensive and outdated Treo.(by the time they are released in the US Palm, Samsung, Motorolla, Blackberry, and others will have communicators too).
They concept was good (expansion slot/springboard and excellent mac support). But now they are dead. Handspring is now " thrown to a pack of hungry wolves" they will be eaten alive. Sony successfully killed Handspring. (sound familiar, microsoft to apple)Now it's Nokia, Palm, Motorolla, Samsung, Kyocera, Sony again, Sharp etc. Turn to finish them off.

Handspring Cut on their tech support and now offers suckky tech support that you have to pay for. At one time their tech support was great. Good bye Handspring, you guys were almost good. The Concept was good, but you could not keep up with the big boys...</STRONG>

Hmm...and Handspring stock is up over 200% since last November?

Jeff Hawkins invented the original Palm Pilot, but he's a visionary who sees that standalone organizers are not the future. My guess is that Handspring will become the next Nokia with their Treo-based wireless devices. I can't imagine who would want a cell phone/personal organizer small enough to fit in a pocket...except maybe everyone! Or maybe I'm just ecstatic since I bought their stock when it was at $2.00.

You're right about the Visor's though...there haven't been any decent Visor's released since the Edge. They'll leave that market to Sony and others who can afford lots of R&D for profitless devices.

[seventray]

Raman - There is just so much that I think is wrong with your recent posts. I will say that when the Apple/Microsoft deal is over soon, we'll see if Apple survives. I also feel that many use Microsoft's Mac version of Office because they feel they have to.

Concerning your questions about the Zaurus, it is very capable of browsing the web. Actually, it uses the Opera browser, which many feel is a much better browser than the PocketPC version of IE. In other areas of software, I do know that there are many apps being developed for the Zaurus each day. One that is expected to be included with the Zaurus is the Hancom Office suite that I spoke earlier about, which is also considered superior to what is offered on PocketPC's.

It is obvious that you haven't even looked into the Zaurus. I must ask, do you even own a Mac? If so, how do you sync your PocketPC?

[osiris]

I just picked up a Visor prism with a Visorphone - this thing is amazing. I set my network to my isp account and use Blazer to browse the internet in color with decent speed. It's amazing and great for email, browsing the forums..

For stuff like word docs, the Prism came with a MS word compatible program called Wordsmith (well, actually .rtf format) - so I can write too. There are even little keyboards out there, but learning graffiti is very easy and fast to use.

It also came with Gmovie for making movie files with sound and color, but the sound is horrible. There are a lot of modules like mp3 players with seperate audio, remote controls, gps...

The future of Visor may be questionable, but for my money I felt I couldn't beat their deal of $300 for a color pda & visorphone + the ability to be totally wireless. Maybe a couple of years worth?

I'd really like an Apple pda, but that's a dream.

[mikithecrackhead]

Handspring's Stock may be up, for now. If they are putting all their chips on this Treo project, they better address some issues when they release their product. Issue #1 They waited too long in introducing the treo(?still not available?). Palm is already preparing to launch their product, Kyocera, and Samsung are already establishing themselves in handsprings' treo potential market, So is the Blackberry pager. #2 Price. $400 for monochrome and $600 for color #3 It is currently not CDMA or #G ready, GSM is almost useless in the US.

[mikithecrackhead]

I've heard of Pocketmac to sync pocket PCs with mac, i think it's the same folks that make a conduit for sony.

miki - I saw yesterday where Handspring decided they would no longer be involved with the "organizer" market. Maybe the push back on the Treo means that they will make it better?

Yeah I saw that, the visor is dead
I think Raman needs a hug
The nokia phone, looks weird, maybe it will look better live. Between Sharp and Samsung, they are becoming very established in the Communicator dept. Those that do not sync with macs might sync with Virtual PC, is there an Ir port available for macs? Possibly a portable IR port to carry around with an ibook that way any PDA with IR can sync with a mac? Both the Kyocera and the Samsung phone come with IR.

there is a Helio PDA that is no longer being produced that can operate the Linux OS. I did a search on E bay and they are selling for about $50

PalmOS5

Look's promising

Article here

[Raman]

Originally posted by seventray:
<STRONG>Raman - There is just so much that I think is wrong with your recent posts. I will say that when the Apple/Microsoft deal is over soon, we'll see if Apple survives. I also feel that many use Microsoft's Mac version of Office because they feel they have to.

Concerning your questions about the Zaurus, it is very capable of browsing the web. Actually, it uses the Opera browser, which many feel is a much better browser than the PocketPC version of IE. In other areas of software, I do know that there are many apps being developed for the Zaurus each day. One that is expected to be included with the Zaurus is the Hancom Office suite that I spoke earlier about, which is also considered superior to what is offered on PocketPC's.

It is obvious that you haven't even looked into the Zaurus. I must ask, do you even own a Mac? If so, how do you sync your PocketPC?</STRONG>

I used to own a pismo up until a few weeks ago. my g/f and i use her ibook. for the money, there's no better macintosh.

i don't own a pocketpc but i have been doing *heavy* research into them and have ordered a jp jornada thru dell for about $100 cheaper than i can get it in my local computer/office superstore.

i sold my palm3x on ebay. it did what it did very well. but that's about it. and for $500 i'd rather spend my money on somehting that is little more than the equivalent of a few pieces of paper.

i don't like using anything that has very low market share like the zaurus. if business doesn't use it then you know there's not going to be any support for it down the line and there will be a niche marketplace for the unit... and if the company doesn't even have enough money to buy their own damn domain name then what do you think's going to happen to them down the line? sharp.com? cmon.. i can't even find their main website on google. all i see is the sharp developer program. like the rex, the sharp is going to be a niche product. i wonder why the hardware looks very similar to a pocket pc?? hmmmm..

handspring and palm are losing marketshare to the pocketpc. yeah, i know its microsoft but dollars don't lie.

some of want a device that is more than a little toy.

[Raman]

Originally posted by mikithecrackhead:
<STRONG>
I think Raman needs a hug </STRONG>

Right back at cha...

[seventray]

Thanks for the reply Raman. I understand your concerns about little marketshare, but may I ask how you expect a machine that has not been released yet to even have marketshare? If you look to markets where the Zaurus is released, such as Japan, it is the most popular handheld. Also, if you feel so passionate about staying away from "niche" products, why do you use a Mac? Even Steve knows that the Mac is a niche product, because there are few who are willing to research and purchase the best. Finally, I don't quite understand this motto in consumer electronics that states, "If everybody else doesn't have it, then it must not be good." Remember that a very small percentage of the population has an IQ that is one standard deviation above the mean. I guess 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.

Oh, Raman, if you search a little harder, I believe you will be able to find Sharp's website. Try this: http://www.sharpusa.com

[mikithecrackhead]

Let the "communicator/phone/ PDA price war begin";

I was just at 2 different Staples stores in Western New England and they both had the Kyocera Smart Phone for $179. There didn't seem to be a gimmick or anything attached to the deal. Just sprint PCS service.

I am on my way to another Staples location by University of Massachusetts to see if they have the same Promo there too. The two Stores visited where at Staples Enfield, Connecticut and Staple West Springfield, Ma. ( I audit some stores in different shoping centers and sometimes "my attention drifts away and i actually shop!" )

[Group51]

Originally posted by mikithecrackhead:
<STRONG>Handspring's Stock may be up, for now. If they are putting all their chips on this Treo project, they better address some issues when they release their product. Issue #1 They waited too long in introducing the treo(?still not available?). Palm is already preparing to launch their product, Kyocera, and Samsung are already establishing themselves in handsprings' treo potential market, So is the Blackberry pager. #2 Price. $400 for monochrome and $600 for color #3 It is currently not CDMA or #G ready, GSM is almost useless in the US.</STRONG>

And of course, the US has the biggest mobile phone market. Ha ha ha ha!

I think the Phone/PDA thing could deliver some very un-compelling products. If Jeff Hawkins thinks I want to stick a big palm III to my ear he has another thing coming.

Why not (as famously said) let each element be true to itself. Let the PDA be a PDA, with a Blue-tooth handset. The handset only needs the audio bits, battery, blue tooth and a very basic LCD for phone book access. Everything else can be done on the PDA. You could even do different variants of the handset for fashion purposes.

[Group51]

Originally posted by Raman:
<STRONG>
.. and if the company doesn't even have enough money to buy their own damn domain name then what do you think's going to happen to them down the line? sharp.com? cmon.. i can't even find their main website on google. all i see is the sharp developer program. like the rex, the sharp is going to be a niche product. i wonder why the hardware looks very similar to a pocket pc?? hmmmm..
</STRONG>

Um, you've never heard of Sharp?
http://sharp-world.com/index.html

Well it seems that western world should open their eyes again. I recently moved to States and people here seem to be all too unaware of things happening outside the borders. Wake UP! There is life beyond USA and more intelligent than in here.

The biggest (digital) mobile phone market is not in the United States, it is in the China. United states is sooooo late in the mobile phone business. You can't even send SMS messages (everywhere) in the US. And the Biggest phonecompanies come from scandinavia (nokia, former ericcsonSony) with a population est. 13 million. Jeezz...

We are so lame here in States. Analog is so old-school and not even cool. Why are they still hanging on it in here? Nobody has it anymore in Europe.

Communicator: Yeah baby! Your links are cool. Communicator model was invented by nokia in the mid 90's. at the same time Newton was around. I wish it would work properly in the States 'cause I heard that they are making Mac drivers (entourage, word, etc.) fo the machine. Got to get one, if the drivers come as planned in spring '02.

Nokia and Apple. Join together!

Originally posted by &lt;NOKIAusa&gt;:
<STRONG>Well it seems that western world should open their eyes again. I recently moved to States and people here seem to be all too unaware of things happening outside the borders. Wake UP! There is life beyond USA and more intelligent than in here.</STRONG>

Actually we hear it's so great overseas and everything. And when the companies want to bring it here there's all these hurdles. We know that Japan and some European countries enjoy their wireless capabilities like we do Starbucks on every corner here.

It's not like we're ignorant of it, but when you can't get it back in the states (within a reasonable time period) then why spend your time looking at it. I mean look at CES. They showed off a bunch of gadgets that are probaly ready to use overseas. Here? Ha. We dont' even have 100% cellular coverage in the US. I'd like to see free (or low priced) 802.11b access at every major US airport and every major hotel chain. Aint gonna happen. I was about to subscribe to the starbucks 802.11b plan until i heard the company that was providing the network services about to go belly-up. What? All it is is a dsl or cablemodem connection and say the capability to serve like 50 wireless connections. is that so hard or costly????

Originally posted by seventray:
<STRONG> Also, if you feel so passionate about staying away from "niche" products, why do you use a Mac? [/URL]</STRONG>

As soon as my g/f ditches her iBook we're out until Apple can price their products better and actually have support from companies. I can't believe OSX has received such little support from companies. Changing everything from 10.0.x to 10.1 didn't help. You can thank Apple for that. One reason I'll never develop software for the Mac is because Apple treats their development (i.e. people that support the platform so much that they think they can make a living off it - it's a little more serious than people that run M$ office and IE on their mac and read macNN and consider themselves Apple supporters) like $hit.

Anyway, this isn't a holy war. Apple doesn't even make a PDA (well..) so I don't see what the big deal is. You use what you want and I'll use my Jornada, which by the way, I don't have to get all new accessories for (thank you HP) when upgrading from older Jornadas.

BTW.. I found sharp's website. I just think it's funny that sharp.com goes to some small time medical business.

Originally posted by Group51:
<STRONG>

Um, you've never heard of Sharp?
http://sharp-world.com/index.html</STRONG>

Oh I get it.. like microsoft-world.com and apple-world.com and hp-world.com and sony-world.com

I guess it's the new thing. Who wants their company name to be their domain name, anyway?

[Deal]

I like my Palm Tungsten T3

I have not tried if for MP3's as I have an iPod, but it can do it.

Photo's look great and I love the expandable screen.

Graffiti 2 is nice (but it took some unlearning)

Go somewhere that you can get your hands on them and kick the tires.

Be sure to check out the T3. I wish people could spend a day with one of these. I have had mine for about 2 weeks and already 2 other people I know have gotten one and another is going to (if he hasn't already).